hendybadger Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I have recently started building a Daemonhunters army. There were 2 reasons behind it. 1- I love the Grey Knight models 2- My wife has a large Daemon army They had thier first large scale game last night and something seemed wrong. I used 1 squad of GK Termies, 2 GK Landraiders, 4 units of PAGK troops and 1 Inq squad with HB Servitors. The =][= squad seemes to stand out in a bad way. I dont know if it was the models or how well they did in the game. I have only bought them because I liked the idea of the retinue and using Assassins. If you had a DH army would you run A- Pure Grey Knights B- GK and Inq mix or C- Inq heavy force? And why? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I used to run either pure GK or GK with a smattering of Inquisition (and usually some Seraphim, too). But that army hasn't weathered the change in rules from 4th edition to 5th edition. I (we?) often talk about mech armies (and I hope that by now the benefits of mechanization are clear enough), but for any infantry-based army, True Line of Sight has been at least as big of a problem. 4+ cover doesn't really make up for the inability to hide behind virtually any terrain piece ... especially when guns are getting more plentiful and cheaper every time a new codex gets released. And relying on 2-3 land raiders for the entirety of your "mech" won't cut it. (See comment about "cheap and plentiful guns", above). So the real answer to your question is: None of the above. Well, that's not quite fair. IMHO, if you build your C option ("Inq heavy") along these lines than you'll be at least relatively competitive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2211401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
morcus Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I would recomend mixed DH or using allies, as rules changes make a pure GK army difficult. As number6 said, the 5th ed is a mech ed so IST are essential, even if you just use them to get some rhinos so you can put your GK in them. You other option is to use an IG platoon or two to do the same thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2211463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I would recomend mixed DH or using allies, as rules changes make a pure GK army difficult. As number6 said, the 5th ed is a mech ed so IST are essential, even if you just use them to get some rhinos so you can put your GK in them. You other option is to use an IG platoon or two to do the same thing. Sadly, DH Rhinos remain truly dedicated. ISTs aren't allowed to let anybody else borrow them. ;) But you're right about inducted IG Chimeras. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2211533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendybadger Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 Personnaly Im trying to keep away from Allied units. But Im not that bothered about be competitive Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2211613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
- 7eAL - Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Off topic for a moment, but I noticed a concern: 2- My wife has a large Daemon army I'm not sure that building a force that will give a woman's army the beating of their eternal lives is a wise choice for any man. It's too late to stop you, but tournament-competitive and anti-Daemon competitive are two very different things. Keep them in mind, and don't do anything that would get you into trouble for unpleasant beardiness. Just because one can grow plenty of masculine facial hair does not mean that a woman, or anyone else for that matter, will like it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2211704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendybadger Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 Shes doesnt have a problem with them luckily. And she has a strange curse that makes her roll 6s everytime needed Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2212404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Thane Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Make a pure GK army. And keep a nice section of IST's and other DH goodness ready for large or other games. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2212511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendybadger Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 Is that what you have done? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2213004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Mel Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I personally like to throw cheap squishy stuff at my opponent, a bit like "Operation Human Shield". if you don't want an infantry platoon like me, IST are a close second choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2213116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Thane Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Is that what you have done? Currently I'm building a pure GK force. But if you have your heart set on a more 'competitive' build instead of a fluffy approach, you'll best add some Stormtroopers and/or allies eventually. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2213137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendybadger Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 Im much more of a fluff fan than a competitive fan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2213156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Thane Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Im much more of a fluff fan than a competitive fan Then a pure GK force would truly stand out. Besides if you change your mind you can always add an Inquisitor and/or assassin and/or IST's later on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2213186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendybadger Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 I have started with the pure GK already. They are great fun to play and look amazing Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2213350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Thane Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I have started with the pure GK already. They are great fun to play and look amazing Good call! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2213809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendybadger Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 My first 2 games with then were totaly different. Theres such a steep learming curve with them. Game 1 - Got wiped out by turn 3 Game 2- Lasted that game but lost on objectives Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2213870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
avatar8481 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Game 2- Lasted that game but lost on objectives Ultimately this is the weakness of the pure GK army. The troops are great, but they die as easily as space marines and their only armor is the very expensive LR. For this reason as well as others you find competitive DH builds drifting towards ISTs in chimeras or rhinos to get (relatively) cheaper troops in quantities that can obviate some of the problems that pure GK has. Also, IG allies do this exceptionally well, since you get cheap troops AND cheap vehicles compared to the DH chimera. To support this you can still take the bad-boys in silver (usually terminators in their raiders) but the troops become all squishy humans because you can take a lot of them and wrap them up in armor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2216470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendybadger Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Im really not keen on IG. No matter how good they can be or how much better the would make my army. I just dont like them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2217206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Fluff fan? Then forget units and battlefield roles and opponents and whatnot altogether. Imagine in your head the army you would like to represent. What sort of group is it? Where and how do they operate? What kinds of engagements have they fought? And what weapons do they bring to bear? Why? Make sure everything makes sense, has a rich backstory, and most of all, is just plain cool. ;) Then, and only then, figure out how to represent THAT army using the units and options in the codex. When you write the list, include squad/character/vehicle names, and equip everybody appropriately for their personality and history. When you build and paint the models, try to give at least the important ones real character. Paint battle damage that looks like it was caused by whatever foes they typically fight. And then, when you play the game, make sure to narrate as much as possible in order to bring the game to life, calling each unit/character by name and describing their actions in terms of what they would be doing in a real battle, rather than in terms of dice and stats. You've said this isn't applicable to you, but just to show you the 100% difference in approach, here's what to do if you want to be truly competitive. Step 1, pick a different Imperial army, be it Space Marines, IG, or Witch Hunters. Step 2, pick 1 or 2 Daemonhunters units that you think would be helpful: most likely an Inquisitor with Sages and/or GK Termies. Step 3, build a competitive list using your new parent army, leaving enough points over to squeeze in the DH squads. Step 4, playtest the hell out of your army, making appropriate changes to the roster and perfecting your strategy and tactics. Myself, I fall somewhere in between. I generally try to get a rough idea of the sort of army I want to represent, and then I pick the most effective units available to me that fit into that concept. I only name a couple of my guys (HQ usually), and I do fine-tune my list, staying within the bounds of the original concept. I like that I can still be reasonably competitive in casual environments, while still not losing sight of the fact that 40k is a fluff-driven game and that's why it's fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2217702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendybadger Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 I think I may fall between the 2 aswell. But definatly leaning more towards the fluff side of things. I know exactly what their common foe is. Its my wifes Daemon army Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2217712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 number6 would have you believe that the only way to use GK is to induct a unit of Terminators to ride around in your IG Chimera's and that's it. lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2220981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I personally use only GKs. Was at t tournament called The Seattle Hearts of Fire Tournament (TSHIFT) a few months before i deployed out here, and was not only the only one with a pure GK force, but the only one with ANY GKs at ALL! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2221008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendybadger Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 And how did you do? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2221044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyhawk Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I must say that it is the inquisitors that give me the most fun in the DH army. Too bad the squads fail on the tabletop. (at least on foot, without a transport) The henchmen are too squishy for my taste. If they could at least take more armour options (carpace for instance, say 5 pts.) then they would have more of a chance. Nothing too fancy, I don't want power armoured inq squads just a bit more survivability. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2221085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Not so great, but it didnt help that me and my two friends who rode with woke up late and missed out on the first round by 5 mins... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/186958-grey-knights-with-without-thoughts/#findComment-2221140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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