Vyre Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Hi there, I'm a new forum member. I stopped playing 40k some 5ish years ago, but have recently rekindled that old fire for modelling, painting, and table top battles! But I'm having a small problem I'd appreciate some help with. Using the Chaos army I made all those years ago, I really like the idea of inventing my own chapter/renegade warband of marines who have turned away from the teaching of Chaos and are surviving on their own terms. Thus I can enjoy the diverse and fun armory offered by the chaos army (perhaps omitting things like demons to represent my warband not being dedicated to the Gods) without having to bin my models and start space marines just to appease game expectations. In the past I used a predominantly 'Khorne'-ish army where my main tactic was to throw my Lord into the enemies and watch the carnage. I still definiately feel that I want my Lord to be very deadly in close combat, but I don't know whether I can have my Lord sporting the Mark of Khorne without defying game lore too much. I was thinking about giving my Lord the mark of Khorne for the +1 attack (and the option of using the bloodfeeder daemon weapon), but story-wise he would not be a frothing maniac. The +1 attack stat would represent his incredible skill in close combat, and model-wise I would likely only include the mark on the weapon and not on the Lord. I'd like to ask, is this being too cheeky and taking advantage of the rules? Game-wise, the points would be spent and I might include the mark on the daemon weapon (especially if its a bloodfeeder) so it should all abide by the strict rules. But, am I likely to cause problems with opponents who disagree with my modelling (who might state that a Lord with the mark must look a certain way)? Any advice would be appreciated. - Vyre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Welcome back to the Hobby and welcome to the B+C. I don't think it would be cheeky to take a Khorne marked lord for the extra attack and bloodfeeder, though I think the undivided demon weapon is better and safer. For your idea, I would avoid most cult troops and demons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyre Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Thank you for the welcome, and thanks for the response! I agree that cultists will be something I'll certainly steer clear of, and likely demons too. Hmm... If my Lord is marked with Khorne, does he have the option of using an Undivided daemon weapon? Or is that only for Undivided lords? The codex seems to imply a Mark confers a specific weapon, but I was just hoping to clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 No mark required for the undivided daemon weapon. You could say he has none. Twin Claws are also nice for a lord. You can pack a combi-melta as well for the punch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Mark of Khorne = can only use the Bloodfeeder Daemon Weapon, though regular weapons (e.g. Lightning claws) are still available to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I would go with MoK and LC's or unmarked w/ D. weop. Modelingwize you don't have to include the actual khorne mark on anything. chaos marks are not included in wysiwyg. And no, you would not be taking advantage of the rules if you were to give him MoK . MoK costs 10 pts and give +1 attack, the +1 attack need not be from worshipping K, could just be that he is an experienced fighter, or very fast. You pay your 10 pts, you've met the rule. oh, welcome back and welcome to b&c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiemnex Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 chaos marks are not included in wysiwyg. Is there something that specifically states this? Because I had a guy throw a bloody fit on me recently because my Iron Warrior Daemon Prince is not painted green or he is not holding something that says mark of nurgle. He said he lost the fight because his tactics would have been different if he knew.... Obviously we all know that 6 toughness on one model does not win the game regardless of what is happening. So shortly after this guy threw a fit the store manager told me that my daemon prince was not wysiwyg and therefore i could no longer use it with mark of nurgle until it was modeled that way. To be honest, the guy who works at this store is friends with the guy and the guy that I keep having to play due to this campaign is a SORE loser.. He comes up with an excuse everytime and 95% of the time the dude cheats anyhow. Several people have brought it up and the manager does very little. Enough venting and sorry to highjack your thread.. Does it state anywere that marks do not fit into wysiwyg??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 There is no specific rule that states you don't have to model a Mark, but remember that a Mark could be just about anything. It doesn't have to be a perfect representation of the Khorne symbol, it could just be that really cool sword that Khorne gave you, or your cloak, or a red splotch on your left knee. You could point to just about any piece of detail on your model and say, "that, there is my mark of Khorne," and there's really no legitimate objection to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Lord Shamrockius Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Welcome to B&C to Vyre, I would have thought that as long as you say at the beginning "he has MoK rule but it is generally a break away from the gods army hence no marks are shown". The other way to get around this I guess would be to put together an army list beforehand and hand him a copy. I would havet thought you could get round this in the "counts as" rule... in the same way people use Dreads for IW DPs or a particularly decorated Champion model as their Lord etc... Requiemnex - I have been considering this same concern as I am currently modelling a Daemon Prince which will generally be undivided (having a BL army and all) but from time to time may need to have a Mark of one type or another... I was considering either the above suggestion or... this may be cunning or stupid, you decide... have considered painting up the symbols from the vehicle decoration sprues for each mark and then putting them on cocktail sticks (or toothpicks if you're west of the Atlantic). Glue this to a piece of thin card to put on the base loose at the beginning of battles dependant on the need for each symbol. At £20 or so a pop for a DP, it's not as if you (and certainly not I) would want to paint it up in Nurgle or any other based colours just for the use in one battle. This is a great use of bits box fillers and is kind of ingenious at the same time. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiemnex Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Not only did i consider this but I started putting together something nearly exactly like it. It is sort of like a banner that will fit into a drilled hole in his base. I used the exact icons you are referring to on each banner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 That's just it, it doesn't say that the actual symbol of the god must be shown in order to represent the "mark". What does the favor of one of the gods look like ? How do wolf lords wysiwyg there sagas ? Your DP's axe could represent MoK, your DP's wings MoTz. My DP happens to have 2 skulls on one shoulder pad and 1 skull on the other (making of course, a triangle) I guess I could tell that tool, that was my representation of his MoN. Not that I've ever played anyone that objected to something so ridiculous. That would be like that spoiled brat throwing a fit b/c a wolf lord didn't "show" his saga and the tool mang. backing up that nonsense. The SW player could say that the wolf pelt cape represents the saga, or the wolf skull neckless does. Case closed, the baby and the tool don't have a leg to stand on between them. If you want to know what an opponents character is packing, you ask him. That's what I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I've seen counts as take more precident than WYSIWYG in tournaments, this one guy had a pink winged DP and a Black Legion DP and they both where Slaaneshi DPs with Lash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mad Balrog Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 (What does WSIWYG stand for? >.> I think I get the gist of it, but I don't know the acronym itself.) Personally, I think requiring that your units be have every single little last piece of wargear or special rule modeled on it is inefficient, elitist, and just plain stupid. Sometimes you simply CAN'T match the wargear to the rules. For example, a Chaos Sorcerer can spend 15 points to equip a Plasma Pistol... and yet when I ordered a "Chaos Sorcerer", they sent me a random version (1 of 3), which does not come with a plasma pistol option. Short of sawing off the arm of another unit and fitting it to the Sorcerer (which is beyond my abilities, or at least my patience), there's no way this Sorcerer unit is going to have a plasma pistol modeled on it. My solution to this was to paint the barrel of the bolt pistol that actually came with the model red, and saying "Yeah, it shoots warp-fire bolts that simulate the effects of a plasma pistol". If your opponent - and Games Workshop stores in general - are going to be that bitchy about it, I'd say you're better off playing with your friends. I just saw a guy this last weekend who was fielding a converted Adeptas Sororitas model as a "Daemon Princess" Chaos HQ unit in a store-sponsored battle, so I say do your own thing! I for one am NOT buying new models just to switch one little piece of wargear, or giving Games Workshop the satisfaction of making me change my army to fit their silly little unspoken rules. If it's a formal tournament, I can see submitting your points list and declaring what wargear/special rules each unit is using, but having three different Sorcerers (for example) to suit your different armies is prohibitively expensive and just plain stupid (see above). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 WYSIWYG = What you see is what you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The WarpGhost Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 My Nurgle DP for example is denoted by a rusted and corroded look (boltgun metal is the main colour scheme), rather than any actual 'Mark'. Fortunately, the fact that his army also includes a unit of 'Thousand Sons' and some un-Marked bikers would probably distract most complainant's attention from WYSIWYG on the DP ;) . Be aware that some people have a very inflexible and totalitarian attitude to Marks/alignment in Chaos forces; this guy and the store manager Requimnex was talking about probably just dont like anyone using Nurgle outside the Death Guard, because they think somehow thats the only time it should be allowed. An unfortunate consequence of the combination of appendix Legion lists in the last Codex and distaste for the core 'vanilla' list (which, contrary to popular remeniscing, still allowed mixed Marks). Your biggest problem from other people is likely to be that you're using Marks/Icons/Cult troops outside one of the Eight Legions, rather than WYSIWYG issues. However, you do hold the moral high ground, not them, so dont get put off by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askari Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 The most effective lord loadout is Khorne with twin lcs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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