New plastic TWC

[lunchb0x]

I stick with using bikes as Thunderwolves...

[Lord Scythican]

I stick with using bikes as Thunderwolves...

 

 

Thats the cheap way out!!! Though I did consider that myself. I opted to not use them because they are well...to similar to bikes...

 

EDIT: maybe not cheap, those things are what $45 for three?

[lunchb0x]

I stick with using bikes as Thunderwolves...

 

 

Thats the cheap way out!!! Though I did consider that myself. I opted to not use them because they are well...to similar to bikes...

 

Cheap, maybe. But I am not concerned on who has the most expensive army. Untill GW releases an actual model Ill stick to using my bikes as TWC. Just makes things easier, and its a GW products, I come from the old school of using only GW models in my armies.

[Lord Scythican]

I stick with using bikes as Thunderwolves...

 

 

Thats the cheap way out!!! Though I did consider that myself. I opted to not use them because they are well...to similar to bikes...

 

Cheap, maybe. But I am not concerned on who has the most expensive army. Untill GW releases an actual model Ill stick to using my bikes as TWC. Just makes things easier, and its a GW products, I come from the old school of using only GW models in my armies.

 

Of course, the bikes are actually more expensive than the Fenris Wolf conversion. $5.00 Wolf plus a $3.50 Marine compared to a $15.00 bike...

 

Though in all fairness, when I said cheap, I was referring to effort not money. I am not old school by any means when it comes to warhammer, but I do have a slight case of OCD, which prevents me from fielding units that look nothing like they are supposed to. I don't blame you though. This game is expensive already and if you have a unit of bikes sitting around that could be counts as TWC, by all means continue.

[Wispy]

I'm usually okay with count as, but my perspective is that using Bikes = Misleading. Bikes and Cavalry are two different things in the rules.

[jesse the frozen]

not misleading if you say what they are. I have been using my cold one knights as proxies till i decide what i am going to do.

[stinkenheim]

i remember making a unit of IG rough riders on bikes because i wanted them to fit in with my city fight force. for the fleet i added extra fuel tanks (i think using the flamer canisters from the IG sprue) to represent a Nitro boost :D didnt use them overly much and they've fallen into disrepair since but it was fun and my opponents never complained because i had taken steps to represent the rules on the model.

 

im not sure about the model the OP showed. its nice, but i think there are better options if conversion isn't a hurdle for you.

 

thanks for the link by the way,its always handy to know all of the options out there.

[Wispy]

not misleading if you say what they are. I have been using my cold one knights as proxies till i decide what i am going to do.

Cold ones look like cavalry.

 

bikes look like bikes.

 

what's your gut reaction when looking down the table?

 

I'd say some black bases with "CAVALRY" written on them is more helpful then counting bikes as them..

[lunchb0x]

I stick with using bikes as Thunderwolves...

 

 

Thats the cheap way out!!! Though I did consider that myself. I opted to not use them because they are well...to similar to bikes...

 

Cheap, maybe. But I am not concerned on who has the most expensive army. Untill GW releases an actual model Ill stick to using my bikes as TWC. Just makes things easier, and its a GW products, I come from the old school of using only GW models in my armies.

 

Of course, the bikes are actually more expensive than the Fenris Wolf conversion. $5.00 Wolf plus a $3.50 Marine compared to a $15.00 bike...

 

Though in all fairness, when I said cheap, I was referring to effort not money. I am not old school by any means when it comes to warhammer, but I do have a slight case of OCD, which prevents me from fielding units that look nothing like they are supposed to. I don't blame you though. This game is expensive already and if you have a unit of bikes sitting around that could be counts as TWC, by all means continue.

 

 

Go pick up the dark angels "wing" box, bikes are bloody cheap in that lot.

 

not misleading if you say what they are. I have been using my cold one knights as proxies till i decide what i am going to do.

Cold ones look like cavalry.

 

bikes look like bikes.

 

what's your gut reaction when looking down the table?

 

I'd say some black bases with "CAVALRY" written on them is more helpful then counting bikes as them..

 

 

And you would be incorrect on so many levels.

[antique_nova]

none of them have big hairy legs like the ones in the codex pictures...... TWC in the book look more like over muscular lions plus dog like faces i think.

thanks

antique_nova

 

You are not going to get perfect by any means. The whole lion body thing could be fixed with some some green stuff and some skill.You could even fix the big hairy leg issue too.

would you say that even an amatuer who has never used GS to suckh a scale could do it?

[Lord Scythican]

none of them have big hairy legs like the ones in the codex pictures...... TWC in the book look more like over muscular lions plus dog like faces i think.

thanks

antique_nova

 

You are not going to get perfect by any means. The whole lion body thing could be fixed with some some green stuff and some skill.You could even fix the big hairy leg issue too.

would you say that even an amatuer who has never used GS to suckh a scale could do it?

 

 

I think the solution has boiled down to three viable options for the time being:

 

(1) GW Lions from Elf chariot set. For those who want a tourny legal model. They look similar to some of the Fenrisian Wolf art too. Need some Greenstuff work. I do not think greenstuffing fur is too bad. I could even post a tutorial of what I have done. Not on a white lion though. Basically I smash the green stuff on the area that needs it, and drag my sculpting tool through the green stuff like a stick in the sand. I cut waves into it, some short and some long. After wards I vary it up some more with an exacto-knife to make the curved hair folds more sharp.

 

(2) Space Thunder Wolf on Ebay (From Russia With Love). Good for those who do not care about the tournament legal aspect and for those who lack Green Stuff skills. Out of the box they are perfect. The head may not be the best choice, but the Lady has assured me, she is developing varient heads for the future. Probably some more e-mails to her would help build on some customer demand and speed it along. These come out to $15.00 USD each if you buy 5 of them, due to the shipping discount factored into the overall payment. I haven't got mine in the mail yet, but her feedback on this item is very good. I have watched her sell 200+. These models have nice Space Wolf Icons on them such as shin armor with Warhammer style banners ready for some Norse Runes, and the He-Man Battle-Cat saddle brings back memories. This model may or may not be tournament legal. The 50% GW model rule seems a little shady to me and is open to interpretation. Should I weigh the wolf part and compare it to the GW parts? Some people believe the rider, plus the base is enough for the 50% rule. Some people believe a nice big banner would be enough to tip the scale in your favor. Me I am tempted to weigh the parts so I have proof.

 

(3) Fenris Wolf from Heroxclix. Best price hands down, (for now that is). I bought 5 more last night for $4.00 each from a seller who had them at $5.99 or best offer. They are of an appropriate size. Needs some green stuff work, such as armor plates, and saddles and if you want to repostion them. They looks really good next to Fangir. Of course you might be able to just throw a rider on them and call it a day with no Greenstuff work. The main problem with this item is supply and demand. It is a new miniature from the newest heroclix set. If you remember Heroclix canceled a few months ago, and this set marks its return. Since the mini is less than a month old, it is going to increase in price as people buy it. I am already seeing it on ebay with some sellers wanting $7.99 each. The Heroclix sellers are not going to understand that we are using it for a conversion. They are going to think it is a chase rare that they overlooked and they are going to increase the price. In 7 months you will be able to get the Fenris for a couple of dollars once we stop buying them and everyone realizes they are not a good rare.

 

 

Less than viable options:

 

(1) Wait on GW to make a real one. The thing will probably be $35 each. However at the last Gamesday it was stated that there are no plans to make the model.

 

(2) Wait on Forgeworld. Would be nice. Would look good. Probably expensive. No word thus far.

 

(3) Bikes. Leads to confusing on whether the model is a bike or a TWC. I believe the thing should at least look like a mount and should look very different than a unit of bikes. A better choice would be cold ones or the Chaos Warrior Horses.

 

(4) The wolf from Max mini. Looks really good. Varient Heads. However the $22.00 price tag is too much for an unofficial model. I would pay $15.00 but thats about it.

[stinkenheim]

i think the using bikes as proxies for TWC is a viable option. obviously it would become confusing if also using normal bikes in your army. but its not too far of a stretch to say, 'you see these guys that are tougher than normal marines and move quicker, well they are representing other tougher than average marines who also move quicker than normal'

 

i could certainly see a nicely beefed up bike on a lisghtyly wider than normal base amking for a very effective TWC conversion

[Lord Scythican]

i think the using bikes as proxies for TWC is a viable option. obviously it would become confusing if also using normal bikes in your army. but its not too far of a stretch to say, 'you see these guys that are tougher than normal marines and move quicker, well they are representing other tougher than average marines who also move quicker than normal'

 

i could certainly see a nicely beefed up bike on a lisghtyly wider than normal base amking for a very effective TWC conversion

 

One of the people I play with thinks the same thing. However his reasons are that he cannot stand the fluff of the Wolf theme. I told him, well if you don't like the wolves, then play the Ultramarines. He doesn't like Canis, and the idea of Fenrisian wolves is irritating too. I believe he wants to take an advantage of using the TWC unit without playing with wolves. :rolleyes:

 

If I was going to go to the trouble of running bikes as TWC, I think I would just settle for running them as bikes. They both fit the same slot, and some people are saying it is a better choice anyway. The TWC only gets really effective if you run the Fenris wolves with them as a screen and to allocate wounds. I joked with my friend who didn't like the wolves and said: "Ok bikes for TWC? I know you don't like the Fenrisian Wolves either, what are you going to do, position your wolf guard on all fours?" HAHA

 

 

Not saying this is you though...so take no offense.

 

Now me, I wouldn't mind using bikes, if the space wolves didn't already have bikes as a fast attack choice. It can lead to confusion, so if you do I would make sure everyone knows what they are. Personally I wouldn't do it. It feels like using Grey Hunters as Terminators, (which is probably legal too.)

 

Also the Ravenwing box set looks great lunchb0x. A free landspeeder and a Attack Bike? Cool!

 

EDIT: Your comment about using the bikes as proxies is really good too. If I was going to play an official tournament and need TWC, I would probably not be allowed to use my custom wolves. Yet the bikes would probably be a legal choice. If my plan was to use TWC on my army list at a big tournament, I would probably prepare to use bikes as a legal choice.

[Oldenhaller]

Confusion would reign if you used both in a list....how would you differentiate?

 

~O

[megamat008]

Now THIS is a good model for a Thunderwolf:

 

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/70/0344e240d6cd0dorig.jpg

 

It is made by a russian sculptor and a friend of mine is going there for Christmas and bringing back hundreds of them for our gaming group. :rolleyes:

[Lord Scythican]

Confusion would reign if you used both in a list....how would you differentiate?

 

~O

 

 

Good point. If you made them like the Dark Angels Ravenwing Attack Bikes, with big bases and three wheels, that would help. Still that is a lot of effort, when there are cheaper choices.

 

 

What does everyone think about the 50% GW model rule when dealing with the Fenris Wolf from Heroclix or the Space Thunder Wolf from Russia? I am pretty sure a marine, base, and a big banner would throw thw 50% rule in your favor, but I am not sure? What am I supposed to do, weight the components?

 

 

 

Now THIS is a good model for a Thunderwolf:

 

It is made by a russian sculptor and a friend of mine is going there for Christmas and bringing back hundreds of them for our gaming group. :rolleyes:

 

 

That one has been brought up before. It is one of my viable choices, see post #36. I have purchased 5 of them and I am awaiting their arrival.

[Lord Scythican]

sorry double post

[Oldenhaller]

Bikes at the day are still bikes - cool in casual play but you may get an opponent who doesn't like it in pick up and play....the book has been out a while now and there are lots of options. For the 50% it'll be down to the tournament organiser and thier take on it. With no real model for it it'd find it reasonable to use one which is specifically designed to represent them to save people on having to try and convert if they don't like to. I do so I have :rolleyes:

 

Check with the organiser first would be my advice

 

~O

[stinkenheim]

i dont take TWC anyway, i really dislike the idea of 7 foot marines in heavy power armour riding around on normal wolves... i could have understood it more if the wolves were more cyrbernetically enhanced, or a bit like servitors but hey thats just me.

i also agree, if your army contains units of bikes already then it would certainly lead to confusion and i would avoid doing that altogether.

 

as you say, for tournaments its a viable option that worksout cheaper than buying multiple canis models, although there would (in my opinion at least) need to be probably more conversion to make them look like they make the marines stronger and move slower than normal but hey. i also agree there are sevral alternatives that fit better but may not be tournament legal due to the amount of non-GW parts used, as said it depends on organisers.

i think with the right conversion bikes would look very cool, in fact i remember seeing someones canis conversion where they put him on a bike on a larger scenic base so that he was a similar height. it looked cool and he had obviously put work into doing it so i wouldnt have a problem. most people in friendly games (i.e non tournament) will appreciate seeing people put the effort into making a unique model

 

i think the biggest issues seem to be that alot of people are against the idea of using stock bikes as TWC, and i can understand that viewpoint. i used to play against someone who was very cheap (despite having a decent job) who played LatD for a while. he used to use orks as big mutants by sticking them on 40mm bases and putting a muated arm on them. that in my opinion is very lazy, and whilst it was never much of an issue he took offence in some teasing when i described them as his not so big mutants. he also brought a job lot of the very old 1 part plastic grots (you know the ones with the pointy helmets) and used them as everything from khorne beserkers to necrons.

i know its an extreme example, but i have no objection to most things providing i get told before the game what is what and there aren't confusing cross overs. for example this guy wanted to use the grots as khorne beserkers and as a unit of normal marines in the same game. that was just confusing, especially as he had 1 unit of unpainted, cc weapon equiped chaos marines and didn't like it when i asked him to use those as beserkers and the two grot uints as marines...

 

if people want to proxy then fine, providing its a decent enough match up (i have used a squad of IG sergeants all with 2 cc weapons to represent eldar storm guardians beacuse both are same str, t, armour save and pistol and close combat weapon, seemed logical) then im fine, and if they start to convert things and make the models fit the rules then even better.

 

what about this for an option? a unit of WG, draped in pelts and teeth and such, armed with frost blades on bulked out bikes with james bond style rocket boosters on the back to represent TWC. you have the strength increase represented on the model, the wound increase because of the heavier, bulked out bike and the increased charge range because they hit the big red button and 'WHOOSH!!' nitro boost :rolleyes: that way they would look suitable different from 'normal' bikers (especially if on slightly wider bases) and the models fit the units special rules (maybe add spiky bits to the bike to represent rending- people get impaled by the bike as it comes hurtling towards you).

 

+EDIT+ added a couple of bits due to new posts in the time it took to write my reply

[Lord Scythican]

i dont take TWC anyway, i really dislike the idea of 7 foot marines in heavy power armour riding around on normal wolves... i could have understood it more if the wolves were more cyrbernetically enhanced, or a bit like servitors but hey thats just me.

i also agree, if your army contains units of bikes already then it would certainly lead to confusion and i would avoid doing that altogether.

 

as you say, for tournaments its a viable option that worksout cheaper than buying multiple canis models, although there would (in my opinion at least) need to be probably more conversion to make them look like they make the marines stronger and move slower than normal but hey. i also agree there are sevral alternatives that fit better but may not be tournament legal due to the amount of non-GW parts used, as said it depends on organisers.

i think with the right conversion bikes would look very cool, in fact i remember seeing someones canis conversion where they put him on a bike on a larger scenic base so that he was a similar height. it looked cool and he had obviously put work into doing it so i wouldnt have a problem. most people in friendly games (i.e non tournament) will appreciate seeing people put the effort into making a unique model

 

i think the biggest issues seem to be that alot of people are against the idea of using stock bikes as TWC, and i can understand that viewpoint. i used to play against someone who was very cheap (despite having a decent job) who played LatD for a while. he used to use orks as big mutants by sticking them on 40mm bases and putting a muated arm on them. that in my opinion is very lazy, and whilst it was never much of an issue he took offence in some teasing when i described them as his not so big mutants. he also brought a job lot of the very old 1 part plastic grots (you know the ones with the pointy helmets) and used them as everything from khorne beserkers to necrons.

i know its an extreme example, but i have no objection to most things providing i get told before the game what is waht and there aren't confusing cross overs. for example this guy wanted to use the grots as khorne beserkers and as a unit of normal marines in the same game.

 

if people want to proxy then fine, providing its a decent enough match up (i have used a squad of IG sergeants all with 2 cc weapons to represent eldar storm guardians beacuse both are same str, t, armour save and pistol and close combat weapon, seemed logical) and if they start to convert things and make the models fit the rules then even better.

 

what about this for an option? a unit of WG, draped in pelts and teeth and such, armed with frost blades on bulked out bikes with james bond style rocket boosters on the back to represent TWC. you have the strength increase represented on the model, the wound increase because of the heavier, bulked out bike and the increased charge range because they hit the big red button and 'WHOOSH!!' nitro boost :rolleyes: that way they would look suitable different from 'normal' bikers (especially if on slightly wider bases) and the models fit the units special rules (maybe add spiky bits to the bike to represent rending- people get impaled by the bike as it comes hurtling towards you).

 

+EDIT+ added a couple of bits due to new posts in the time it took to write my reply

 

 

I like your ideas of the WG on bikes with rocket boosters. It will make them look different enough. I am right though about the bikes. It is an option for people who despise the wolf theme right?

 

As for the Thunderwolves, I thought they were supposed to be cybernetically enhanced anyways? The art work shows a lot of metal parts, and Fangir has hydrolics sticking out on his ankles. Me, I take them as terminator like with skeletons of metal, outfited with technology to make them stronger, and then have flesh and fur over their metal parts. I could understand someone having problems with normal wolves as mounts, but I didn't think that was the codex's intention.

[Oldenhaller]

If you're going for bikes with rocket boosters....why not go the whole hog and make jetbikes? They're not in any marine dex as a unit and would have the benifits of differentiating between them and regular bikers?

 

~O

[Lord Scythican]

If you're going for bikes with rocket boosters....why not go the whole hog and make jetbikes? They're not in any marine dex as a unit and would have the benifits of differentiating between them and regular bikers?

 

~O

 

 

Sort of like Dark Eldar jetbikes? No wheels?

[Oldenhaller]

lol...more marine like - there are some really nice ones which have been done in the preheresy sections - will see if i can find them. There's an emperor's children one which all use the DA one as a base and another SW one which use a combination of marine bikes and BFG ships

 

~O

[Hfran Morkai]

Ahem,

 

Aren't jetbikes frowned upon by the Imperium, as far as I know the only person who uses one fluff-wise is Mr Dark Angel Sammael (sp?)

 

Might be an old bit of fluff lurking somewhere.

[Lord Scythican]

Like the Dark Angels Master of the Ravenwing? I had not seen that model until today. I am still new to anything space marine, being an Ork and Tau player mostly.

 

Something like this, but more wolfy? http://coolminiornot.com/169740

 

 

Or this?

http://coolminiornot.com/pics/pics11/img44e505d9ecd22.jpg

 

 

Ahem,

 

Aren't jetbikes frowned upon by the Imperium, as far as I know the only person who uses one fluff-wise is Mr Dark Angel Sammael (sp?)

 

Might be an old bit of fluff lurking somewhere.

 

Maybe so, but I wouldn't let fluff get in the way of a counts as model. Remember if that were the case, bikes would be disqualified completely.