creating a flawed chapter

[greatcrusade08]

Ok so heres my plan.

 

I have in mind a chapter that thorugh mutation of its gene-seed was no longer able to 'grow' the black carapace implant.

Obviously they are now a chapter of carapace wearing marines (scouts),

 

Fleet based and experts at hit and run and infiltration tactics and excel at night attacks.

they are unique in that they only display thier chapter colours/insignia on one shoulder, the rest of thier armour and camo gear is chosen to reflect the environments they fight in (true camoflague)

 

I want this to coincide with my own DIY scout codex.. i know there is one already in the DIY section, but i want to make my own as close to the actual codex as possible.. ill post a link when ive done the work.

 

i really need help fattening out the details and back story etc.. any help would be greatly appreciated.

I also need a good name for the chapter and its heroes.

 

Gc08

[Mal]

How are you going to do army commanders, there are no carapace wearing commander options...

 

As for name, the first thing that srings to mind is 'The Hidden Aquila'

[JamesI]

I had a friend do something similiar. He gave all the HQs Artificer armor, and made it using really fancy scout armor.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

I have in mind a chapter that thorugh mutation of its gene-seed was no longer able to 'grow' the black carapace implant.

Obviously they are now a chapter of carapace wearing marines (scouts),

 

The first thing that strikes me is "Why would the High Lords allow such a Chapter to continue to exist, when there are other Chapters that could use the recruits?".

 

To deal with that issue, why not introduce a little desperation to your Chapter by having them under a permanent threat of disbandment? In other words, if you don't prove yourself, then you risk getting disbanded and sent off to die on a near-suicidal last crusade.

If you wanted to carry that even further, you could have them using entirely recycled gene-seed - in other words, Mars and the High Lords consider them a dead loss and do not keep gene-seed stocks for your Chapter any more. As a result, you must recover the gene-seed from your fallen if the Chapter is to survive.

[soddinnutter]

They would still be able to wear other patterns of Power Armour; Sisters of battle and Inquisitors manage reasonably well. It would just look more 'clunky' than a normal chapter.

 

But a whole scout army does sound good.

 

Names:

The Unseen

Murder of Shades

Emperors Malice

Bringers of Woe

Harbingers

Angels of Havoc

Reavers

 

Or you could take the secretive nature of the chapter to the extreme and only write about them from the point of view of others who would not know their name, only the Archive number the Mechanicus gave them at the time of founding.

 

 

Maybe even the ship could be made stealthy.

 

A rebel leader gets a report that something has come out of the Warp.

No object is detected.

A week goes past with the rebellion ticking over nicely and the Imperial being driven back further and further.

Next day all his lieutenants are found dismembered, barricaded in bunkers locked from the inside.

Next day their replacements are found hanging from the trees.

The day after that they open the doors of his Doom Fortress and offer the Rebel Leader the chance to run, because they feel like a bit of sport today.

 

In payment they demand repair material for any damaged gear and the contents of several orphanages for new recruits.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

They would still be able to wear other patterns of Power Armour; Sisters of battle and Inquisitors manage reasonably well. It would just look more 'clunky' than a normal chapter.

 

That stuff is hard to come by unless you've got a standing order with the Mechanicus. That said, it is the perfect reason for why your HQs still wear power armour (a few individual sets is fine).

[greatcrusade08]

I like tyraks ideas, they could be considered renegade perhaps?.. definately keeping recycled gene-stock (which would mean the no Black carapace is permanent)

 

New recruits could be taken from worlds they save.

no PA/TDA means most equipment is basic enough to be reproduced

[The Normish]

Good idea. I don't see why HQ should have to wear power armor. You can easily convert characters for Scout armor, with a little imagination. Add some icons, add some capes, add some character heads...

Only problem, how do they fight in the void of space? Maybe you should convert some helmets for them.

[greatcrusade08]

obviously they are limited in what they can do, hence thier affinity with certain types of warfare.. id have them as an infiltration force

[Grand Master Tyrak]

I like tyraks ideas, they could be considered renegade perhaps?.. definately keeping recycled gene-stock (which would mean the no Black carapace is permanent)

 

They don't have to be renegade (although you could go that way if you wanted), it's just the idea of the Efficiency Axe hanging over them.

[Mal]

Could also blag an =][= lord in as the proxy chapter master, and then not worry at all about needing a PA armoured HQ...

 

P.s. Gc08, could you bring 2 scout bodies (heads and arms if you can spare them) when you come on wednesday please, I need them for the LSS.

[Ferrata]

I think the best way to make this chapter is not to answer the question "How do they survive?" Simply have it that they don't. A chapter which cannot wear Power Armour is a pointless chapter for the Imperium. There is no point arguing that scouts are useful, I agree that they are, but they don't make a chapter. This chapter has been created, and it has failed. Now they just wait to die, fighting each battle as it comes and hoping it isn't their last. There is no future for them, they are doomed to die because they remain "young".

 

Also, keep the conversation to the background and not modelling.

[greatcrusade08]

Thats quite an interesting take actually!

Although i dont agree they would fade and die, simply that they wouldnt be as 'useful' as a standard SM chapter.. they would still have progenoids and be able to create new 'marines'. Although they would have to adapt quickly to thier new roles and tactics.

 

I do agree with the imperium stance however, which is why hey may have to be renegade

[soddinnutter]

Simpely being a bit defective is not enough for the Imperium to declare them renagade. reguardless of their deficiencies they could still inflict a large amount of damage before they are put down, and would the Imperium gain from this conflict?

 

Withholding they gene-seed paid in tithe and held on Mars and just letting them die out on their own is more the Imperiums way. its more cost effective and will not alienate the other chapters the same.

[Guest Mordray]

That's just it though... by GW's own statement... it is the black carapace that makes a marine.

 

Personally I'd imagine this chapter would find itself cut off and forced to rely upon themselves only... much as Soddinnutter said above...

 

The chapter would be expected to continue to perform it's duty but they will be hard pressed... those other suits are not nearly as effective as TT might lead you to believe.

 

The Black Carapace turns marine power armor into a second skin and it is said that that fusion results in marines being even more agile in their armor then they are out of it.

 

The way a marine moves and fights is different then how say a Sister or Inquisitor. Even if they are employing powered armor it is not the same. Without that man/machine fusion that occurs with the marine and his armor all others must learn to behave and function differently. This is going to hamper their fighting ability. It is possible that the Codex could account for this but I find it unlikely... more then likely your chapter is going to find themselves rethinking how they fight entirely.

 

 

On a side note... this project reminds me of a chapter I had concepted out whose gene-seed was failing them... they still had all the organs but most no longer worked as well as they should be. Only the progenoids and black carapace remained undiminished...

 

Nothing came of them though and instead elements of them were incorporated into my current project the Void Reavers... though it is interesting to see another flawed chapter... they are rather rare...

[Prosedragon]

Is there really a need for them to be renegade? A marine without power armor is worth way less, but how much does their cost go down? Give them ships more suited to their role, which are probably cheaper as well, and all in all you still have a force that's about as cost effective as regular marines.

 

A loyal marine, even one in carapace armor, is a terrible thing to waste.

[Captain Kael]

I tried creating a scout based chapter earlier this year. Although it failed, I would still love to create one or see one that works. You, my friend, have a solid idea. Makes me wish I had thought of it. :P

 

The points others have brought up do seem to be problems. The lack of space warfare and the ability to not function fully as a marine is a drawback. But, like you said you want them to be an infiltration force. Well maybe you could have good relations with the inquisition and be tasked to infiltrate and assassinate key enemy leaders or potential threats. Or if the Inquisition needs a planet claimed or an enemy force taken care of quietly, with others having limited knowledge or no knowledge of the campaign, then they might turn to your chapter. So potentially you are at the command of the Inquisition, but in return, you chapter is spared.

 

A possible route you could take?

 

I would love to help you more on this chapter and I would love to involved in expanding it.

 

Captain Kael ;)

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Well maybe you could have good relations with the inquisition and be tasked to infiltrate and assassinate key enemy leaders or potential threats. Or if the Inquisition needs a planet claimed or an enemy force taken care of quietly, with others having limited knowledge or no knowledge of the campaign, then they might turn to your chapter. So potentially you are at the command of the Inquisition, but in return, you chapter is spared.

 

The Inquisition can get the Officio Assassinorum to do the first, and the Chamber Militant to do the second, both without expending any favours. The only way these guys would be preferable is if the Inquisitor(s) in question is of a Radical bent, and doesn't want to risk going down official channels. He/they can then blackmail you into helping them in return for your continued survival.

[soddinnutter]

@Captain Kael - Space warfare is not really a problem. atatch heavy carapace to a void suit. Both are probably derived from STC patterns so there is going to be a certain level of interchangability.

 

 

 

The Inquisition has no direct say over what any chapter does. they have to either requisition a Guard Regiment or petition another Chapter to deal with a Chapter they want quietly disapearing. They would not be able to do the first without alienating most Chapters, and possibly starting a smaller version of the Badab War, and they can not do the second unless they can go to a Chapter with completely irrefutable proof of the others Damnation. And even then if the attacking Chapter is finds out tat the =I= is lying, as they would during the first reconicence mission, than that =I= will probably be killed and have his corpse hung off some famos landmark as a warning to the next ten generations that stupid is punishable by death.

No Chapter will accept 'because they lack an implant' as a valid excuse for extermination. Easpecialy not a child of Dorn.

[greatcrusade08]

if the Inquisitor(s) in question is of a Radical bent, and doesn't want to risk going down official channels. He/they can then blackmail you into helping them in return for your continued survival.

 

ooooh me likey, ill get something written up and let you take a look-see

[Captain Kael]

He/they can then blackmail you into helping them in return for your continued survival.

 

Well I was kind of heading in that direction.

 

 

So hows it going? Any updates?

 

Captain Kael ^_^

[heretic??ME??]

Ok interesting idea... I thinking that if a chapter did fall into this situation their role as marine would essentially be over. The resources, home world and fleets etc are going to be forfeit to another chapter.

 

The level of casualties compared to a normal chapter are going to be massive.

Would they put up a fight or follow orders? In my eyes the chapter would either be sent off on suicide missions or deployed in a recon fashion by another chapter or imperial institute, maybe an inquisitor would employ them.

 

Don't forget they will be no techmarines, limited armory, cut ties to Mars etc.

If new chapter was created these guys could be used in the training of new recruits. Either way this chapter is on its way out.

[soddinnutter]

Ok interesting idea... I thinking that if a chapter did fall into this situation their role as marine would essentially be over. The resources, home world and fleets etc are going to be forfeit to another chapter.

 

Forfeit by who exactly? They exist independent of the rest of the Imperium. much like the Mechanicus and the Leauge of Core Worlds.

 

The level of casualties compared to a normal chapter are going to be massive.

 

Not if they never see you.

 

Would they put up a fight or follow orders? In my eyes the chapter would either be sent off on suicide missions or deployed in a recon fashion by another chapter or imperial institute, maybe an inquisitor would employ them.

 

The chapter can not be 'sent'. An imperial institution make a request for the Chapter to grace them with their precence and the Chapter may or may not heed their plee.

 

Any Inquisitor who wields their own Chapter would wield too much power and, if they are not prepared to let the other Inquisitors use it, may have the sort of accident that Gouvenor Osseric the Loopy had.

 

Don't forget they will be no techmarines, limited armory, cut ties to Mars etc.

If new chapter was created these guys could be used in the training of new recruits. Either way this chapter is on its way out.

 

Why would they have no Techmarines? or loose ties to Mars?

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Ok interesting idea... I thinking that if a chapter did fall into this situation their role as marine would essentially be over. The resources, home world and fleets etc are going to be forfeit to another chapter.

Forfeit by who exactly? They exist independent of the rest of the Imperium. much like the Mechanicus and the Leauge of Core Worlds.

 

They'd go back to the Mechanicus, I imagine. They can then keep them in mothballs until the next Founding. Given the permanent demand for equipment (especially TDA), the AdMech aren't going to let people walk off with restricted Astartes technology, especially with lots of other Chapters clamouring for replacement gear.

 

Would they put up a fight or follow orders? In my eyes the chapter would either be sent off on suicide missions or deployed in a recon fashion by another chapter or imperial institute, maybe an inquisitor would employ them.

The chapter can not be 'sent'. An imperial institution make a request for the Chapter to grace them with their precence and the Chapter may or may not heed their plee.

 

Very true. On the other hand, if the "request" turns out to be genuine (and 99.9% are - you don't petition a Chapter lightly) and you do not have a Very Good Reason for not following it up then you will be guilty of dereliction of duty. As a result, the rest of the Imperium (including your brother Chapters) are going to be rightfully annoyed at you, and you will inevitably be censured.

 

Independence from Administratum control does not give you carte blanche. It makes the Astartes a self-policed organisation. These "requests" and "petitions" are termed so for diplomatic reasons - you don't want to annoy the Astartes. Equally though, the Astartes cannot get away with rubbing everybody else up the wrong way (with a few rare exceptions like being First Founding) or else their brother Chapters will turn up and politely insist that they get back to work and stop insulting the honour of the Adeptus Astartes.

 

Any Inquisitor who wields their own Chapter would wield too much power

 

Very true, for the same reasons that Chapters are not supposed to go above 1000 Marines or possess ships capable of taking on the Imperial Navy.

[Ace Debonair]

Don't forget they will be no techmarines, limited armory, cut ties to Mars etc.

If new chapter was created these guys could be used in the training of new recruits. Either way this chapter is on its way out.

 

Why would they have no Techmarines? or loose ties to Mars?

 

They wouldn't have techmarines because chapters don't send scouts to train in the ways of the techpriest, and if they did, in this instance they might not be accepted.

 

I'm intrigued by this concept.

I see a chapter in this scenario possibly making certain to operate alongside other Imperial forces when possible, to cut back on the potential of suffering heavy losses.

 

Perhaps they could even forge close ties with a couple of mechanicus-friendly chapters who might be prepared to share some equipment once every decade or so.

(This is probably an implausible idea, but wouldn't it be cool? ;) )

 

Also, which geneseed did you have in mind to take this chapter from? It's not a huge detail, I know, but it might help shape how the chapter would survive.