Some Witch Hunter clarifications please

[MadCowCrazy]

Hi,

I just played my first game of 40K vs a guy who played his 3rd game. We were both pretty noobs but he didnt seem to know his own codex rules which I pretty much did for mine.

We both made allot of mistakes and so fourth but I learnt allot about playing the game.

 

I used this army list because as I understood it its a really good list for 1000 points

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=179536

 

HQ: Canoness (1#, 133 pts)

. . 1 Canoness @ 133 pts (Auspex; Book of St. Lucius; Cloak of St. Aspira; Jump Pack; Mantle of Ophelia; Bolt Pistol x1; Eviscerator)

. . . . 1 Mantle of Ophelia

 

Fast Attack: Seraphim Squad (5#, 169 pts)

. . 4 Seraphim Squad @ 169 pts (Frag Grenades; Jump Pack; Krak Grenades; Twin Bolt Pistols x2; Twin Hand Flamers x2)

. . . . 1 Veteran Sister Superior (Jump Pack; Simulacrum Imperialis; Frag Grenade (Squad); Krak Grenade (Squad); Brazier of Holy Fire x1; Eviscerator)

 

Troops: Battle Sisters Squad (11#, 219 pts)

. . 9 Battle Sisters Squad @ 219 pts (Bolter x7; Meltagun x1; Heavy Flamer; Mount in Rhino)

. . . . 1 Rhino (Storm Bolter; Extra Armor; Smoke Launchers)

. . . . 1 Veteran Sister Superior (Book of St. Lucius; Brazier of Holy Fire x1; Bolter)

 

Troops: Battle Sisters Squad (11#, 209 pts)

. . 9 Battle Sisters Squad @ 209 pts (Bolter x7; Meltagun x1; Heavy Flamer; Mount in Rhino)

. . . . 1 Rhino (Storm Bolter; Extra Armor; Smoke Launchers)

. . . . 1 Veteran Sister Superior (Book of St. Lucius; Bolter)

 

Heavy Support: Exorcist (1#, 135 pts)

. . 1 Exorcist @ 135 pts (Exorcist Missile Launcher)

 

Heavy Support: Exorcist (1#, 135 pts)

. . 1 Exorcist @ 135 pts (Exorcist Missile Launcher)

 

 

A fiew problems arose during the game though, some of which Im hoping you guys can help with. There was the local pro there and he helped us some but he had his own ideas on some of the stuff compared to what I have read here on the forums.

 

Problem 1 :

1 Veteran Sister Superior (Jump Pack; Simulacrum Imperialis; Frag Grenade (Squad); Krak Grenade (Squad); Brazier of Holy Fire x1; Eviscerator)

1 Veteran Sister Superior (Book of St. Lucius; Brazier of Holy Fire x1; Bolter)

1 Canoness @ 133 pts (Auspex; Book of St. Lucius; Cloak of St. Aspira; Jump Pack; Mantle of Ophelia; Bolt Pistol x1; Eviscerator)

 

Both the VSS has 1 Brazier of Holy Fire, one has a Eviscerator the other a Bolter. The Canoness has a Bolt Pistol and a Eviscerator

The local pro said that because they had a 2h weapon they were not allowed the 1h weapons, BoHF and BP.

So whats the rule? Can you take 1 1h weapon and 1 2hweapon? or just 2 1h or 1 2h?

Can you take 2 BoHF? Would that mean you could fire your flamer 2 times in 1 game, or would they count as twin linked or like a heavy flamer?

 

Problem 2:

Book of St Lucius

The rulebook says any unit withing 6" use the wearers UNMODIFIED Ld for Morale and Pinning. From what Ive read on these forums this means your leadership can never be lowered pretty much.

I ended up in assault with a bunch of genestealers and they won assault with 3

The local pro said that I should take the VSS Ld (9) and do -3 = 6. From what Ive read I thought it wasnt affected by losses in assault. He was not sure so I rolled on 7 instead.

 

Hope someone knows the answers to these 2 problems I had.

[MadCowCrazy]

If anyone is wondering I won the battle trough Annihilation.

 

Mission was Objectives and we rolled a 5 for 3+2 objectives.

It was a complete mess on some of his reserves deployments and one of his HQ has to have a retine but he didnt have one with it. I let his gaunts roll armor saves from my heavy flamers and the list goes on. We both learnt allot though which is the most important part.

 

Basically I had my 5 Seraphim and Canoness left on one side of the map and 2 rhinos, 2 exorcists on the other side. He had some big guy near my seraphim and 7 Genestealers on one objective near my rhinos and exorcists.

 

The local pro suggested he assault my rhino (exorcists were too far away and behind some terrain) since it was the end of round 5 so he did and stunned it. We then rolled to see if the game continues which it did. My seraphim flamers burnt down his big HQ guy so he died and because he assaulted my rhino I could move my Exorcists so he no longer got a cover save. He was behind a 4+ cover most of the game but he was so close to my side that when I moved 6 I could see him from outside cover.

 

My first exorcist rolled 5 missiles, hit with 4 and wounded with 3 which mean instant death for 3, so 4 left.

My second exorcist rolled 4 missiles, hit with 4 missiles and wounded with 4 missiles killing his last genestealers giving me the win :huh:

[Legatus]

Both the VSS has 1 Brazier of Holy Fire, one has a Eviscerator the other a Bolter. The Canoness has a Bolt Pistol and a Eviscerator

The local pro said that because they had a 2h weapon they were not allowed the 1h weapons, BoHF and BP.

So whats the rule? Can you take 1 1h weapon and 1 2hweapon? or just 2 1h or 1 2h?

Can you take 2 BoHF? Would that mean you could fire your flamer 2 times in 1 game, or would they count as twin linked or like a heavy flamer?

As the introduction to th earmoury describes (Codex Witchhunters, page 20), a model may be equipped with two weapons, one of which may be two-handed. Perhaps the local pro meant that the models could not use both weapons (eviscerator and Brazier) at the same time in combat?

 

I somehow remembered that in 3rd and 4th Edition Codices models could not get the same item from the armoury twice, but from re-reading the entry in Codex Witchhunters it looks as if that only refers to wargear items, but not weapons.

 

 

Problem 2:

Book of St Lucius

The rulebook says any unit withing 6" use the wearers UNMODIFIED Ld for Morale and Pinning. From what Ive read on these forums this means your leadership can never be lowered pretty much.

I ended up in assault with a bunch of genestealers and they won assault with 3

The local pro said that I should take the VSS Ld (9) and do -3 = 6. From what Ive read I thought it wasnt affected by losses in assault. He was not sure so I rolled on 7 instead.

I am not sure either, after quickly browsing the Codex Witchhunters. There have been a few rules since 3rd Edition for models that do not suffer fromnegative modifiers when taking LD tests (examples would be the 3rd Edition Space Wolves' "No Matter the Odds", the 4th Edition Imperial Guard "Die-Hards" doctrine and the 5th Edition "Stubborn" universal special rule.) But in all those instances the rules say that the models "ignore negative modifiers" for their tests.

 

The way the rules for the Book of St. Lucius is phrased ("may use the bearer's unmodified Leadership value") it sounds more as if it refers to the model's standard Leadership value, without any modifiers the bearer himself might be under. For example, the bearer (with a basic LD of 9) might be under an effect that granted him +1 on his Leadership. Models using his Leadership via the Book of St. Lucius wouls still only benefit from his unmodified Leadership value of 9. Another example would be if the bearer's Leadership value (of 9) was lowered by some effect, such as Necron Pariah, an Imperial Culexus Assassin or the Imperial Guard "Weaken Resolve" power. Again, a unit using the bearer's Leadership would use the unmodified value of 9, and not the lowered value.

But I could not find specific examples of Leadership modifying effects in the Codex Witchhunters itself (I only flipped throough it and did not check all the wargear and unit special rules), so I am not sure if that is what the rule is refering to. Usually GW does not anticipate special rules from other Codices when writing the rules for one particular Codex.

[Ntin]

Problem #1:

In your codex on page 20 it outlines that character models have two weapons, one of which may be two-handed. A Brazier of Holy Fire is a one handed weapon and a Bolter or Eviscerator are both two handed weapons. So you may take two-one handed weapons or a one handed weapon and a two handed weapon. You may not purchase the same wargear item for the same character as described on page 20. If it was permissible you may only fire one weapon in the shooting phase per model (excluding a few exceptions), so you would get two flamer attacks each would be fired on a different turn.

 

Problem #2:

From my interpretation of “Book of St Lucius” it basically confers the “stubborn” universal rule. Losing on assault describes the following “Units taking this Moral Check suffer a -1 Ld modifier for each wound their side has lost the combat by.” The “Book of St Lucius” uses an unmodified leadership value and any detriment to leadership scores is a modifier. I am not 100% on this one though.

[Frosty the Pyro]

My interpritation of #2 is as legatus, that it means any changes to the bearers ld is ignored, but modifiers can still effect the target unit. But it is fairly ambigous.

[GTang]

Modifiers still affect, but are ignored because you may use the unmodified LD of the model that has the Book of St. Lucius instead of the modified LD of the unit or the model. This is different ("better") than similar abilities that don't say unmodified.

 

There are a few rare abilities that are LD stat changes rather than modifications. The normal -X LD for losing assault isn't usually considered one of them.