Kay Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Im thinking about bringing the next list o a tourney, but before that, i'd like to hear what you guys think about it. Lysander Marneus 10 tact. Terminators with 2cml 10 tact. Terminators with 2 ac 5 scouts with combimelta, meltabombs in a LSS with hf (3of these) Telion+7snipers Any thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabulousRex Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Lash Bait and Focus Fire would beat you really badly. Imagine an equal-sized IG army focus firing their whole army at one of your Termy squads.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2206148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus de Mortalis Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 This list doesn't look very menacing. You require the first turn so that you can charge the scouts in to get stationary armor and to be alive before the first volley from the enemy. If you got the roll for first turn, I would start all my armor either too far back for you to reach or in reserve. First turn I get to shoot, all of your speeders are pretty much automatically destroyed since they are open-topped AV10 and there is nothing else to divert fire. Scouts without power weapons and heavy flamers pose no threat to marines so I could deploy all my troops with impunity regardless. If you start the termies on the table I would nail them as soon as the three speeders were out of action, which shouldn't take long. One could throw a lot of fire at the termies to soften them up then assault them if need be, or simply move around them with more mobile units. If you split up the termies into 4 squads, it would be easy to take them on piecemeal, ridiculously easy if they are deepstriking. If you don't split them up and deepstrike them you have few options, do you attack the enemy base, or do you protect your own? Also even with LD10 and no modifiers, you can fail a morale check, 1 in 12, and you will be taking them because your guys get picked off. Playing for victory points one could ignore or run away from the termies as much as one could and go for the real easy pickings of the scouts and speeders. The moral of the story is that 1300 points of footslogging termies are easy to outshoot and outmaneuver and that land speeder storms and small unsupported scout squads are extremely fragile and lack much punch. This list might be able to pull some ties, but I just don't see it getting any wins. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2206169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted December 5, 2009 Author Share Posted December 5, 2009 yeah, you might be right, i guess i was dazzled of the firepower o unit of termis can dish out.. Changing marneus for an epistolary fore some gate to infinity love, removing 1 speeder team abd spending those 200ish points wouldnt change the thing right? Thx for the feedback mates! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2206226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 The firepower of the termies is great, but all their support is AV10 and scouts. Don't get me wrong, I love my LSS and scout squad, but they die horribly if there is nothing more menacing and urgent to shoot at. Your termies and characters will die to focussed fire as they trudge across the board, using the burning wrecks of LSS's for cover :mellow: RoV Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2206255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus de Mortalis Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 The firepower of the termies is great The firepower for all his termies is 4 missile, 8 assault cannon, and 38 bolter shots per turn, which is very little for the points invested. Math hammering Calgar and the firepower of the two termie squads gives them an average of only 8.54 MEQ kills per turn assuming full strength, no cover, and in range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2206308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Chaos_Brute Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 How about something like: Libby, TDA, Null Zone, GoI 125 Libby, TDA, VoD, GoI 125 10 Termies, 2 Cyclones, 2 Chainfists 470 10 Termies, 2 Cyclones, 2 Chainfists 470 Dread, Pod 140 10 Marines, Flamer, PC, Rhino 210 10 Marines, Melta, MM, Rhino 210 1750 instead? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2206382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus de Mortalis Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 A locator beacon and teleport homers would be ideal for teleporting around the map and makes it a lot more effective. You can hopefully come up real close to the enemy and not worry about scattering. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2206404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 The firepower of the termies is great The firepower for all his termies is 4 missile, 8 assault cannon, and 38 bolter shots per turn, which is very little for the points invested. Math hammering Calgar and the firepower of the two termie squads gives them an average of only 8.54 MEQ kills per turn assuming full strength, no cover, and in range. Who said I was comparing it to points? Who says that MEQ is the only way to measure effectiveness? If you are going to be picky, at least make it worthwhile :P RoV Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2206409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 and dont forget lysander re-rolls bolters (more precisely storm bolters) A unit of ten with lysander took down 5 terminators in a single turn in my last game, never underestimate massed firepower! However in this case i have to agree with previous posters, especially RoV: without more synergy your army will get picked apart. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2206459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Lysander destroys one of Marneus' most powerful abilities- passing or failing morale checks at will. He also overlaps Marneus' CC abilities. Id drop him like a bad habit. In his place, get yourself a third scoring unit, or some better antitank- or both, get scouts and a storm. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2206566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Drop marneus oR lysander? I'd say marneus, he is more expensive, and Lysander's rerolling bolters is priceless . In a game yesterday he and the full termi tact wiped a full str boyz mob with a nob and this charactr that turns you into a squig, next turn 5 fnp nobz and next, 4nob bikers. There was no ork army by turn 4, but it wasnt this army.. marneus on his part, killed 5meganobs by his own...in a single turn i had a tfc and a lrc... pretty good. list, bit cheese maybe hehehe Iron chaos, i like ur list a lot, but i'd like to keep it 1st+10th co. Gc08 you knowho caused this uh? You guys blame him hehehe Gotta tell you that using massive termis makes you see how awsome they are. They dish out massive amounts of dmg, they are resilient as hell and they look awsome. In the game i commented before, i killed his whole army in 4 turns and i just lost 6sternguards. (The list was marn+lysander+10tact terms+6ass terms+telion squad+10scout boltgun unit+lrc+tfc) the mission was objectives, but he had no troops left to capture hahaha) Thanks again for your time and help Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2206690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Iron chaos, i like ur list a lot, but i'd like to keep it 1st+10th co.Gc08 you knowho caused this uh? You guys blame him hehehe 1st and tenth is a whole bag of awesome, i have yet to lose with them and have even taken on an uber SW force made from the new codex and destroyed the whole army bar a drop pod. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2206722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Whats ur list gc08? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2206791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Whats ur list gc08? It changes all the time, currently its this: 10 snipers HB, Telion, cloaks LSS HF 5 scouts, combi-flamer, fist LSS MM 5 scouts, combi-melta, meltabombs 5 scout bikes 3 GL, fist, mines T-fire cannon 10 terminators 2 chainfists, AC, CML Lyasnder although ill probably try to squeeze Calgar in here instead of lysander Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2206941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Thats 2k points? why do u prefer calgar over lysander? Telion's stealth aint hiven to his squad? (To save the points in the cammo cloacks...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2206996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 its 1500 points at the moment. Calgar is the fluffy choice (im an Ultra player), but overall he has alot of benefits, starting with ornital bombardment, more attacks AP2 bolters etc. Telions stealth doesnt confer onto the squad IMHO (although its a grey area), its more reasonable to suggest it doesnt confer and just pay for the cloaks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2207001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Bolter drill dude. You dont reallize how good it is untill you dont have it, but i agree calgar is too god for not considering it. At 2k, my new list is pretty much the samr, exchanging the tfc for a libby, and i dont use bikes, but i mogjt try them though Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2207012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Bolter drill was the main reason for choosing him, but now that ive tried him its time to try Calgar and then i can compare which is truelly the better with thus list. When i get some results ill give you some feedback, 1st and 10th is definately a good list to run and different enough not to be cookie cutter too Gc08 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2207036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 I have tried both, so this time i give feedback to you xd Marney is, as everyone know, a unit by itself. You can disatach him from hos unit at a certain moment and throw him alone at something. I did that against 5 meganobz and killed them all while his unit took care of the boyz. He is a bit less resilient than lysander, due to his 4++ but he does well, just dont be too ambitious xd. His shooting is awsome as you are almost guaranteed to cause 2 wounds at T4 or less mobs (the 6th meganob was killed in a dingle shooting phase by him)and you add the orbital bomb to this. Compare it to bolter drill and decide. His Ld special rule is quite handy too, not sure if i prefer it over lysander's stubborn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2207090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 hmm food for thought! thanks Kay just to go Ot for a sec does TDA allow Calgar to fire his OB on the move (relentless)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2207145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
I AM THE AWESOME Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 hmm food for thought! thanks Kay just to go Ot for a sec does TDA allow Calgar to fire his OB on the move (relentless)? Sadly not. OB requires you main stationary (Chapter Master description). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2207216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 hmm food for thought! thanks Kay just to go Ot for a sec does TDA allow Calgar to fire his OB on the move (relentless)? Sadly not. OB requires you main stationary (Chapter Master description). But doesnt relentless make you "count as" stationary when firing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2207309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus de Mortalis Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 But doesnt relentless make you "count as" stationary when firing? Nope, and though confusing it is a pretty solid no. Relentless lets you count as stationary when firing rapid fire and heavy weapons. The profile for the orbital bombardment says that is an ordnance barrage, so it isn't covered under relentless. Also the special rules for orbital bombardment say that in order to use the ability, he must remain stationary. So from that you could say that he must hold still to use the ability, not necessarily fire the weapon itself. The third way to argue this is that he isn't firing any weapon. The rulebook states that only vehicles can fire ordnance, and the way the orbital bombardment is described as working is that some vehicle in space is doing the firing, not the character on the board. Sorry for the extra, I'm just putting off doing work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2207336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 ok thanks guys, i understand now... back to topic before i get the melta :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186548-tourney-list/#findComment-2207379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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