minigun762 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Q: Is being protected against 1 of the 6 possible damage results worth a 43% increase in the price of your transport? My A: No, its not. I'd rather spend those points on buying more Rhinos or an extra vehicle. Sure if I have 15 points leftover and nothing else to spend it on, it might be a valid upgrade. What does the rest of the group think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I feel Extra armor was great at the old cost. Now, not worth it. I use it on Dreads only, and then only if they are close combat centered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2203231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus de Mortalis Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 It would be worth it if you could still assault out of rhinos! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2203237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 If its got an HQ unit in it.... maybe, yeah. But most people put their HQs in landraiders, or DPs, or slog them... rather than rhinos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2203239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepstrike Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 you will miss them when you cant contest because you are too far away Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2203326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I say no. It VERY rarely makes a difference on my LRs, let alone my Rhinos. I'd rather put that extra 15 points towards another Rhino. Yeah, occasionally, it bites me, but for every one game where it does, there are 10 others where that 15 points made a difference as a Combi-Weapon, SS, part of a PF, or a whole host of other upgrades. TBH, 9 out of 10 times, I'd rather take that 15 points and put dozer blades on 3 Rhinos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2203380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontline989 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Though im no expert I cant see how a transport that cant move is beneficial. Even after deploying the troops it can still be used to block LOS or to tank shock. I'll have to play some games myself before Im sure though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2203426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
waaanial00 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Though im no expert I cant see how a transport that cant move is beneficial. Even after deploying the troops it can still be used to block LOS or to tank shock. I'll have to play some games myself before Im sure though. Its not that it isnt a great upgrade, just is it worth the points value that it is now in the codex. I know many Chaos players who use it because their contents are a lot more deadly. I suppose it depends on how critical the contents are. I really want to put extra armour on my Rhinos but given the Mech is usually a smaller army anyway, throwing an extra cost onto the transport which is as likely to get destroyed by most anti armour weapons than get shaken/stunned (still cant remember what the labels are after 3+ years!) just seems like extra bulk and it usually gets removed. Wan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2203470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkKnightCuron Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Just from personal experience, Extra armor can be vital when playing against certain armies. I'm going to use 'Tau' as an example here: Their basic weaponry can glance your Rhinos. As a Tau player, I've won (read, handily won) games against Space Marines (and all flavors thereof) simply because I kept stunning my enemy's Rhinos. Had they point forward the points for Extra Armor, that would not have happened, and likely I would have lost a lot of those games. Extra armor affords you a kind of mobility needed in order to get your forces where they need to go. Without placement and position, you can't take advantage of your marines' strengths. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2203478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 waste of points, rhinos are just coffins to get 12" closer in 1 turn and pop smoke, if they do anything after that then great, but don't go spending enough points to buy another marine who would be far more useful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2203652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I use my Rhinos as moving shields basically, I see no need for extra armour at that price - mounted marines or otherwise. + the special repair rule is quite handy for what extra armour doesn't cover. Barebone Rhinos are a steal. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2203659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I think EA isn't worth it for the rhino. IMHO, it was a dumb idea to give a general extra armor cost (it costs the same whether you buy it for a rhino or for a land raider). Cheaper vehicles should get cheaper extra armor, so it would remain viable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2203662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Not worthit at the current cost, IMO. Given the choice between the available Rhino upgrades, I'd take a Hunter-Killer missile or an additional stormbolter before I took extra armor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2203707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted December 3, 2009 Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 I think EA isn't worth it for the rhino. IMHO, it was a dumb idea to give a general extra armor cost (it costs the same whether you buy it for a rhino or for a land raider). Cheaper vehicles should get cheaper extra armor, so it would remain viable. Thats a good idea really. I believe that E. Armor is worth it on something like a Land Raider, because proportionately, its a minor increase in the overall cost of the unit (6% or something like that). But when its nearly a 50% increase in the cost of your transport, its alot less viable. Hell I'd probably even consider it at 10 points, but if they kept it at 5 for Rhinos, 10 for Dreads/Predators/Vindicators and 15 for Land Raiders that would be much more appropriate I believe. I know that for the cost of 1 E. Armor, I could buy 3 of my Rhinos an extra TL'd Bolter and most of the time, I'd rather double 3 of my transports firepower over partially protecting 1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2203777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I think EA isn't worth it for the rhino. IMHO, it was a dumb idea to give a general extra armor cost (it costs the same whether you buy it for a rhino or for a land raider). Cheaper vehicles should get cheaper extra armor, so it would remain viable. Thats a good idea really. I believe that E. Armor is worth it on something like a Land Raider, because proportionately, its a minor increase in the overall cost of the unit (6% or something like that). But when its nearly a 50% increase in the cost of your transport, its alot less viable. Hell I'd probably even consider it at 10 points, but if they kept it at 5 for Rhinos, 10 for Dreads/Predators/Vindicators and 15 for Land Raiders that would be much more appropriate I believe. I know that for the cost of 1 E. Armor, I could buy 3 of my Rhinos an extra TL'd Bolter and most of the time, I'd rather double 3 of my transports firepower over partially protecting 1. This is true, and technicly how it should be. But if they did that they would also have to extend it to weapons. A power fist is worth more on a 3A 6WS I5 Captain than on a 2A 4WS I4 serg (though this is ballanced by IC rules in CC). A plamsma pistol is woth more to a BS5 guy than a BS4 guy. It would make them have to realy think and test all the combinations. Which is work and effort. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2204253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Is extra armor valuable to put on every Rhino - heck no....and it shouldn't be. That was the biggest problem with extra armor before is that is was so darn cheap that it was a no-brainer option. I do put it on a single Rhino (or a pair at most) that screen my other Rhinos as they advance - but not always. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2204324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 EA is suffering from Devastator syndrome, since everyone used it all the time with no concern they hiked the prices so eldar felt their spirit stones were worth something. 15pts for a rhino is steep, I mean thats 3 melta bombs to me or 1 melta bomb and a HK (both of which do a far better job than EA). On a land raider it is a good idea, keep that train moving no matter what, dreads it's good because often dreads preform rolling fire support or CC back up and while it is still a little dear, when a glancing tables results are reduced to only 3 results instead of 4 (and penetrating becomes 5) I think it can be quite useful however rhinos are 'give' tanks, they run up and kamikaze into enemy units. Unless you know your opponent likes death or glory, extra armour on rhinos, razors and preds is useless (well preds can use it somewhat but not alot). Oh and I will say that putting cronus into a phobos pattern land raider with all the trimmings (bar extra armour) is nasty, expensive but putting out a hail of BS5 goodness from an armoured hull is priceless! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2204347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 This is true, and technicly how it should be. But if they did that they would also have to extend it to weapons. A power fist is worth more on a 3A 6WS I5 Captain than on a 2A 4WS I4 serg (though this is ballanced by IC rules in CC). A plamsma pistol is woth more to a BS5 guy than a BS4 guy. It would make them have to realy think and test all the combinations. Which is work and effort. Nah, I wouldn't extend this to all weapons. A BS5 model already costs more then a BS4 model pointswise, so it's alright that they both pay the same points for the weapon, since the BS5 model has already paid the points for the higher BS. However, in certain units, item prices really should be smaller. For example, I can't understand why vanguard, who are supposed to be the PA assault specialist unit, pay the same cost for their power swords and power fists as HQs do. It's totally retarded, seeing as they're supposed to have easier access to these things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2204506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus de Mortalis Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Yeah, I really hate the 5th edition codex too. Roboute Guilliman is rolling in his grave. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2204547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Yeah, I really hate the 5th edition codex too. Roboute Guilliman is rolling in his grave. I beg to differ. Apart from the few stupid things such as the extra armor, and the inefficiency of generic HQs compared to SCs, the 5th ed codex absolutely rocks. I love it a lot. :rolleyes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2204562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus de Mortalis Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Yeah, I really hate the 5th edition codex too. Roboute Guilliman is rolling in his grave. I beg to differ. Apart from the few stupid things such as the extra armor, and the inefficiency of generic HQs compared to SCs, the 5th ed codex absolutely rocks. I love it a lot. :P Other than lowering the cost of assault marines, bikes, and sniper rifles to be more in line with their actual abilities, I think most of the rest was a step in the wrong direction. I think it boils down to oversimplifying the codex so that both little johnny and his grandma can play 40k too. Besides the special characters, GW really shot each and every man in power armor with their feet on the ground, in the face with a volcano cannon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2204619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Back on topic, please. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2204649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justicar Valius Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Well for me its 10% so its well worth the cost. Nowdays deffinitely no Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2206222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Chaos_Brute Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Not worth it IMO. A rhino is a "Marine Protection Box". Nothing more, nothing less. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2206493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Yeah... today pretty much confirmed by belief that 5 Point Dozer Blades >>>>>>> 15 Point Extra Armor on Rhinos/Razorbacks. I had a Razorback with DB in my list and it was the MVP of a game, simply because it could was able to navigate some pretty dense terrain to get to an objective with little fear of getting immobilized. As many DT tests as I had to take, I don't think I could have taken that route had without it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186309-the-value-of-extra-armor-on-rhinos/#findComment-2206500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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