Verseau Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 hi i know this has been questioned before, but when i search it, i can't found it so i forced to ask it again, sorry If ragnar joined in with blood claw pack, how many attacks ragnar get on assault ??? and how many attacks BC pack get on assault ??? thx Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravelybravesirrobin Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Ragnar's rule replaces the BC's rule. so they would get +D3 attacks, as would he. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2203375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderpup Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Which is bad fyi. The claws end up with a 33% chance of LOSING an attack, 33% chance of getting thier normal attacks, and only a 33% chance of gaining one extra attack on the charge. Bad odds imho. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2203552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Which is bad fyi. The claws end up with a 33% chance of LOSING an attack, 33% chance of getting thier normal attacks, and only a 33% chance of gaining one extra attack on the charge. Bad odds imho. I don't like it either, but the benefit of Furious Charge does help offset the potential loss of any attacks. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2203666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Which is bad fyi. The claws end up with a 33% chance of LOSING an attack, 33% chance of getting thier normal attacks, and only a 33% chance of gaining one extra attack on the charge. Bad odds imho. I agree here. Better to attach Ragnar to Wolf Guard units or Grey Hunters where the worst case scenario is no improvement in number of attacks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2203671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Aye, he's pretty useful leading power armoured WG out of a drop pod. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2204028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verseau Posted December 4, 2009 Author Share Posted December 4, 2009 Aye, he's pretty useful leading power armoured WG out of a drop pod. how about he's leading terminator armor WG out of drop pod ??? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2204488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 It just feels....right having him lead Blood claws though. However thunderpup has put the statistics up there. Doesnt look too pretty in the harsh light of day. *Ponders power armoured Wolf guard* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2204504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 what is wrong with GH? mixed with the ability of the Wolf standard, gives the chance for even more cc nastiness Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2204512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 what is wrong with GH? mixed with the ability of the Wolf standard, gives the chance for even more cc nastiness Nothing wrong with it at all; works great. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2204539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravelybravesirrobin Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 2 attacks +D3 + Furious charge with ragnar, wolf standard, p-fist, MotW and maybe PW is dirt cheap for the nasty it provides. Shame about the Land Raider you need to make it work which bumps up the pts considerably but every SW army needs 1 big killy unit and Ragnar +GH will do the job nicely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2204542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 2 attacks +D3 + Furious charge with ragnar, wolf standard, p-fist, MotW and maybe PW is dirt cheap for the nasty it provides. Shame about the Land Raider you need to make it work which bumps up the pts considerably but every SW army needs 1 big killy unit and Ragnar +GH will do the job nicely. BBSR, Don't really need a Land Raider; Drop Pod can deliver them just fine usually. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2204546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravelybravesirrobin Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 2 attacks +D3 + Furious charge with ragnar, wolf standard, p-fist, MotW and maybe PW is dirt cheap for the nasty it provides. Shame about the Land Raider you need to make it work which bumps up the pts considerably but every SW army needs 1 big killy unit and Ragnar +GH will do the job nicely. BBSR, Don't really need a Land Raider; Drop Pod can deliver them just fine usually. V How do you ensure they get to charge? They need to charge to work, if I were playing against this unit (say with my orks) and someone drop podded them in it would be priority A1 for my shooting and would almost certainly get charged. i'm not an idiot and I'm not going to let that thing rampage through my army. Drop Pods are for shooty units and units that don't need to charge to work in cc (WG, GH's). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2204550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coverfire Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 what is wrong with GH? mixed with the ability of the Wolf standard, gives the chance for even more cc nastiness Fluff wise, Ragnar always preferred fighting alongside a unit of Blood Claws. Game wise, Ragnar fighting with Grey Hunters is the best option for him, better even than Wolf Guard in my opinion and that is because of the Wolf Standard that the Grey Hunters can use and because points wise stacking Ragnar with Wolf Guard is putting (to paraphrase an annoying but very relevant proverb) too many eggs into a single basket. Despite knowing what is the better option however, I do prefer to field him with Blood Claws. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2204739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Aye, he's pretty useful leading power armoured WG out of a drop pod. how about he's leading terminator armor WG out of drop pod ??? Terminator Armor takes up alot of room- so fewer bodies means less attacks and less benefit from furious charge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2204746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Aye, he's pretty useful leading power armoured WG out of a drop pod. how about he's leading terminator armor WG out of drop pod ??? Terminator Armor takes up alot of room- so fewer bodies means less attacks and less benefit from furious charge. GM, It's less total attacks from regular weapons, but having all SCCWs on your Terminators makes up for having less bodies. Right now I've got two options that I like for Ragnar: attached to Grey Hunters or with Wolf Guard Terminators, either coming out of a Pod. BBSR, The unit is better when it gets the charge, but it's not essential; you've just got to play your Pods smartly, as always. DV8 runs a single Pod in his mostly mech force. His Pod has 7 Hunters, Arjac, and Ragnar, and he has had good success with that. I run mostly footsloggers with 3 Packs of Hunters in Pods. The third pack has a Wolf Guard Leader and Ragnar and I'm pleased with them. I played a game few weeks back where I dropped them in turn 4 by the enemy Objective (capture and control) with nothing nearby but a Blood Angels Tactical Squad in it's Rhino. I Stunned the Rhino IIRC, and in his turn he disembarked, shot and charged my pack. I completely massacred his squad and don't believe I even lost a model. Anyway, you just can't play foolishly, like Dropping onto the table right in the middle of a horde of Orks; hell, if I'm playing Orks it is usually smart to just deploy the Pods empty and block Loota LOS, and leave my forces in a firing line until later in the game, when I've had a chance to do some shooting damage. After all, they're Orks, and they're going to come to me anyway. Regards, V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2205074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 To be honest I think the merits of more bodies is more guys to soak up the wounds, because dear old Rags can be brought down with a lascannon shot to the face. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2205077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Can Ragnar join a unit of TWC or other IC with TWM? I imagine adding furious charge to a TWM + frost blade would be a sweet combo. If it works with a WL you have S7 at I6 I think Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2205366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Can Ragnar join a unit of TWC or other IC with TWM? I imagine adding furious charge to a TWM + frost blade would be a sweet combo. If it works with a WL you have S7 at I6 I think Yes, but that would kill their mobility; move at rate of slowest model= no Fleet and no 12" assaults. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2205381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravelybravesirrobin Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Aye, he's pretty useful leading power armoured WG out of a drop pod. how about he's leading terminator armor WG out of drop pod ??? Terminator Armor takes up alot of room- so fewer bodies means less attacks and less benefit from furious charge. GM, It's less total attacks from regular weapons, but having all SCCWs on your Terminators makes up for having less bodies. Right now I've got two options that I like for Ragnar: attached to Grey Hunters or with Wolf Guard Terminators, either coming out of a Pod. BBSR, The unit is better when it gets the charge, but it's not essential; you've just got to play your Pods smartly, as always. DV8 runs a single Pod in his mostly mech force. His Pod has 7 Hunters, Arjac, and Ragnar, and he has had good success with that. I run mostly footsloggers with 3 Packs of Hunters in Pods. The third pack has a Wolf Guard Leader and Ragnar and I'm pleased with them. I played a game few weeks back where I dropped them in turn 4 by the enemy Objective (capture and control) with nothing nearby but a Blood Angels Tactical Squad in it's Rhino. I Stunned the Rhino IIRC, and in his turn he disembarked, shot and charged my pack. I completely massacred his squad and don't believe I even lost a model. Anyway, you just can't play foolishly, like Dropping onto the table right in the middle of a horde of Orks; hell, if I'm playing Orks it is usually smart to just deploy the Pods empty and block Loota LOS, and leave my forces in a firing line until later in the game, when I've had a chance to do some shooting damage. After all, they're Orks, and they're going to come to me anyway. Regards, V In that situation why not just use a wolf lord equipped similarly? If you aren't using his charging powers you could save points and have a unit with the same effectiveness. A wolf lord and Arjac or a wolf lord and a WGBL in a pod is a nasty prospect regardless of if its ragnar or not. He doesn't add value in the same way he does with a unit that you can ensure a charge with. And Orks don't have to come towards you these days by a long shot. Their shooting is far superior and far outranges most space wolf armies, if anything we need to close in on them. But that is a discussion for another thread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2205566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 In that situation why not just use a wolf lord equipped similarly? If you aren't using his charging powers you could save points and have a unit with the same effectiveness. Two things: 1). It's not like I won't be charging with the unit if I get the opportunity to do so. I was just saying that it isn't always essential to get it as soon as they disembark; they can still be effective in shooting, like any other Hunter pack, and can dish it out on a counterattack, too. Also, in the turns after their deployment via the Pod, there are usually several good opportunities for charging units, and getting good value out of Ragnar's benefits. 2). Why would I want to use another Wolf Lord, when its Ragnar's Great Company marking on everyone's shoulder? And Orks don't have to come towards you these days by a long shot. Their shooting is far superior and far outranges most space wolf armies, if anything we need to close in on them. But that is a discussion for another thread. I will agree that you don't always have to play Orks the same way, just like you can use your Pods differently depending on your needs. I've got over 3500 points worth of Orks as one of my four armies, too. But, like you said, we can save Ork tactics for another thread (over on the Waagh!). V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2205594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Terminator Armor takes up alot of room- so fewer bodies means less attacks and less benefit from furious charge. GM, It's less total attacks from regular weapons, but having all SCCWs on your Terminators makes up for having less bodies. Right now I've got two options that I like for Ragnar: attached to Grey Hunters or with Wolf Guard Terminators, either coming out of a Pod. Fair enough, though I dont field WG without a PW at the least anyways- so that really didnt occur to me. Why would you not give a Wolf Gaurd something to ignore armor? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2206354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Terminator Armor takes up alot of room- so fewer bodies means less attacks and less benefit from furious charge. GM, It's less total attacks from regular weapons, but having all SCCWs on your Terminators makes up for having less bodies. Right now I've got two options that I like for Ragnar: attached to Grey Hunters or with Wolf Guard Terminators, either coming out of a Pod. Fair enough, though I dont field WG without a PW at the least anyways- so that really didnt occur to me. Why would you not give a Wolf Gaurd something to ignore armor? I see what you are saying now (had to go back and look at the original posts). Well it's all about managing that combat output for the points, isn't it? If you give all as heck the PAWG Power Weapons then they get to be a pretty pricy unit, every one that gets killed before you charge is costing you more than if you leave several as plain 18 point unupgraded meatshields. When they charge, they might accidentally massacre the enemy unit, leaving themselves exposed again. It is usually better to finish off the enemy in their assault phase, so that your unit is free to move and assault again without being targetted by whatever enemy firepower is available. Keeping most of them with just CCWs also frees up some points for SCCWs to be spread to other units, too. Lots of ways to skin the cat though. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186323-ragnar-berserk-charge/#findComment-2206415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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