Developing Fluff for a Crusade

[DarkKnightCuron]

Much like the Codex Chapters have fluff concerning their founding and whatnot, I was interested in possibly developing fluff for my own Crusade (or Fighting Company). Developing fluff around their crusading fleet, any Chapter Houses with which they conduct recruiting, as well as any noteable battles. Mostly, this is going to be slightly based off of my hometown's metagame, and I'll be using the commonly-seen armies there as a guide for where in the universe this Crusade will likely take place.

 

The commonly seen armies include:

-Blood Ravens

-Ultramarines

-Tau

-Raven Guard

-Tyrannids

-Space Wolves

 

I've excluded armies such as orks, general Imperial Guard, and Necrons, as those three armies can easily be inserted into any location, really.

 

Naturally, any fluff developed here will likewise be placed into my BLOG.

 

So, let's open up the table for suggestions. The only thing Fluff-wise that I really am kind of dead-set on is that the 'Emperor's Champion' and my Castellan/Marshall (not sure which) are actual twins, and they've tried their hardest to be in the same battles, watching each others' backs.

[Marshal Rohr]

Much like the Codex Chapters have fluff concerning their founding and whatnot, I was interested in possibly developing fluff for my own Crusade (or Fighting Company). Developing fluff around their crusading fleet, any Chapter Houses with which they conduct recruiting, as well as any noteable battles. Mostly, this is going to be slightly based off of my hometown's metagame, and I'll be using the commonly-seen armies there as a guide for where in the universe this Crusade will likely take place.

 

Is it a campaign or just the normal armies seen at games nights? I have been doing the same thing for my Crusade and essentially found that it takes too much to try and cram all I want to do in it, so I have made several 'snapshots' of my Crusade over the centuries.

 

As for Chapter Keeps and such, remember we do not own worlds, just recruit from them. The presence of a keep is going to have an insignificant impact on the world it is housed on, unless it is the staging point for your whole Crusade. As for the fluff about Crusade Fleets, definitely check out some of the BFG stuff and the older articles in WD, as these have TONS of info I have used repeatedly.

 

The commonly seen armies include:

-Blood Ravens

-Ultramarines

-Tau

-Raven Guard

-Tyrannids

-Space Wolves

 

I've excluded armies such as orks, general Imperial Guard, and Necrons, as those three armies can easily be inserted into any location, really.

 

DO NOT have your Crusade fight other Marine Chapters or loyal IG regiments(in the fluff), as that is silly and would cause a massive chain reaction. To fight Tau your Crusade HAS to be on the Eastern Fringe, so sadly, no Chaos Legions (save Night Lords and Word Bearers) will ever push out that far.

 

 

 

So, let's open up the table for suggestions. The only thing Fluff-wise that I really am kind of dead-set on is that the 'Emperor's Champion' and my Castellan/Marshall (not sure which) are actual twins, and they've tried their hardest to be in the same battles, watching each others' backs.

 

I would let that be your only stretch. If you try to fit too many crazy things in then you will lose much of what you want to be unique. Also, the Emperor’s Champion has a high turnover, and rarely holds the position for long. They EC is normally an Initiate, so he would be the twin who got the leftover genes if his brother if he is still an initiate while his twin becomes a Marshal

[DarkKnightCuron]

Much like the Codex Chapters have fluff concerning their founding and whatnot, I was interested in possibly developing fluff for my own Crusade (or Fighting Company). Developing fluff around their crusading fleet, any Chapter Houses with which they conduct recruiting, as well as any noteable battles. Mostly, this is going to be slightly based off of my hometown's metagame, and I'll be using the commonly-seen armies there as a guide for where in the universe this Crusade will likely take place.

 

Is it a campaign or just the normal armies seen at games nights? I have been doing the same thing for my Crusade and essentially found that it takes too much to try and cram all I want to do in it, so I have made several 'snapshots' of my Crusade over the centuries.

 

As for Chapter Keeps and such, remember we do not own worlds, just recruit from them. The presence of a keep is going to have an insignificant impact on the world it is housed on, unless it is the staging point for your whole Crusade. As for the fluff about Crusade Fleets, definitely check out some of the BFG stuff and the older articles in WD, as these have TONS of info I have used repeatedly.

 

First off, this is all really great feedback. Some of it might be stuff that directly conflicts with what I was going for, but at the same time, it keeps the fluff in line. At any rate, it's mostly just armies seen at Games nights. We have yet to form any kind of cohesive 'campaign' of anykind, unfortunately, though that might be subject to change eventually.

 

As for Chapter Keeps, I was thinking at least one or two that are main staging areas for this Crusade, with a few secondary worlds used mainly for recruiting. I was planning on one of these recruitment worlds to be right in the path of the Tau's next sphere of expansion, just to help add some conflict there. As for the fleet, if you can reference the articles or past issues, I would appreciate that. The only real information I was able to glean was from Lexicanum, which wasn't too in-depth from what I saw. However, I'll make sure to look into Battlefleet Gothic.

 

The commonly seen armies include:

-Blood Ravens

-Ultramarines

-Tau

-Raven Guard

-Tyrannids

-Space Wolves

 

I've excluded armies such as orks, general Imperial Guard, and Necrons, as those three armies can easily be inserted into any location, really.

 

DO NOT have your Crusade fight other Marine Chapters or loyal IG regiments(in the fluff), as that is silly and would cause a massive chain reaction. To fight Tau your Crusade HAS to be on the Eastern Fringe, so sadly, no Chaos Legions (save Night Lords and Word Bearers) will ever push out that far.

 

Obviously, fluff-wise, I wouldn't fight against other Marine Chapters or loyal IG. I mainly listed them for possible 'teaming up' games and other possible 'political'/character interactions. I know the Blood Ravens Player regularly fields an Inquisitor, so some Inquisition shenanigans might be in order as well.

 

I figured this particular Crusade would be on the Eastern Fringe, mostly due to the Tyrannid, Tau, and UM involvement, which doesn't really bother me. I'm just trying to get it down to sector/sub-sector/system/etc.

 

 

 

So, let's open up the table for suggestions. The only thing Fluff-wise that I really am kind of dead-set on is that the 'Emperor's Champion' and my Castellan/Marshall (not sure which) are actual twins, and they've tried their hardest to be in the same battles, watching each others' backs.

 

I would let that be your only stretch. If you try to fit too many crazy things in then you will lose much of what you want to be unique. Also, the Emperor’s Champion has a high turnover, and rarely holds the position for long. They EC is normally an Initiate, so he would be the twin who got the leftover genes if his brother if he is still an initiate while his twin becomes a Marshal

 

Hmm...Since you presented that evidence, it does seem like a big stretch, doesn't it? I might reconsider it. Any other suggestions?

[DarkKnightCuron]

Cerellian (Sir-ehl-e-an) Crusade

 

Marshal in charge of Crusade: Marshall Helbane

 

Fighting Companies devoted to Crusade: Five

 

1st - Castellan <Need Name>

2nd - Castellan <Need Name>

3rd - Castellan Curon Hifor

4th - Castellan Jacobin Crusix

5th - Castellan Rodrick Ghrael

 

1st Fighting Company of the Cerellian Crusade

Fluff Goes Here

Brief background information on Castellan, attached Chaplain(s), Dreadnoughts, etc

Current Emperor's Champion: <Insert Name Here>

 

2nd Fighting Company of the Cerellian Crusade

Fluff Goes Here

Brief background information on Castellan, attached Chaplain(s), Dreadnoughts, etc

Current Emperor's Champion: <Insert Name Here>

 

3rd Fighting Company of the Cerellian Crusade

This fighting company was formed from a conglomeration of Initiates and Neophytes recruited from the desert world of Yarine VIII, one of the few planets on the fringe of Tau-held space. As such, the newly-appointed Castellan of this fighting company, Curon Hifor, has the difficult task of balancing drawing recruits for the Cerellian Crusade and leaving a significant enough force on Yarine VIII, should the upstart Tau ever seek to expand again.

Castellan Curon Hifor is a distinguished commander of some reputation, after having cleansed four worlds of an Ork invasion. Recently promoted to Castellan, Curon Hifor had developed a taste for the wind in his face as part of an Initiate Bike Squadron during his participation in Marshall Helbane's Fighting Company (when Helbane was a Castellan himself), and the Marshall had personally requested Curon Hifor to command one of the Fighting Companies for this particular Crusade. As such, Curon's fighting company has an above-average number of Bike Squadrons, a mimic of his favored tactic of meeting the enemy in a glorious charge on their Space Marine Battle Bikes.

Brief background information on Castellan, attached Chaplain(s), Dreadnoughts, etc

Current Emperor's Champion: Initiate Verdant Hie

 

4th Fighting Company of the Cerellian Crusade

Fluff Goes Here

Castellan Jacobin Crusix is an old battle brother of the Marshall, having been a Neophyte at the same time as Marshall Helbane. Obviously, however, Castellan Crusix has yet to be raised to the rank of Marshall, due to previous failures in a previous Crusade. As such, Crusix is constantly looking for a chance to redeem himself and his men. Unlike some Fighting Companies, Crusix' Company has few Neophytes, many of his warriors veterans of past campaigns. It is difficult for Crusix to recruit new Neophytes into his company, both because of their apparently high standards and Crusix's reputation.

Brief background information on Castellan, attached Chaplain(s), Dreadnoughts, etc

Current Emperor's Champion: <Insert Name Here>

 

5th Fighting Company of the Cerellian Crusade

Fluff Goes Here

Castellan Rodrick Ghrael, a veteran of the Damocles Gulf Crusade, acts as a mentor to Castellan Curon Hifor, as both of their fighting companies share the same quadrants of responsibility during the Cerellian Crusade. While it is obvious Ghrael has wisdom and experience unmatched by many in this particular Crusade, it has been noted that few can match the zeal of Curon Hifor. Regardless, Rodrick Ghrael is somewhat over-eager to face against a potential threat from the Tau.

Brief background information on Castellan, attached Chaplain(s), Dreadnoughts, etc

Current Emperor's Champion: <Insert Name Here>

[Marshal Rohr]

That seems like a large amont of Fighting Companies. What would the strength of the companies be? If they are roughly 80+ would make you the largest Crusade in the area. Also, remember that the Damocles Gulf Crusade was a long time ago, before Hive Fleet Behemoth had even shown up. The FC fluff looks good but be aware of how inter relates your FCs are. You don't want them to be tripping over each

other.

[Von Richthofen]

So, let's open up the table for suggestions. The only thing Fluff-wise that I really am kind of dead-set on is that the 'Emperor's Champion' and my Castellan/Marshall (not sure which) are actual twins, and they've tried their hardest to be in the same battles, watching each others' backs.

 

I would let that be your only stretch. If you try to fit too many crazy things in then you will lose much of what you want to be unique. Also, the Emperor’s Champion has a high turnover, and rarely holds the position for long. They EC is normally an Initiate, so he would be the twin who got the leftover genes if his brother if he is still an initiate while his twin becomes a Marshal

 

Hmm...Since you presented that evidence, it does seem like a big stretch, doesn't it? I might reconsider it. Any other suggestions?

 

My suggestion would be that they are not Twins, but could instead be relatives, even cousins, like Nemiel and Zahariel from the Fallen Angels HH books. You could even further split it that the Marshal (100's of years of service) is actually the great-great-great (or whatever) uncle of the Champion who was recruited much later, or something like that.

[DarkKnightCuron]

That seems like a large amont of Fighting Companies. What would the strength of the companies be? If they are roughly 80+ would make you the largest Crusade in the area. Also, remember that the Damocles Gulf Crusade was a long time ago, before Hive Fleet Behemoth had even shown up. The FC fluff looks good but be aware of how inter relates your FCs are. You don't want them to be tripping over each

other.

 

I had designed the Cerellian Crusade to be fairly large, consisting of several systems, but I probably should scale both sides of the equation down a little bit. I guess I don't quite have a handle on how many Fighting companies are 'appropriate' for most circumstances. We have roughly 8 Ork players at my metagame back home, and as many Tau players as well. With the new Tyrannid Codex, I'm expecting a few more to play those armies as well, so I think the location is sound enough, for the most part.

 

As for the FC fluff, I wanted each one to be rather unique, but each one having some form of relationship with each other, previous battles, mentorship, etc. Particular individuals of certain FCs will like/dislike other members and whatnot. For example, the Venerable Dreadnought in the 1st Fighting Company will be very critical of the other Castellans in this particular Crusade, deeming some of them to have been promoted before they were ready.

 

As for the Damocles Gulf comment, do you think I should change it to something else? I wanted this particular Castellan to be particularly vengeful against the Tau.

 

So, let's open up the table for suggestions. The only thing Fluff-wise that I really am kind of dead-set on is that the 'Emperor's Champion' and my Castellan/Marshall (not sure which) are actual twins, and they've tried their hardest to be in the same battles, watching each others' backs.

 

I would let that be your only stretch. If you try to fit too many crazy things in then you will lose much of what you want to be unique. Also, the Emperor’s Champion has a high turnover, and rarely holds the position for long. They EC is normally an Initiate, so he would be the twin who got the leftover genes if his brother if he is still an initiate while his twin becomes a Marshal

 

Hmm...Since you presented that evidence, it does seem like a big stretch, doesn't it? I might reconsider it. Any other suggestions?

 

My suggestion would be that they are not Twins, but could instead be relatives, even cousins, like Nemiel and Zahariel from the Fallen Angels HH books. You could even further split it that the Marshal (100's of years of service) is actually the great-great-great (or whatever) uncle of the Champion who was recruited much later, or something like that.

 

This is a really great idea, I like it! Thank you very much!

[Acebaur]

You've got an awful lot of fluff to develop there. Do you actually have a really large force of models? or is this just for fluff? If it's the later I might make a suggestion so you don't have so much to create all at once. I base my crusade size on the actual number of models I have, and create fluff based on that. So for me, my crusade is relatively small, only about 60 men. (it doesn't include all the crap I haven't built yet :)) It certainly has helped me to not get overwhelmed with the amount of fluff I have to create. As my models grow in number, so to will my fluff.

[DarkKnightCuron]

You've got an awful lot of fluff to develop there. Do you actually have a really large force of models? or is this just for fluff? If it's the later I might make a suggestion so you don't have so much to create all at once. I base my crusade size on the actual number of models I have, and create fluff based on that. So for me, my crusade is relatively small, only about 60 men. (it doesn't include all the crap I haven't built yet :thanks:) It certainly has helped me to not get overwhelmed with the amount of fluff I have to create. As my models grow in number, so to will my fluff.

 

I personally like writing. My Black Templar Force is small, and while I would LOVE to slowly build up to that many points, I doubt that will ever come to pass. I'll likely focus on the 5th Fighting Company (with options to field 3rd, since Curon Hifor is something of a personal icon of mine). I don't mind developing fluff for a large force, however, I just...like to develop stuff XD

[Brother Loring]

I'm not sure I necessarily agree with the basics of your crusades/fighting companies - this does not mean that you are wrong though!

 

I've always thought that crusades need a particular aim. When that is complete, they move on to another aim. I don't see that in your fluff, it seems that they are kind of hanging around in a particular area fighting whoever fancies it.

 

I know the fighting companies in the back of C:BT state specific numbers of forces, but I've always thought the number and size of fighting companies as being very dynamic depending on sub-goals of a crusade. e.g. a crusade may have 100 marines, with 3 active FCs of 20/30/50 marines. The next week, there may just be 2 FCs of 35/65 marines. I've always thought the title of castellan isn't so much a rank, more just a designation of who is in charge of that FC at that particular time, and at other times these guys may be reabsorbed into the body of sword brethren of a more senior castellan FC. Something that would not really happen if somebody is raised to a particular rank. If you are stating that there are 5 at this point in time, that's cool, but I don't personally think there will be a definite number for the duration of the crusade.

 

Again, I've always thought of a FC as designated a particular job or sub-goal, contributing to the completion of the overall crusade aim. When a problem arises that the marshal feels needs to be addressed, he assigns a sufficient number of marines to a fighting company and assigns the title of castellan to one of the most experienced/ferocious warriors.

 

In terms of EC, I don't think there is one assigned to a fighting company. One marine gets an image/task from the Emperor and presents himself to one of the chaplains of the company/crusade. If these are deemed to be valid, he becomes the EC until that task is complete. I've always thought there could be several ECs in the life of a FC if the Emperor sought the need for it.

 

Anyway, this is just how I've interpreted things from the stuff I've read but would love to hear how other people interpret our crusade's make-up (maybe this should be done in a separate thread rather than disturbing DKC's)

 

I really like seeing people creating fluff for their models/forces and I would say to go with what you feel to be correct.

 

Make sure Brother Loring -Reclusiarch to, but one of the many Chaplains of the Cerellian crusade - plays his part though! :thanks:

[DarkKnightCuron]

I'm not sure I necessarily agree with the basics of your crusades/fighting companies - this does not mean that you are wrong though!

 

I've always thought that crusades need a particular aim. When that is complete, they move on to another aim. I don't see that in your fluff, it seems that they are kind of hanging around in a particular area fighting whoever fancies it.

 

I haven't gotten around to settling on a particular aim yet. I was considering focusing on the retaking of worlds in the Cerellian Sector from an army of orks and, eventually due to provocation from the Tau, would spill over towards Tau-held space, maintaining its momentum, but it seems a little random even for Black Templars.

 

I know the fighting companies in the back of C:BT state specific numbers of forces, but I've always thought the number and size of fighting companies as being very dynamic depending on sub-goals of a crusade. e.g. a crusade may have 100 marines, with 3 active FCs of 20/30/50 marines. The next week, there may just be 2 FCs of 35/65 marines. I've always thought the title of castellan isn't so much a rank, more just a designation of who is in charge of that FC at that particular time, and at other times these guys may be reabsorbed into the body of sword brethren of a more senior castellan FC. Something that would not really happen if somebody is raised to a particular rank. If you are stating that there are 5 at this point in time, that's cool, but I don't personally think there will be a definite number for the duration of the crusade.

 

Hm. I had never thought of FCs as something more fluid in that regard. I had thought that 'Castellan' was sort of a step-up from Sword Brethren, but I might be wrong and, like individual Space Marine Chapters, took a particular pride in the particular company they served in, remaining coherent with that same company. However, I believe I remember reading somewhere that FCs aren't so much organized that way, but such a band fights together from sheer familiarity with each other.

 

Again, I've always thought of a FC as designated a particular job or sub-goal, contributing to the completion of the overall crusade aim. When a problem arises that the marshal feels needs to be addressed, he assigns a sufficient number of marines to a fighting company and assigns the title of castellan to one of the most experienced/ferocious warriors.

 

That's an interesting way to go about it, I suppose. That makes things a lot more difficult to manage on the fluff side, however, as things would be constantly changing.

 

In terms of EC, I don't think there is one assigned to a fighting company. One marine gets an image/task from the Emperor and presents himself to one of the chaplains of the company/crusade. If these are deemed to be valid, he becomes the EC until that task is complete. I've always thought there could be several ECs in the life of a FC if the Emperor sought the need for it.

 

Ah, that was something I had been confused about. Do FCs retain the same EC until he dies (or someone worthy takes his place), or does he return the armor and sword after each battle, the dawn of a new battle deciding a new EC?

 

Anyway, this is just how I've interpreted things from the stuff I've read but would love to hear how other people interpret our crusade's make-up (maybe this should be done in a separate thread rather than disturbing DKC's)

 

I really like seeing people creating fluff for their models/forces and I would say to go with what you feel to be correct.

 

I usually respect the advice of more veteran members than I, and a lot of your advice (actually, all of it) is rather sound, so I'll try to conform it with the advice being presented here. Hence why I opened this thread to discussion rather than just posting it whilly-nilly without regard to the actual fluff and its interpretation.

 

Make sure Brother Loring -Reclusiarch to, but one of the many Chaplains of the Cerellian crusade - plays his part though! :)

 

Now I finally have a name for my Chaplain...

[Acebaur]

I've never liked the idea of the EC being a different guy before each battle. It seemed like it would be a position in the force more than just a bunch of guys having dreams. I think, (at least in terms of my crusade) that the EC is chosen in the way the fluff describes and then he's the EC until he's dead. Sort of like that line from Starship Troopers: (changing names to fit BT)

Emperor in Initiates vision:I need a new EC, you're it until you're dead. Or I find someone better.

[Brother Loring]

Like I said, that is only my take on things, I have been wrong on many things regarding BTs and I'm certain I'll be wrong on many things in the future! I'm sure I could find some bits in books as to where I got my thoughts from, but I'm sure they would be open to interpretation.

 

I would recommend you get take one enemy or the other and make them the focus. You could then possibly have one fighting company that has been dispatched to deal with the other foe that is either harassing them or preventing them from completing their primary objective.

 

If you have not read the Armageddon books, then I would recommend doing so. They're not the best books in my opinion, and people will say they are written with a lot of 'artistic license', but I think there is some really good stuff in them that anybody interested in writing some fluff should read.

 

I wouldn't count myself as a 'veteran' around these parts, I think it's more I think I have a big mouth and like to give my opinion, so tend to post quite a bit. I just think everybody tends to have an opinion on almost anything, so I think we should all give our opinions - as long as they are constructive - that is what a forum is all about!

 

p.s. Loring is 'old German' for Renowned Warrior/Fighter or son of renowned warrior and maybe you could work that in you were being serious about using??

 

p.p.s. best of luck vs. Tau, didn't fancy trying out the Drop Pods courtesy of Coca-Cola??

 

Edit - Acebaur posted whilst writing.

 

That's exactly what I mean - Others will have different and equally valid views on things. I was never sure on this one. New EC before each battle or permanent post?? After reading the Armageddon books, I like to think of them having a task given to them by the Emperor, which may involve their death, but may not. I think they will remain the EC until another has such a vision.

[BigDunc]

Fluff is certainly fun to sit down and cram out but my advice is... just let it happen! I'm finding that the best way to develop fluff is to just... play... and let the fluff come to you. All it really requires is paying attention to patterns (ie consistently good games vs a certain opponent at your LGS). For me, this has become Andrew's Tau. Using Tau locates the Kannas (Kannas being the Arabic pronunciation of "sniper" btw, which ends up fitting with Tau) Crusade in a specific place in the 40k universe. General location, Check. Non-Imperial opponent, Check. Purpose, goal, and aim: Cleanse the Xenos, Check. Andrew and myself (along with a renegade IG player who's fluff is being formerly a Tau auxiliary) recently started a campaign. Arbitrarily the planet was called Sycorax. Planetary System Location, Check. Current Champion? A single assault Initiate who killed numerous Crisis Suits and heroically saved a game for me. EC Frigo, Check. With so much campaign left, I'm excited to experience the fluff that is in store for my Crusade

[Godspear]

DO NOT have your Crusade fight other Marine Chapters or loyal IG regiments(in the fluff), as that is silly and would cause a massive chain reaction. To fight Tau your Crusade HAS to be on the Eastern Fringe, so sadly, no Chaos Legions (save Night Lords and Word Bearers) will ever push out that far.

 

What about inter chapter training exercises? Astartes on Astartes combat could be easily justified in the fluff in this context. We train with other nations all the time. While I was in, I worked with Aussies, Brits, Koreans, Japanese, and Singaporeans. Why is it not feasible that the best the Imperium has to offer would not train with each other? It promotes the development of any fighting force to learn the ways in which other forces fight, internalizing new tactic and synthesizing it with their own combat regimen. I mean, I can see what you're saying, and I think it might be much harder to justify SM vs IG, just because I've never read anything about space marines and IG training together, but Space Marines of different chapters have been illustrated as training together in several books.

[Marshal Rohr]

You've got an awful lot of fluff to develop there. Do you actually have a really large force of models? or is this just for fluff? If it's the later I might make a suggestion so you don't have so much to create all at once. I base my crusade size on the actual number of models I have, and create fluff based on that. So for me, my crusade is relatively small, only about 60 men. (it doesn't include all the crap I haven't built yet :)) It certainly has helped me to not get overwhelmed with the amount of fluff I have to create. As my models grow in number, so to will my fluff.

 

I personally like writing. My Black Templar Force is small, and while I would LOVE to slowly build up to that many points, I doubt that will ever come to pass. I'll likely focus on the 5th Fighting Company (with options to field 3rd, since Curon Hifor is something of a personal icon of mine). I don't mind developing fluff for a large force, however, I just...like to develop stuff XD

 

It is important to pick your main focus, if it is Hifor, then focus on how he interacts with the Crusade.

 

I'm not sure I necessarily agree with the basics of your crusades/fighting companies - this does not mean that you are wrong though!

 

I've always thought that crusades need a particular aim. When that is complete, they move on to another aim. I don't see that in your fluff, it seems that they are kind of hanging around in a particular area fighting whoever fancies it.

 

I haven't gotten around to settling on a particular aim yet. I was considering focusing on the retaking of worlds in the Cerellian Sector from an army of orks and, eventually due to provocation from the Tau, would spill over towards Tau-held space, maintaining its momentum, but it seems a little random even for Black Templars.

 

I know the fighting companies in the back of C:BT state specific numbers of forces, but I've always thought the number and size of fighting companies as being very dynamic depending on sub-goals of a crusade. e.g. a crusade may have 100 marines, with 3 active FCs of 20/30/50 marines. The next week, there may just be 2 FCs of 35/65 marines. I've always thought the title of castellan isn't so much a rank, more just a designation of who is in charge of that FC at that particular time, and at other times these guys may be reabsorbed into the body of sword brethren of a more senior castellan FC. Something that would not really happen if somebody is raised to a particular rank. If you are stating that there are 5 at this point in time, that's cool, but I don't personally think there will be a definite number for the duration of the crusade.

 

Hm. I had never thought of FCs as something more fluid in that regard. I had thought that 'Castellan' was sort of a step-up from Sword Brethren, but I might be wrong and, like individual Space Marine Chapters, took a particular pride in the particular company they served in, remaining coherent with that same company. However, I believe I remember reading somewhere that FCs aren't so much organized that way, but such a band fights together from sheer familiarity with each other.

 

Again, I've always thought of a FC as designated a particular job or sub-goal, contributing to the completion of the overall crusade aim. When a problem arises that the marshal feels needs to be addressed, he assigns a sufficient number of marines to a fighting company and assigns the title of castellan to one of the most experienced/ferocious warriors.

 

That's an interesting way to go about it, I suppose. That makes things a lot more difficult to manage on the fluff side, however, as things would be constantly changing.

 

In terms of EC, I don't think there is one assigned to a fighting company. One marine gets an image/task from the Emperor and presents himself to one of the chaplains of the company/crusade. If these are deemed to be valid, he becomes the EC until that task is complete. I've always thought there could be several ECs in the life of a FC if the Emperor sought the need for it.

 

Ah, that was something I had been confused about. Do FCs retain the same EC until he dies (or someone worthy takes his place), or does he return the armor and sword after each battle, the dawn of a new battle deciding a new EC?

 

Anyway, this is just how I've interpreted things from the stuff I've read but would love to hear how other people interpret our crusade's make-up (maybe this should be done in a separate thread rather than disturbing DKC's)

 

I really like seeing people creating fluff for their models/forces and I would say to go with what you feel to be correct.

 

I usually respect the advice of more veteran members than I, and a lot of your advice (actually, all of it) is rather sound, so I'll try to conform it with the advice being presented here. Hence why I opened this thread to discussion rather than just posting it whilly-nilly without regard to the actual fluff and its interpretation.

 

Make sure Brother Loring -Reclusiarch to, but one of the many Chaplains of the Cerellian crusade - plays his part though! ;)

 

Now I finally have a name for my Chaplain...

 

 

I have always seen Castellan as a Wolf Guard Battle Leader. Its more like a senior Sword Brethren is tasked with completing an objective, when he isn't tasked with leading a FC he's fighting in the Household. Which, unfortunately, leaves him no rules to accuratly depict him.

 

I've never liked the idea of the EC being a different guy before each battle. It seemed like it would be a position in the force more than just a bunch of guys having dreams. I think, (at least in terms of my crusade) that the EC is chosen in the way the fluff describes and then he's the EC until he's dead. Sort of like that line from Starship Troopers: (changing names to fit BT)

Emperor in Initiates vision:I need a new EC, you're it until you're dead. Or I find someone better.

 

That is sort of how I have always seen it as well. Not to mention their may be some politics behind the scens as well. We arn't perfect after all ;) .

 

DO NOT have your Crusade fight other Marine Chapters or loyal IG regiments(in the fluff), as that is silly and would cause a massive chain reaction. To fight Tau your Crusade HAS to be on the Eastern Fringe, so sadly, no Chaos Legions (save Night Lords and Word Bearers) will ever push out that far.

 

What about inter chapter training exercises? Astartes on Astartes combat could be easily justified in the fluff in this context. We train with other nations all the time. While I was in, I worked with Aussies, Brits, Koreans, Japanese, and Singaporeans. Why is it not feasible that the best the Imperium has to offer would not train with each other? It promotes the development of any fighting force to learn the ways in which other forces fight, internalizing new tactic and synthesizing it with their own combat regimen. I mean, I can see what you're saying, and I think it might be much harder to justify SM vs IG, just because I've never read anything about space marines and IG training together, but Space Marines of different chapters have been illustrated as training together in several books.

 

Maybe if we were talking about an IG regiment, but Chapters have no need to 'cross-train' for tactics. The only examples we have are of chapters learning new skills. The Codex covers all known tactics and strategies, and we just blow off the organization, not the real 'meat' of the Codex. Sure the White Scars are the masters of hit and run, but their tactics are in the Codex, so we use that as a guide for 'what' to do. If we wanted specific techniques on say, how to fire from a saddle, or a neat trick to add gear or retool a space marine bike, then maybe we would cross train.

[DarkKnightCuron]

I've never liked the idea of the EC being a different guy before each battle. It seemed like it would be a position in the force more than just a bunch of guys having dreams. I think, (at least in terms of my crusade) that the EC is chosen in the way the fluff describes and then he's the EC until he's dead. Sort of like that line from Starship Troopers: (changing names to fit BT)

Emperor in Initiates vision:I need a new EC, you're it until you're dead. Or I find someone better.

 

That's the thought process I had when building my EC model, funnily enough.

 

I would recommend you get take one enemy or the other and make them the focus. You could then possibly have one fighting company that has been dispatched to deal with the other foe that is either harassing them or preventing them from completing their primary objective.

 

Alright, that's a sound suggestion. Sort of like a reactionary force, especially if I end up facing oddball things like Chaos Marines.

 

p.s. Loring is 'old German' for Renowned Warrior/Fighter or son of renowned warrior and maybe you could work that in you were being serious about using??

 

Yes, I was actually being serious about that, unless you rather I didn't?

 

p.p.s. best of luck vs. Tau, didn't fancy trying out the Drop Pods courtesy of Coca-Cola??

 

I actually haven't tried it yet, though I had half a mind to, but I wanted to test out this particular army list against all available opponents before switching anything out first.

 

It is important to pick your main focus, if it is Hifor, then focus on how he interacts with the Crusade.

 

It'll likely be Hifor then. I'll need to work on a mounted and dis-mounted version of the model. Likely a Terminator-version as well.

 

I have always seen Castellan as a Wolf Guard Battle Leader. Its more like a senior Sword Brethren is tasked with completing an objective, when he isn't tasked with leading a FC he's fighting in the Household. Which, unfortunately, leaves him no rules to accuratly depict him.

 

That's...actually a cool way to think about it, really. The only problem is that you can't really give Sword Brethren squads Bikes, otherwise, I'd have a bit easier time fitting it into the fluff.

[Brother Loring]

I told you lots of people would have other opinions to me. The important thing is that you do it how you want to. There is no definite structure to our crusade make-up and it is a fantasy game anyway.

 

I think I was along the same lines as M2C when he was talking about WGBL/castellans and being taken back into the 'household' units when not acting as a castellan - I just don't know a great deal about Space Wolves to make the comparison.

 

With regards to the bike thing, why not make him look like a sword brethren, but stick him on a bike. That way it demonstrates he is part of the household/sword brethren, but at this point in time he is leading a strike force of biker initiates. I really like that image and I'm definately going to create a castellan on a bike when I finally get my SB command squad sorted!

 

I don't mind the Brother Loring thing at all, I feel very honoured in fact. I would love to say it has a massive significance, but unfortunately it doesn't. I was looking for a name for this forum and just looked-up some old Germanic names and it sounded pretty cool.

 

I look forward to seeing a revised version!

[DarkKnightCuron]

I told you lots of people would have other opinions to me. The important thing is that you do it how you want to. There is no definite structure to our crusade make-up and it is a fantasy game anyway.

 

I think I was along the same lines as M2C when he was talking about WGBL/castellans and being taken back into the 'household' units when not acting as a castellan - I just don't know a great deal about Space Wolves to make the comparison.

 

With regards to the bike thing, why not make him look like a sword brethren, but stick him on a bike. That way it demonstrates he is part of the household/sword brethren, but at this point in time he is leading a strike force of biker initiates. I really like that image and I'm definately going to create a castellan on a bike when I finally get my SB command squad sorted!

 

I don't mind the Brother Loring thing at all, I feel very honoured in fact. I would love to say it has a massive significance, but unfortunately it doesn't. I was looking for a name for this forum and just looked-up some old Germanic names and it sounded pretty cool.

 

I look forward to seeing a revised version!

 

Awesome!

 

Anyway, all of the above makes a lot of sense, when combined with the other opinions I've received. I could probably change the fluff so that Marshall Helbane dispatched one of the sword brethren in his household, Curon Hifor, to act as a Castellan to the forces he sent to counter-attack a Tau offensive. This could likely take place near the desert planet I mentioned earlier. Offering to help Hifor out (as well as get a chance to fight the Tau), Rodrick Ghrael would probably try to mentor Curon Hifor (as Curon probably is the latest 'addition' to the Household as a Sword Brethren).

[Acebaur]

If you are looking to make a good bike commander model, buy the Dark Angels 3 man bike squad. It's cheaper than the regular bike squad and comes with a whole bunch of extra Ravenwing bits, some of which fit in perfectly with BT. (the bikes are just stock bikes so no worries about having to shave down DA bits) There's a pair of legs that come with it that have the bottom part of a cloak. If you cut a tabbard in half at the waist you could easily use that instead of the DA chest piece it comes with and Voila! instant Bike Castellan/Marshal/Sword Brethren.

 

As far as the Castellan being a position or not, go with whatever suits you best. As Brother Loring said, everyone has an opinion on it so go with what you like best. I prefer it to be a position, mostly because I have a couple of extra commander type models. But it's not a step up from SB for me either. It's kind of outside the Force org chart if you will. If I take SB my Marshal always commands them, my Castellans are used mostly in small battles. Brother Loring and I differ on this but niether of us is wrong, that's what is great about BT is they are very flexible in their organization.

[DarkKnightCuron]

If you are looking to make a good bike commander model, buy the Dark Angels 3 man bike squad. It's cheaper than the regular bike squad and comes with a whole bunch of extra Ravenwing bits, some of which fit in perfectly with BT. (the bikes are just stock bikes so no worries about having to shave down DA bits) There's a pair of legs that come with it that have the bottom part of a cloak. If you cut a tabbard in half at the waist you could easily use that instead of the DA chest piece it comes with and Voila! instant Bike Castellan/Marshal/Sword Brethren.

 

Yeah, that's actually exactly how I'm modeling his bike-version. The problem is that there are so many bits involved, I have to paint all the major parts completely, and THEN glue them (carefully!) together in order to make it look right.

 

As far as the Castellan being a position or not, go with whatever suits you best. As Brother Loring said, everyone has an opinion on it so go with what you like best. I prefer it to be a position, mostly because I have a couple of extra commander type models. But it's not a step up from SB for me either. It's kind of outside the Force org chart if you will. If I take SB my Marshal always commands them, my Castellans are used mostly in small battles. Brother Loring and I differ on this but niether of us is wrong, that's what is great about BT is they are very flexible in their organization.

 

I rather like the idea that 'Castellan' is more of a temporary position, mostly a formality and used to acknowledge seniority during a particular battle, but the particular individual's 'rank' is always Sword Brethren until he advances to Marshall and establishes his own 'house', which is probably a momentous occasion.

 

Just out of curiosity, how often to Black Templars (mostly Sword Brethren and Marshalls) have their own coat of arms?

[Marshal Rohr]

As far as the Castellan being a position or not, go with whatever suits you best. As Brother Loring said, everyone has an opinion on it so go with what you like best. I prefer it to be a position, mostly because I have a couple of extra commander type models. But it's not a step up from SB for me either. It's kind of outside the Force org chart if you will. If I take SB my Marshal always commands them, my Castellans are used mostly in small battles. Brother Loring and I differ on this but niether of us is wrong, that's what is great about BT is they are very flexible in their organization.

 

I rather like the idea that 'Castellan' is more of a temporary position, mostly a formality and used to acknowledge seniority during a particular battle, but the particular individual's 'rank' is always Sword Brethren until he advances to Marshall and establishes his own 'house', which is probably a momentous occasion.

 

Just out of curiosity, how often to Black Templars (mostly Sword Brethren and Marshalls) have their own coat of arms?

 

Marshal's Discretion, otherwise known as player's tastes. Personally, I do heraldry for my Sword Brethren, but I stick with black, red, and small elements of white so it doesn't distract too much. I like to do things as close to 'eavy Metal as possible. Do you have something in mind?

[DarkKnightCuron]

Not really. I had the idea of doing heraldry, but I really had nothing to go by. Have any suggestions?

[Marshal Rohr]

I just do variations of the same stuff: crosses, check patterns, halos, and so on.

[DarkKnightCuron]

I just do variations of the same stuff: crosses, check patterns, halos, and so on.

 

That's a good start. I'll probably go along with that, then. Thanks for the info!