Ufthak Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 ***CAREFUL HERE BE SPOILERS FOR HORUS HERESY SERIES*** Hey again folks. Reading through "Fulgrim" at the moment, and once again need your help. Having read the first 4 books of the series, and now half through Fulgrim, I find it strange how Fulgrim accumulates swords. As far as I understood it, a ) Ferrus Manus crafts Fireblade for him b ) he takes the Laeran Daemon Blade, which starts corrupting him c ) Horus gives him the Kinebrach Anathame sword which Erebus stole So now Fulgrim has 3 swords. I dunno...isn't that a bit much? Just seems strange to me that he would have a sword collection...especially since Fireblade and the Kinebrach Anathame stop featuring and are virtually forgotten. What's your take on this? Why would Horus give the Anathame to Fulgrim, when he's already got 2 swords? Why not give it to Magnus or Night Haunter or Perturabo or Apharius? Somehow I think Magnus would have loved it...why Fulgrim? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 As far as i can remember (not read Fulgrim in a while) Fireblade is crafted for him by Ferrus, as they close brothers. The Laeran blade isn't what corrupts him. It is the Anathame sword that Erebus stole that corrupts him. Horus gives him the sword after he sways Fulgrim to his cause and to strengthen and lock Fulgrim in place (daemon possession). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2206326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazardousZERO Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Keep reading you will see. It is the learen blade that corrupts him. Remember when the eldar guy sees it, he freaks out and says something like " I should have seen the seeds of chaos in you before" the blade clouded his foresight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2206331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Don't forget what Fulgrim becomes. A 4 armed naga Demon Prince wielding 4 swords. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/2/2f/Fulgrim.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2206400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Yeah, but does he collect the swords because he's going to grow four arms, or does he grow four arms so he can use all those swords he has lying around? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2206478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingo Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Why does anyone collect anything? I think Horus gave Fulgrim the Anathame because in giving Fulgrim the only weapon that could lay him low, Horus showed Fulgrim how much he trusted him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2206561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ufthak Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Hm, still seems strange to me...especially since there were other Primarchs who needed more convincing than Fulgrim. Like I said, he should have given it to Magnus in my opinion... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2206638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingo Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Did Horus think Magnus would join him? I'm not clear on whether he sent Russ to destroy Magnus in order to kill him him, to decimate both legions, or push Magnus to his side. I suppose any of those outcomes would have been ok for Horus really. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2206658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkMoonlight Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 he sends russ so it forces magnus to join horus. magnus is loyal but with horus sending russ to take him out it leaves magnus with no choice but to follow horus, i dunno, guess magnus is meant to feel betrayed by the emperor because of russ. guess we'll find out the answers in the next couple of books that centre around the wolves and thousand sons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2206680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tevelyn Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 It's pretty clear from various parts of the fluff that magnus had been working for tzeench for a pretty long time before he joined horus. Don't mistake "loyal" with "hasn't joined horus". Magnus was a traitor for longer than any other primarch save possibly Lorgar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2206717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 It's pretty clear from various parts of the fluff that magnus had been working for tzeench for a pretty long time before he joined horus. Don't mistake "loyal" with "hasn't joined horus". Magnus was a traitor for longer than any other primarch save possibly Lorgar. Except not... Magnus tried to warn the Emperor and the Sigellite I believe and only turned traitor when Russ and the Wolves came for him on Prospero. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2206746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Except not... Magnus tried to warn the Emperor and the Sigellite I believe and only turned traitor when Russ and the Wolves came for him on Prospero. Russ had broken the back of Magnus over his knee during single combat and when Russ stood over him to deliver the killing blow, Magnus sunk into the ground and dissapeared after pleading for help, and was heard by the Chaos gods. Magnus had no choice. it was that or die. Russ essentially turned Magnus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2206813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Funny how he knew who to ask for help... If he'd been loyal then the Allfather would have heard him rather than Tzeentch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2206818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tevelyn Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 You define traitor specifically as being part of the heresy. He betrayed the emperor by practicing sorcery and being the unwitting pawn of tzeench. He was probably a pawn of tzeench before the council of nikea. Collected visions actually speaks to the effect that he was being manipulated by tzeench through his use of sorcery long before he was overtly used. The warning to the emperor was one of the larger aims of the entire plot by tzeench. The breach of the webway attached to terra did more damage to the imperium than any event in the heresy. Just because he was too arrogant to believe himself fallible doesn't mean that he was innocent of his crimes. He stepped onto the road of betrayal long before Horus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2206819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofblood Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 But if he did not know he was under Tzeentch's control I think it a bit unfair to judge him as a traitor before the heresy even occured, I see what your saying but I wouldn't brand him that just because he unknowingly was being controlled. Yes, I'll agree he stepped on the road to heresy before the others cept Lorgar but again I think the fact he did not know it or did not plan for it excempts him, though only slightly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2206855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tevelyn Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 tell that to the inquisition :). But seriously, the emperor told him to stop practicing sorcery, for good reason. He continued to do it anyway regardless of the consquences. You don't think that ammounts to treason? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2206868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Magnus was definately not corrupt before the battle on Prospero. He was the most powerful pskyer ever behind his father the Emperor, that sort of talent would more than likely have felt the presence of the Chaos gods, the same can be said for the Emperor, he knew the Chaos gods existed. Magnus was no traitor, even though the Emperor forbade him to use his powers but, that will not stop him doing it. Its like a child that enjoys doing something, and the parents tell the child not to, the child will still do it. Yes Magnus trod a very dangerous path, and i am sure he was aware that if he took a wrong 'step' he would fall, but being as powerful as he was i am sure his mind was strong. It was unfortunate that Magnus broke the protective barrier around the Imperial Palace but when he knew of Horus falling to the Chaos powers he did what he thought was best, the quickest and most straight forward way. Unfortunately the Emperor did not see it that way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2206875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tevelyn Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 err... Collected visions has a lot of fluff contradictions, but it states a couple of times that magnus was unwittingly working for tzeench. I'll try to dig out the page number for you tonight but It's in there. And second most powerful psyker after the emperor... thats like saying a flashlight is the second brightest light on the island next to a lighthouse. Don't make that comparison, it isn't there. The emperor smote horus when he was severely injured and horus was filled with the powers of all 4 chaos gods, magnus got beaten to a pulp by leman russ. Tev Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2206886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tevelyn Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 page 97 of collected visions states "None can say when magnus was tainted by the warm, but his actions suggest that the corruption was well progressed by the time of the council of nikea." Actually it's stated over and over again that he was a sorcerer in commune with the dark powers of the warp. It sounds like he just believed that he could control them, like most other cultists who wind up in over their heads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2206907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 page 97 of collected visions states "None can say when magnus was tainted by the warm, but his actions suggest that the corruption was well progressed by the time of the council of nikea." Actually it's stated over and over again that he was a sorcerer in commune with the dark powers of the warp. It sounds like he just believed that he could control them, like most other cultists who wind up in over their heads. Suggested and proved are two different things. It is suggested does not mean that he is. Listening to BL and GW HQ staff members talking about books that have been published the the past they have said numerous times, the books published are viewed from an Imperial stand point, propaganda in a fashion. So books like that are bound to say things like that. As for Magnus being the most powerful psyker behind that Emperor, i think thats fairly well known. I must admit thought he probably did think he could control them, bend them to his will, but i still don't beleive he was their puppet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2206937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tevelyn Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 So you think him using a DEMONIC spell to break the emperors wards on the palace wasn't by anyone's design? Nobody? That doesn't reek of tzeench's involvement? Really? I know better than to argue with someone who doesn't listen to others, I"m done. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2207348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 @tevelyn: Dont bother pulling the Collected Visions out to prove Magnus's heresy. I have been doing that till i went blue in the face (over in the "what legion disapointed you the most") and even with pages, proof, and scanned so they can see it people are more willing to shunt blame away from magnus to a crazy degree. i blame modern society that reinforces the belief that our consequences arent our fault, cause somewhere in the past you were bullied/betrayed/hurt in any manner no matter how weak that forced you to do what you did, and its that things fault, NEVER your own. i left the magnus debate months ago. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2207398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tevelyn Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 yea, I'm done with it. Blood from rocks and everything. Tev Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2207410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Lets try to swing this back to the topic at hand, which is Fulgrim and his sword collection rather than Magnus. Start a new thread to discuss Magnus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2207647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tevelyn Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 I dunno, I think rule of cool pretty much set fulgrim on his sword collecting path. He uses 3 swords and a whip in his naga form, is there anything else needed? I"m just amused by the idea that the same weapon that brought horus low is the same one that got robute. Tev Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186579-fulgrims-swords/#findComment-2207728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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