A different take on bike squads.

[Deus de Mortalis]

Ok, I'm thinking about these bikers as troops and I haven't seen anything on here like it, but maybe I missed something. The squad is 5 men with a power fist and two flamers. It tops out at only 175 points, is super fast, objective taking, is great versus horde, seems to be an ideal vehicle for the delivery of a power fist, and is pretty cheap without an attack bike and only flamers. I think a couple of these plus a captain on bike would be excellent in assault. The power fist is also the best weapon against most vehicles. I think it is a great all-round unit for its price. Also there are plenty of ablative wounds and the flamers are only 5 points so who cares? This might also be good with chaos bikes because it isn't like there is much else they have to compete with for fast attack slots. They only cost a little more for a 5 man squad to get a lot more attacks in close combat. A 4 man chaos biker squad might work just as well too. This is all theoretical because none of my bikes are even half way built yet and I've never used bikers other than a chaplain back in third edition. What do you guys think about using the bikes in this way or are there any others ways than the standard meltagun mayhem?

[Grey Mage]

Its not bad, Id also consider:

 

4 Bikes+Attack Bike- Meltagun, Multimelta, Powerweapon- 190pts. Good for tank hunting, and can assault a unit if it just popped the transport.

[Frater Marcus Scipio]

Its not bad, Id also consider:

 

4 Bikes+Attack Bike- Meltagun, Multimelta, Powerweapon- 190pts. Good for tank hunting, and can assault a unit if it just popped the transport.

 

The challenge with the power weapons on bikes is that the power weapon replaces the bolt pistol and therfore takes away the +1 attk from having the two weapons. I think this has a significant negative impact on the PW and makes me always pay the extra pts for the power fist.

[ShinyRhino]

The challenge with the power weapons on bikes is that the power weapon replaces the bolt pistol and therfore takes away the +1 attk from having the two weapons. I think this has a significant negative impact on the PW and makes me always pay the extra pts for the power fist.

 

I run one of each, and it's really a juggling act. On the one hand, you have those huge S8 hits from the powerfist, but they strike at I1. With only 5 bodies, there's a good chance you have to roll saves against the powerfist before it swings, and may lose it.

With a power weapon, you get the same number of attacks at half the strength, but will more than likely get all those attacks off before or at the same time as your opponent. This version of the sergeant at least gets to swing before he dies.

 

IMO, there's no reason you should be relying on power weapons to kill with bikers. Bikers are not good in close combat, unless you've attached their captain to the squad, or are using a Biker Command Squad (sooo expensive!). Bikes assault to mop up after shooting, or to lock in with numerous weak foes to avoid being shot at (IG and Tau). You really shouldn't rely on power weapons or fists as part of your main battle plan with bikers. The special weapns and the loadout of the attack bike are far more important to you.

 

The powerfist IS helpful for attacking non-transport armor. Don't assault walkers, though. The DCCWs will rip your bikers apart, and your chances for a kill with the fist against AV12 aren't worth the losses you'll incur trying. It's also best to shoot transports instead of assaulting them. Assaulting a Chimera might sound like a free kill, but remember that the squad inside pops out and blasts you in the next turn. Leave the assaults against vehicles for gun platforms like Vindicators, Preds, Hammerheads, etc.

[Deus de Mortalis]

I run one of each, and it's really a juggling act. On the one hand, you have those huge S8 hits from the powerfist, but they strike at I1. With only 5 bodies, there's a good chance you have to roll saves against the powerfist before it swings, and may lose it.

With a power weapon, you get the same number of attacks at half the strength, but will more than likely get all those attacks off before or at the same time as your opponent. This version of the sergeant at least gets to swing before he dies.

 

IMO, there's no reason you should be relying on power weapons to kill with bikers. Bikers are not good in close combat, unless you've attached their captain to the squad, or are using a Biker Command Squad (sooo expensive!). Bikes assault to mop up after shooting, or to lock in with numerous weak foes to avoid being shot at (IG and Tau). You really shouldn't rely on power weapons or fists as part of your main battle plan with bikers. The special weapns and the loadout of the attack bike are far more important to you.

 

The powerfist IS helpful for attacking non-transport armor. Don't assault walkers, though. The DCCWs will rip your bikers apart, and your chances for a kill with the fist against AV12 aren't worth the losses you'll incur trying. It's also best to shoot transports instead of assaulting them. Assaulting a Chimera might sound like a free kill, but remember that the squad inside pops out and blasts you in the next turn. Leave the assaults against vehicles for gun platforms like Vindicators, Preds, Hammerheads, etc.

 

Well my idea is to use two of these squads in unison with a captain, multi-melta attack bike squad, and multi-melta land speeder squad. Each bike squad can engage non-walker, non-transport armor and soft troops all on their own. For walkers of course I would try the attack bikes on them, and if at least that DCCW is destroyed I could assault that with one or both bike squads. If it is immobilized I could ignore it or maybe assault it with the bikes and maybe the captain with a melta bomb, or just use some other unit to try to engage it. For transports the attack bikes could try to pop them, followed up by an assault including the captain, or one of the bike squads can bust open the transport with the fist, hopefully survive the assault, and then I can charge in with the other bikes and/or captain. I know I'm also going to have a 10 man assault squad that can try to keep up with the bikes and lock into CC to spare the bikes.

 

I just want to keep away from a multi-melta attack bike because that is 50 points, a huge blow to the bike squad if it is lost, and I'm trying to keep these squads cheap. You also need to get close for the multi-melta to really work its magic against vehicles and even closer for meltaguns. It sounds like it is just begging to be assaulted. I know an extra 35 points doesn't sound like a lot for the extra weapons, but to me it just sounds like the squad got a lot more fragile because of increased attention from the enemy, my needing to keep out of CC for extra cost to be any good, and the higher cost of the squad if it is lost.

[Resv]

Bikes are great in assault! I don't know why players constantly look down upon this particular unit as being complete crap in this area T4(5) and a +3 same is really useful. Bikes are amazing anti-infantry units the crux of it though, they are great in assault because their shooting is so good. A full squad of bikes with attack bike is 18 twin-linked bolter shots. You can add 2 special weapon shots (4 if Plasma Guns are involved) and what ever you have on your Attack Bike in lue of bolters. This leads to a staggering amount of fire from one unit that is both powerful due to special weapons and accurate due to the Twin-Linked Bolters. Relentless is an amazing trait to have on such a fast unit.

 

After a solid round of shooting judge how much damage you caused at your targeted unit. If you scored enough initial wounds assaulting could go pretty easily with not much fuss. Yes, secret power fists or power weapons will always be an issue but it is the same for any unit of Non-Elite/HQ assault units. If that sucks for you then I suggest that you check out Death Wing and run an all Terminator list, power weapons a plenty. You may be surprised at how well your bikes fair against a weakened unit. Even if the assault doesn't succeed you still got them out of being shot at. Power Fists make the most sense on Biker Sergents as they do replace the bolt pistol which wouldn't do you any good regardless if your Sergent was on foot or a bike. However I still like a power weapon, true you don't get an additional attack, but it hits at initiative and that can make all the difference against low initiative high strength units.

 

As for units of 5 Bikes I have a real hesitation using them. I understand that they are cheap but all in all you might be better served by taking a full unit with an Attack Bike and combat squading them when you see fit. That way you have an excellent fire support unit and also a counter assault unit should your forward unit of bikes get bogged down. However, in an assault unit I don't know if I would run in with only 5 wounds and expect magic. Units like this may only act as speed bump units slowing down your opponent's advance but not really dominating in their intended purpose. You should always get out there and try your ideas though! Be bold and make a few mistakes, lose a few games, and see what happens. You might come up with killer tactics that you can share with us.

[Sanctjud]

@Resv:

It's not that they are crap in combat.

 

The issue you are presenting is 'the best offense is a good defense'...but at the end of the day, the raw CLOSE COMBAT damage they do is very low.

Now it's not to say they are not going to do anything in combat.

Just, combat should not be the first thing that you want to go for when you get bikers.

 

They are a flexible unit, and you pay for it. make no mistake they are still pricey for what you get.

 

_______________-

 

I personally like large squads.....BUUUTTT.

 

I suggest using the search function a little more.... there are at least a handful of good and long threads about bikers.... most of what I've seen is the same stuff.

 

My 7 Cents.

[ShinyRhino]

@Resv:

It's not that they are crap in combat.

 

The issue you are presenting is 'the best offense is a good defense'...but at the end of the day, the raw CLOSE COMBAT damage they do is very low.

Now it's not to say they are not going to do anything in combat.

Just, combat should not be the first thing that you want to go for when you get bikers.

 

They are a flexible unit, and you pay for it. make no mistake they are still pricey for what you get.

 

Exactly. The softening up of a unit via shooting is reat and all, but to get the benefit of it, you have to be in rapid fire range., whichyou will be if you're in your 6" charge range (duh!). But what happens if you bork your rolls to wound, or the enemy somehow pulls through your shooting with good armor or cover saves?

You're stuck HAVING to charge, because to not do so results in you getting lit up with return fire, or charged by the very unit you shot at.

They CAN get stuck in combat for a good, long time, but every lucky casualty your opponent scores is still going to hurt a lot due to lack of effective bodies in your squads.

 

 

I personally like large squads.....BUUUTTT.

 

I suggest using the search function a little more.... there are at least a handful of good and long threads about bikers.... most of what I've seen is the same stuff.

 

My 7 Cents.

 

I think the multitude of threads on bikers comes from bike players' willingness to extoll the virtues of the unit. Iknow I love talking about them ;)

[Resv]

I guess the "good offense=good defense" is my overall point. The raw CLOSE COMBAT damage they do is about on par with a full tactical squad if you were to take a power fist (I think they have 1 less attack due to the attack bike). This is their raw close combat, in a vacuum with nothing else. Now I don't know about other people but I don't play in a vacuum, I find it very hard to breath.

 

I agree though that if you screw up your shooting rolls you are going to have a bad day! Also my assaults usually focus on units damaged in the shooting phase. It also is contingent on what your opponent is playing. I might be a little more bold get into CC against guard rather than Plague Marines but that goes with out saying. As Rhino said when your only option is that you have to charge then it can really suck. These are expensive units and they hurt to lose.

 

My overall point is that you shouldn't completely avoid close combat with bikes. They can lay down a lot of hurt and can be effective in both rounds of combat. A unit of Standard Bikers should NEVER be thought of as a dedicated close combat unit, at least in my army, but they are not at all wasted in Close Combat. I have had lots of success using my bikes this way but I lost a lot of games getting my strategy and tactics down.

 

MOST IMPORTANTLY! Your Meta game may be completely different than mine and any advice we give here might be completely off the mark in your local area of play. The best thing you can do with any tactic or stratagem is to try it out for yourself. Take chances, make some mistakes, and lose a few games.

[Rage]

I run a bog standard 4 + 1 MMAB with a PW on the sergeant these days, they are fine for beating on small 5 man heavy weapon SM squads...just stay clear of any that even remotely says Power in the title. I don't bother with the meltagun anymore as it's only really effective at blowing tanks from within 6", well within pain range if it all goes horribly wrong, I prefer to keep them further out unless I have a damn good reason for getting close, the death of a tank that I can gang up on with Multi-Meltas is not a good enough reason.

 

I think people look at people get hung up on the Power Armour meta game (with good reason I might add) and see that Tacs and Bike Squads just can't do the job and write them off. If you think about it though against more squashy infantry (low toughness or poor armour) they can actually do some damage.

 

Another point is that bikes are fast enough to be able to organise multiple charges against a target, increasing the number of PW's in the assault. Bike squads are much more wolfy than Space Wolves, they need to hunt as a pack to take down the big targets. The same thing applies though to bikes as wolves, you need to wear the prey down before you go in for the kill else you might get a fatal injury. Which is pretty much what Resv alluded to by only attacking softened up targets from shooting.

[Vissah]

I use Chaos Bikers myself and Im thinking of switching form two meltas to two flamers but I really dont see any good use for the flamers.

Can you maybe tell me how you plan on using them with those flamers since you need to be really up close to use them.

 

How about giving them two Plasmaguns, it is dangerous cause of overheating but it makes the beest use of there relentless rule.