Ancient Terra

[Ufthak]

***CAREFUL HERE BE SPOILERS FOR HORUS HERESY SERIES***

 

 

 

 

Hello folks.

 

I got another question. In the Horus Heresy series, many different characters mention locations on and people from ancient Terra. I tried to make a connection between those mentioned and nowadays Earth. Some were pretty obvious:

 

1. Merica - America (USA?)

2. Nordyc - Scandinavia / Great Britain / Ireland / (possibly) Germany

3. Nordyc thunder Gods of Legend - Thor / Donar / Thunor

4. Ural Mountains - Ural Mountains

5. Mount Narodnya - Mount Narodnaya (the "People's Mountain") in the Urals

6. Yndonesic Bloc - Empire / Corporation in the nowaday Oceanic Region, specifically Indonesia

7. Panpacific Empire - similar power base stretching over the Pacific

8. Empire of Ursh - Russia (Etymologically/linguistically speaking, the transition from "Russ" to "Ursh" would be simple and easy)

9. Nordafric conclaves - power base in North Africa

10. Jermani - Germany

11. Tribes of the Franc - French people

12. a famous scientist with a similar name to Eisenstein - Einstein

13. Pan European Alliance - European Union

14. Kingdom of Bania - Albania?

15. Nouva Yourk - New York

16. Card Game played in "Horus Rising" - probably Poker

17. Anatoly - Anatolia / nowaday Turkey*

18. Gyptus - Egypt (I vaguely remember someone mentioning a massive library in Gyptus in the first Horus Heresy novels - this could be a nod towards the mythical library of Alexandria)

19. Himalayas - Himalayas

20. Mount Ararat - Chiyaye Agiri (Mount Ararat, the "fiery mountain")

21. Roma - Roma (the city, not the people, since it's a battle honour on the flag of the Imperial Fists)

 

 

 

Others are hard to guess. Anyone help me here?

 

1. Albia (Albania? Or possibly Italy, a reference to the ancient kingdom of Alba Longa?)

2. the war memorial in Albia, an "arch of white marble with dark iron statues on top" (the Arc de Triomphe in Paris? The Palazzo del Doge in Venice? The Brandenburger Tor in Berlin?)

3. the Terrawatt Clan (?)

4. Sumatura (Sumatra?)

5. Philosopher Sahlonum of Sumatra (Biblical King Solomon? Is Sumatura Palestine then?)

6. the remembracer with a name similar to Eisenstein (?)

7. Legendary Hero Nuada Silverhand (?)

 

 

 

I'm intrigued as to what the authors are refering to. Any ideas?

 

 

 

 

*By the way, to all of you who ergo believe the Emperor to be a Turk (I've encountered enough people who do), check your histories: the Turks didn't move into Asia minor until 1000 AD; the Emperor was born 9000 years before that! So he surely wasn't Turk; nor Greek, Persian, Lydian, Kurd, Armenian, Georgian, Lazi, Arab, or anything in that direction. He probably came from some pre-indogermanic tribe...possibly related to the Hittites or the Trojans of legend.

[Sons of Horus]

actually the emperor was born in 8,000 B.C. not 10,000 B.C. ;)

 

this was actually really helpful especially the part with Ursh being Russia :)

[Kjarl Bluetooth]

Others are hard to guess. Anyone help me here?

 

1. Albia (Albania? Or possibly Italy, a reference to the ancient kingdom of Alba Longa?)

2. the war memorial in Albia, an "arch of white marble with dark iron statues on top" (the Arc de Triomphe in Paris? The Palazzo del Doge in Venice? The Brandenburger Tor in Berlin?)

 

Albia could allude to Albion which is the name WHFB gives to the British Isles.

 

Likewise, an alternative war memorial in Albion could be Marble Arch although this isn't entirely warlike/military in apprearance.

[Pulse]

1. Merica - America (USA?)

2. Nordyc - Scandinavia / Great Britain / Ireland / (possibly) Germany

3. Nordyc thunder Gods of Legend - Thor / Donar / Thunor

4. Ural Mountains - Ural Mountains

5. Mount Narodnya - Mount Narodnaya (the "People's Mountain") in the Urals

6. Yndonesic Bloc - Empire / Corporation in the nowaday Oceanic Region, specifically Indonesia

7. Panpacific Empire - similar power base stretching over the Pacific

8. Empire of Ursh - Russia (Etymologically/linguistically speaking, the transition from "Russ" to "Ursh" would be simple and easy)

9. Nordafric conclaves - power base in North Africa

10. Jermani - Germany

11. Tribes of the Franc - French people

12. a famous scientist with a similar name to Eisenstein - Einstein

13. Pan European Alliance - European Union

14. Kingdom of Bania - Albania?

15. Nouva Yourk - New York

16. Card Game played in "Horus Rising" - probably Poker

17. Anatoly - Anatolia / nowaday Turkey*

18. Gyptus - Egypt (I vaguely remember someone mentioning a massive library in Gyptus in the first Horus Heresy novels - this could be a nod towards the mythical library of Alexandria)

19. Himalayas - Himalayas

20. Mount Ararat - Chiyaye Agiri (Mount Ararat, the "fiery mountain")

21. Roma - Roma (the city, not the people, since it's a battle honour on the flag of the Imperial Fists)

These are how i have read them aswell, its pretty easy to relate the names when you use common sense. :D

 

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I think Albia is as Kjarl says, it being Albion - the old name for the British Isles, described in ancient history (not just WHFB). Then again as the golden throne is directly on top present day Nottingham, that would mean that Imperial Palace is covers most, if not all of the British Isles, but the British Isles seems the most likely.

 

Sumatura - Is mostly likely to be present day Sumatra.

 

As for the Terrawatt clan, i don't think you are going to find much hard infomation relating to them. I think they were more than likely made up of all sorts of peoples from around Terra.

 

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As we are focusing on names on Terra - I recently read Blood Game by Dan Abnett, the time period for the story is just as word is spreading of Horus going traitor, so around the 31st millenia. Here are a few more names i can add to the list.

 

 

Mesopotamia - Ancient Iraq, so from that we can safely assume that the area of Iraq is still there.

 

Slovakian fiefs - Slovakia quite clearly. I will also add a small quote to describe what a Fief is -

Feif system of medieval European feudalism, often consisted of inheritable lands or revenue-producing property granted by a lord, generally to a vassal (who holds seisin), in return for a form of allegiance (usually given by homage and fealty), originally to give him the means to fulfill his military duties when called upon.

Kaspia - It is safe to assume he means the Caspian Sea and the area east of the Caspian Sea namely, Turkmenistan or Central Asia in general (reffered to as Trans-Caspia).

 

Dolomite Shrines - This has to be the Dolomites, a section of the Alps in the north-east Italy.

 

Boocuresti Hive - Again this must be present day Bucharest in Romania.

 

Gobi Waste - This has to be the Gobi Desert covering parts north-western China, and southern Mongolia.

 

Kath Mandau - Clearly Kathmandu in Nepal.

 

Himalazia - Obviously the Himalayas.

 

Xizang mine - Is the area of present day Tibet controlled by the Chinese called the Tibet Autonomous Region - or Xizang in Chinese.

 

Qokang Oasis - According to Dan Abnett this oasis is within the Imperial Palace itself, so this means that the Imperial Palace stretches all the way to present day Burma. Although historically it is called Kogang it was a feudal state within Burma.

 

Pit of Venezia - This has to be Venice, as in the Italian language Venezia means Venice.

 

Bilhorod - The only real thing that stand out to me on this, is the city of Bilhorod-Dnistrovskyi, a city within the Ukraine that sits on the bank of the Dniester Liman, a large estuary.

 

Annapurna Gate - Dan Abnett describes this as one the massive gates that lead into the Imperial Palace. In present times Annapurna is a series of peaks in the Himalayas, with the highest peak standing at 8091m, making it the 10th-highest summit in the world. It is located east of a great gorge cut through the Himalayas, making it a great spot for a massive fortified gate for the Imperial Palace.

 

Kunlun - One of the longest mountain chains in Asia, extending more than 3,000 km.

 

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Dan Abnett also describes another thing as well i thought i should add:

 

Egyptian Pebble - Surely this means that Egypt as a country is still around during the period before the Heresy.

 

Phew that was a lot of researching but that should add a few names and regions to your list. :D

[Vissah]

In the first story in the book Tales of Heresy the Custodians go to High Brasil what I think would be the north of South America.

[Pulse]

Oh yes, i forgot about that - Hy Brasil is present day Brazil. In the story Sao Paol is also mentioned, this has to be Sao Paulo.

[WelshMullet]

When trying to work out where everything would be on the modern day globe, you have to remember "Continental Drift", which makes the process quite a bit harder... B)

[Bob Hunk]

Albia could allude to Albion which is the name WHFB gives to the British Isles.

 

Likewise, an alternative war memorial in Albion could be Marble Arch although this isn't entirely warlike/military in apprearance.

 

That's what I was thinking as well. :huh:

 

When trying to work out where everything would be on the modern day globe, you have to remember "Continental Drift", which makes the process quite a bit harder... :P

 

Over the 31000 years between now and the Age of the Emperor, the effects of continental drift would be very small. It takes millions of years for any significant difference. :)

[antique_nova]

i am curious at the moment, especially when i haven't read a single HH book. Is there any referance to the great wall of china?

thanks

antique_nova

[Pulse]

Over the 31000 years between now and the Age of the Emperor, the effects of continental drift would be very small. It takes millions of years for any significant difference. :)

Yep. :huh:

[WelshMullet]

Okay, then, what about natural disasters, volcanoes etc. They cause landmass changes...

[Tutteman]

It is noted in Horus Rising that Earth has undergone massive changes. So much so none of the Luna Wolves who found that underground map of Earth/Terra even recognised. Only the Emperor did. I can't remember off the top of my head but I believe that the book mentioned seas receding? And of course the sheer pollution and climate change involved with mass industry.

[Pulse]

Indeed the map they find, is indeed very different from what they know Terra to look like, that doesn't however change the name of countries or specific regions too much, the data won't be lost due to climate change or huge upheaval/shifting of the earths crust. Also yes i think the seas receded and many dried up completely due to mass industry warming up the planet, this would cause new areas to be formed, and obviously new names would be given to these 'new spaces' but the old names wouldn't change to much. ;)

[Ufthak]

Wow, thanks for the replies! :-)

 

@Sons of Horus:

Erm...my maths is a little hazy, left school 4 years ago...but in my book 8,000 (years before Christ) + 1000 (years after Christ) = 9,000. Ergo the Emperor is 9,000 years old by the time the Seljuk Turks move into modern Anatolia around 1,000 AD.

 

@Kjarl:

So Albia is most probably the British Isles. Thanks...now we know Garro's a limey*! :)

 

@Pulse:

WOW! What a post! Thanx a lot! Cool...so Abnett mentions "Dolomite Shrines"? Great, that's where I'm from! South Tyrol in Northern Italy contains parts of the Dolomites. Nice to know they'll still be around in 29,000 years...

 

@antique nova:

I haven't read the whole series yet, but I don't think the wall is mentioned.

 

 

 

As for the trnasformation of the Planet...I see a lot of contradiction. Where is the Imperial Palace? How large is it? Some say the Golden Throne's over Nottingham, some say it covers most of the British Isles, others say it's built into the Himalayas and covers most of central Asia. The second theory makes more sense to me, since the Astronomican's in the Himalayas, since Abnett mentions the Palace bordering on Burma (which is nearby), and because, in the 31st Millenium, the Himalayan peaks are probably the only part of the planet left untouched and therefore beautiful when compared to the rest.

Is Earth one massive city, like Coruscant in Star Wars? Or is it still green and beautiful? Some characters recall walking through beautiful gardens on Terra, Garro sees the outlines of continents from space, which imply beauty and water...yet other accounts mention vast industries, barren wastes where there were once oceans, and a scorched sky. Then again, the "Collected Visions" say the oceans were boiled away by Horus' bombardment during the siege of Terra.

 

As so often...contradiction contradiction...

 

 

*Please you Brits, take it with a pinch of salt, I'm half a Brit myself.

[Ashur]

6. the remembracer with a name similar to Eisenstein (?)

 

 

Thats a reference to Sergei Eisenstein, the soviet film director.

[Justicar Valius]

haven't read the books so this may be off (don't worry will read when i have time!)

 

I do belive the astronomican sits in the hollowed out himilayas so perhaps that will help?

[Pulse]

The Imperial Palace is described as being 'bigger than many cities. Its levels and byways took a lifetime to learn.' The Palace is vast, massive, bigger than anything we can imagine today and then some. According the same story by Dan Abnett (Blood Game), the tallest peak in Himalayas (Everest) was flattened to provide some of the materials to extend the palace and add extra fortifications.

 

Apprantly one room in the Palace called the Ivory Room, is so vast that entire armies can march through the entire length. Artificial ravines have been created, five hundred storeys deep as well as enormous domes, especially one called the Hegemon, is so vast that they have their own miniature weather system, including clouds and rain.

 

As for the location of the Palace, the GW HQ staff that i have spoken to in Nottingham, insist that it covers Europe and that the Golden Throne is situated directly on top of Nottingham. Although a trend seems to be developing lately to have the Imperial Palace located in the Himalayas, which from a tactical point of view, is a much better option compared to the flatter continent of Europe. Then again who says that the Palace doesn't stretch from modern day Britain/England all the way to Burma? Although that is a vast distance, even for the Imperial Palace, most unlikely.

 

I think it is safe to assume that most of Earth (Terra) is as you say 'one massive city'. I would think most of the land mass has been built on, with gigantic hive cities towering up all over the place. There are parks, but probably in the more 'desirable' areas where the rich and powerful can stroll around at their leisure. Thats not to say that certain parts of the land arn't 'green' with trees and grass but i think that they would be a rare sight.

 

In some places on Terra, as described in the Space Wolf novels the ground level we walk on today is under many layers of building work, like a multi-story car park, with new layers being added over the years and each layer being habitable, with the most powerful and rich living on the 'surface'.

 

It would be possible to see the continents from space, as Garro witnesses, as really the continents are akin to slabs of rock jutting out from the oceans, so if oceans have boiled away or receded it would still be possible to see them towering above the land beneath that would have been the bottom of the sea.

[Galadren]

Then again as the golden throne is directly on top present day Nottingham, that would mean that Imperial Palace is covers most, if not all of the British Isles, but the British Isles seems the most likely.

 

I thought the Imperial Palace was in the Himilayas?

[Ufthak]

The Golden Throne over Nottingham...then let me guess, the Council of Terra consists of the top 10 investors of GW :D

 

Sergei Eisenstein...of course!!! Why didn't I think of that?!? Though I dunno if I would call him a remembrancer...

 

Questions still remain. Anyone got any idea who Nuada Silverhand or Sahlonum could have been?

[Tutteman]

I'd imagine when they thought up the fluff for the Palace someone said it would be funny to have the Throne over Nottingham. They all laughed and thought this sounded good and agreed. Twenty years later they realised it sounded a bit kind of silly and went for the biggest mountain range they could think of.

[Pulse]

Nuada Silverhand - Information here - He is a hero of Irish/Welsh myth.

 

Sahlonum - I think it must be Solomon, there are no other real explainations. The whole Sumatra thing does throw me though, as Sumatra (also spelled Sumatera) is an island in western Indonesia. Very odd. I think the GW staff must have just put the two names together randomly to make a name and place that sounds interesting.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

damn pulse, you beat me to it :P

 

WLK

[Ufthak]

@Tutteman:

I can well imagine that's what happened. The Himalayas sounds a teeney bit more awesome than Nottingham; but it must have seemed like a nice idea at the time.

 

@Pulse:

Hey good work, man!!!

 

I guess that's all the questions more or less answered!

 

Terrawatt Clan - fictional power bloc

Albia - British Isles

The War Memorial in Albia - most probably nothing in particular

Sumatura - Sumatra

Sahlonum - Solomon

remembrancer with a name similar to Eisenstein - Sergei Eisenstein

Nuada Silverhand - Nuada Airgetlám of irish myth

 

Thanx folks, was a great help :P

 

 

 

Feel free to continue the discussion, of course!

[Pulse]

damn pulse, you beat me to it :lol:

Sorry mate :devil:

 

@Pulse:

Hey good work, man!!!

 

Thanx folks, was a great help :)

A pleasure. :)

 

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One more i forgot to say:

 

Baluchistan - Present day Balochistan, is the largest province of Pakistan. :)

[Brother of the Temple]

Oh yes, i forgot about that - Hy Brasil is present day Brazil. In the story Sao Paol is also mentioned, this has to be Sao Paulo.

 

You wouldn't have to worry about continental drift, forty thousand years isn't much time geologically. The continents would be fairly close to where they are now.

 

The coast lines maybe a different story. Melting icecaps, volcanic eruptions causing cooler years, earthquakes, etc. could effect the coastlines inside those 40,000 years. The continents would stay where they are (more or less).