Crusader vs. Phobos

[Combat Wombat]

Hey, I'm currently writing up my 2000 pt. pure Grey Knights list and I've reached a dilemma, I want to run 3 raiders, and I'm going to use at least one of each (variety is always a plus really), but I can't decide whether I want a second crusader or a second phobos (regular raider). What would you all suggest?

[jeffersonian000]

I've been running Tri-Raider GK lists for a while now, mostly either 2 Godhammers and a Crusader or just 3 Godhammers. I've been finding the Crusader to be too unreliable if I only take one. I'd advise that if you take Crusaders at all, take at least 2.

 

SJ

[Uncle Mel]

I run two godhammers and a crusader. I feel the Crusader is usually less of a priority to the enemy but can really put a dent on infantry, while delivering a big unit of termies. Even when only running two raiders, one is a crusader.

 

Mel

[- 7eAL -]

Out of curiosity, in what language is the Godhammer standard Land Raider called a Phobos pattern?

[Rindaris]

Crusader... definitely Crusader.

[Combat Wombat]

Out of curiosity, in what language is the Godhammer standard Land Raider called a Phobos pattern?

 

 

I had just heard that that was the official name of the godhammer, since godhammer is actually the name of the sponsons, not the tank, I believe I heard that on these forums, but I couldn't say for sure.

 

Crusader... definitely Crusader.

 

The problem I have with the crusader is its lack of redundancy, with the GK's lack of anti-tank, the chance of losing a tank's AT effectiveness to one shot is worrisome, on the other hand, a Multi-Melta is definitely an effective anti-tank measure, and I would have another Crusader rumbling around

[Marid]

The Crusader makes you play aggressively. No 6" puttering around. We're talking 12" per turn guns blazing. Oh, and here's a bunch of GKTs in your face. How do you like them apples?

 

That is a different style—a style I like. :yes:

[Combat Wombat]

I'm wanting to run a CC Grandmaster w/retinue, but since I'm already planning one Crusader, would a second add much?

[jeffersonian000]

Out of curiosity, in what language is the Godhammer standard Land Raider called a Phobos pattern?

 

Phobos and Demos pattern Land Raiders are the names someone at GW decided to give to standard pattern Land Raiders at some point in the more recent Space Marine codexes. Both patterns are the same, and are site names for the manufacturing plants that build that specific pattern of Land Raider, which happens to be the Martian moons of Phobos and Demos.

 

Godhammer, as a pattern name, denotes more of a function than a location just like Crusader and Redeemer are function names rather than location names rather than the world those patterns are built on. Most of us oldsters call the standard Land Raider "Godhammers" because they mount Godhammer-pattern twin-link Lascannons and this distinguishes them from the Crusader, which was the first named variant of the Land Raider with a specific weapons load that was different from the original. Crusaders aren't called "Crusader" because they are build on a forge world named "Crusade"; they are named Crusaders because they where build by Black Templars to further their "Crusade".

 

As such, I never use the name "Phobos" to denote a standard Land Raider, as it's just not the name I've associated with the original Land Raider since 2nd edition. I can assume that the author that came up with the fluff name of Phobos never played 40k.

 

SJ

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Out of curiosity, in what language is the Godhammer standard Land Raider called a Phobos pattern?

 

Phobos and Demos pattern Land Raiders are the names someone at GW decided to give to standard pattern Land Raiders at some point in the more recent Space Marine codexes. Both patterns are the same, and are site names for the manufacturing plants that build that specific pattern of Land Raider, which happens to be the Martian moons of Phobos and Demos.

While i will agrree that Phobos and Demos are moons of Mars and this is most likely where the Standard/ original Lands Raider get its name i have not seen any evidense that the Demos Pattern is the same as the Phobos. Maybe you could provide a link or a quote to clear this up?

 

Godhammer, as a pattern name, denotes more of a function than a location just like Crusader and Redeemer are function names rather than location names rather than the world those patterns are built on. Most of us oldsters call the standard Land Raider "Godhammers" because they mount Godhammer-pattern twin-link Lascannons and this distinguishes them from the Crusader, which was the first named variant of the Land Raider with a specific weapons load that was different from the original. Crusaders aren't called "Crusader" because they are build on a forge world named "Crusade"; they are named Crusaders because they where build by Black Templars to further their "Crusade".

 

As such, I never use the name "Phobos" to denote a standard Land Raider, as it's just not the name I've associated with the original Land Raider since 2nd edition. I can assume that the author that came up with the fluff name of Phobos never played 40k.

 

SJ

I think your view of how a Land Raider pattern gets it name is way to narrow. True the Crusader was the first alternate pattern and seems to come from the back story of the Black Templars. However to say that the Writers of Forge World books or any GW back story never played the game is going a bit far. GW has given its stamp of approval to all of FW's stuff so to try and fight against it only serves to promote confusion. The new Land Raiders in the FW's IA books have names from the forge worlds where they were created. Helios, Phobos and others that are just hinted at. There could be many reasons why we have not heard of more. Maybe some worlds fell to chaos or were destroyed/ lost. To say that you use Godhammer as a kinda protest because back in the day the Land Raiders had no pattern is ..... short sighted. GW has the right to revise and expand their back story and i think we should support them. I think we should encourage them to release even more patterns like the Terminus ultra, Ares, Redeemer. If some have function names and other names from their Forge World all the better. I also played 40k back before there were different patterns of Land Raider. Back then the IG could take them. Things were a bit different but the newer revised fluff are just a cool. I say Phobos..... its not like its a dirty word or is hard to remember. Give it a chance eh?

[jeffersonian000]

Are you arguing just to argue?

 

SJ

[number6]

The Crusader makes you play aggressively. No 6" puttering around. We're talking 12" per turn guns blazing. Oh, and here's a bunch of GKTs in your face. How do you like them apples?

:tu:

And I now have a new sig.

[Ozybonza]

Go the GK Land Raider Redeemer - by far the most badass LR ever.

 

AP3 + ignore invuln save Flamestorm cannons, plus you strike at I10 the turn you disembark/charge from it.

 

It's in the latest Imperial Armour book. Theres a nice FW model for it, but you could make one from a regular LRR easily enough.

[Combat Wombat]

I was planning on staying in the codex since IA rules can't always be used.

[Marid]

The Crusader makes you play aggressively. No 6" puttering around. We're talking 12" per turn guns blazing. Oh, and here's a bunch of GKTs in your face. How do you like them apples?

:)

And I now have a new sig.

:)