morkai's fang Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 after looking through our new codex i just dont see the point in sagas as far as i understand they dont do anyhting other then give you a target (oath to reach). i cant find anywhere in the codex where it says that the IC with the saga gains any bonuses. deos anyone think any different? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fenrisian Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 errr....page 64 tells you exactly what each does. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2213320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
morkai's fang Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 wups, sorry i seemed to have missed that page sorry guys Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2213328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhorse47 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Glad you are here Morkai! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2214411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 'Tis good to talk, and there is no such thing as a stupid question. Never be afraid to ask :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2214445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thylacine Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Sagas and Oaths came up this weekend at a store game. A couple of players in the local scene, who don't play Space Wolves are pushing for SW players to be punished if they take a Saga and don't fulfill the Oath. They were calling for some sort of hit on Sports or Composition for Oaths not being fulfilled by the end of the game, the problem is some of the other airheads who also don't play SW's thought this was a good thing. Plus a some time TO was in agreement, this fool has no love for SW's and constantly snipes at the rules/codex. If he manages to sneak it into a tournament next year, it may end up in all of them. Another example of someone wanting fluff to equal rules? What do you guys think of this lame idea? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2214598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedrake28 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 What do you guys think of this lame idea? Sounds... well, lame. Really lame. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2214604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Actually it'd be pretty damn unfair...after all we're already paying for the saga with alot of points....so making the goals of the oats more than just fluff would be unfair by all means..... Anyways, just ignore those morrons.....if they want to add it to the tournament....just don't participate.....I mean seriously, giving a disadvantage like this would only be fair if every damn army had one....like giving tau less points if their leader dies, khorne less points if they don't kill at least so and so much enemies n stuff like that...just bullcrap.... Anyways....like said above....just lame... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2214606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Sagas and Oaths came up this weekend at a store game. A couple of players in the local scene, who don't play Space Wolves are pushing for SW players to be punished if they take a Saga and don't fulfill the Oath. They were calling for some sort of hit on Sports or Composition for Oaths not being fulfilled by the end of the game, the problem is some of the other airheads who also don't play SW's thought this was a good thing. Plus a some time TO was in agreement, this fool has no love for SW's and constantly snipes at the rules/codex. If he manages to sneak it into a tournament next year, it may end up in all of them. Another example of someone wanting fluff to equal rules? What do you guys think of this lame idea? Tell him that youll punish the character by not running them with a squad vs tau in your next friendly game. Theres no RAW support for it, and until they can find one they can bite me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2214621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Sagas and Oaths came up this weekend at a store game. A couple of players in the local scene, who don't play Space Wolves are pushing for SW players to be punished if they take a Saga and don't fulfill the Oath. They were calling for some sort of hit on Sports or Composition for Oaths not being fulfilled by the end of the game, the problem is some of the other airheads who also don't play SW's thought this was a good thing. Plus a some time TO was in agreement, this fool has no love for SW's and constantly snipes at the rules/codex. If he manages to sneak it into a tournament next year, it may end up in all of them. Another example of someone wanting fluff to equal rules? What do you guys think of this lame idea? As a non-SW player, if I take a Power Fist and don't insta-kill someone I don't get a penalty. If I take a combi-melta and don't pop Armour I don't get a penalty. If the EC doesn't rip an IC or MC I don't get a penalty. It seems like they have a chip on their shoulder. :) If Oaths were ridiculously cheap/free then sure, SW are obliged to fulfill them and if they don't then take a penalty. But they are not so your locals are sounding off over nothing. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2214639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Hopefully this will go away with the introduction of C:Tyranids. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2214667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CainTheHunter Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Hopefully this will go away with the introduction of C:Tyranids. Oh yeah - everbyody will be complaining about their drop pod equivalents and new AP 0 weaponry ^_^. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2214676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Unfriendly posts and responses removed. Let's remember not everybody slides out the womb already knowing the ins and outs of the hobby. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2214794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 It would be interesting if there was an in-game penalty for failing an oath, but its not in the codex and shouldn't be added except in friendly games as something silly to do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2214818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 As a non-SW player, if I take a Power Fist and don't insta-kill someone I don't get a penalty. If I take a combi-melta and don't pop Armour I don't get a penalty. If the EC doesn't rip an IC or MC I don't get a penalty. -- LOL I don't think you can really compare these to the Oaths... Acutally for me the more important question is; Why aren't spacewolf players fulfilling the oaths they have taken? Its part of what makes spacewolves characterful at the moment, so I sayu if you take an oath, you have a moral obligation to at least 'try' and make it happen (not to the detriment of winning - 'cause thats what tournaments are concerned with nowadays). I would see no problem in players being marked down if they didn't at least 'have a go' at fulfilling the oath, its not exactly hard now is it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2214892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fenrisian Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Thats a fair point nurglepuss. Personally, I play SW for the whole idea of sagas of heroes taking on ridiculous odds and walking out victorious. I spend WAY too much time converting new ICs rather than painting my damn army! So for me, I'd say that really you should TRY to fulfill the oaths, but that's just me. I wrote a mini story for my Wolf Guard Battle Leader Vangir Greyfang, where he has Saga of the Beastslayer, because he took on a Carnifex single handedly to assist his Lord who was injured. As a result of his deed he is the Lord's personal champion. It seems that there might be a few bitter people who are using the fluff part of the oaths to get an advantage, which is just plain stupid. There's no rules to say that we have to be penalised for not fulfilling the oath, so making some up for tournaments is blatantly just someone going 'I think that this army is broken so I'll limit them so they don't win'. What's next? OMG! Nids are so broken, so we'll ignore the Synapse rule on synapse creatures to balance it out, so they'll have to check to see if the units lurk or not. Or we'll make Daemon Princes roll 4D6 to cast Lash of Submission? It'll all blow over in January, its just people chucking the toys out the pram over the newest codex. It's not really worth us stressing about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2214915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalur Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Acutally for me the more important question is; Why aren't spacewolf players fulfilling the oaths they have taken? Its part of what makes spacewolves characterful at the moment, so I sayu if you take an oath, you have a moral obligation to at least 'try' and make it happen (not to the detriment of winning - 'cause thats what tournaments are concerned with nowadays). I would see no problem in players being marked down if they didn't at least 'have a go' at fulfilling the oath, its not exactly hard now is it? Yes, some of them a trivial (saga of the hunter comes to mind), whereas it wouldn't be difficult to build an army against which it is impossible for the saga of the Beastslayer to be fulfilled. And if it comes down to winning the game or fulfilling the oath (thinking wolfkin and ironwolf here), what do you do then? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2215304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Well its a tournament, so your forced to break your oath at that point, and have to fight doubly hard to fulfil it in the next game! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2215446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Sagas and Oaths came up this weekend at a store game. A couple of players in the local scene, who don't play Space Wolves are pushing for SW players to be punished if they take a Saga and don't fulfill the Oath. They were calling for some sort of hit on Sports or Composition for Oaths not being fulfilled by the end of the game, the problem is some of the other airheads who also don't play SW's thought this was a good thing. Plus a some time TO was in agreement, this fool has no love for SW's and constantly snipes at the rules/codex. If he manages to sneak it into a tournament next year, it may end up in all of them. Another example of someone wanting fluff to equal rules? What do you guys think of this lame idea? Well I would pint of the part on page 64 in the 3rd paragraph, about half way down it says "Breaking an oath has no game effect, it is purely a matter of honor." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2215460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I try to remember the oaths and fulfill them but honestly I rarely use the sagas to begin with. My Characters never seem to accomplish much and the MVP's of my games always wind up being lone Grey Hunters, the sole survivors of their packs or a Wolf Guard Pack Leader who single handedly downed an Ork Warboss or something. Saga of the Beatslayer is deffinitely one where against some foes it's impossible to achieve your oath. Take Eldar for instance that use no Wraithguard, Wraithlords or War Walkers. In that case there's nothing in the army that would fulfill the oath and therefore no matter how well you do it's just not possible to do it. Which is one reason why there should never be detriments for not doing so in a tournament. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2215497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 As a non-SW player, if I take a Power Fist and don't insta-kill someone I don't get a penalty. If I take a combi-melta and don't pop Armour I don't get a penalty. If the EC doesn't rip an IC or MC I don't get a penalty. -- LOL I don't think you can really compare these to the Oaths... Acutally for me the more important question is; Why aren't spacewolf players fulfilling the oaths they have taken? Its part of what makes spacewolves characterful at the moment, so I sayu if you take an oath, you have a moral obligation to at least 'try' and make it happen (not to the detriment of winning - 'cause thats what tournaments are concerned with nowadays). I would see no problem in players being marked down if they didn't at least 'have a go' at fulfilling the oath, its not exactly hard now is it? Well I think you can compare the two things. They are, for all intents and purposes, equipment that is paid for. Why do SW have some burden placed on them when other Chapters do not? It is the same thing. Sometimes an Oath is not practical to even attempt. Charlie the Tyranid player may have deployed his Carnifex on the other side of the table, and not even to spite the SW player, purely to achieve his own goals. Should you have to run your WL across the table, ignoring dozens of viable Nid victims, to attack the Fex, who has been happily doing his thing and thinking "Why is that angry grey-shelled prey creature ignoring my kin?" ~ the Hive Mind replies "because the prey-creatures Commander has some social-kin who are acting without friendship in their hearts" All to fulfil the Oath - which could have been written as some special piece of equipment anyway..... Why would a SW player take an Oath and deliberately not want to fulfil it? - If an UM player bought Calgar I am pretty sure he would use him as best as the circumstances permitted. Why are SW being singled out? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2215763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Why are SW being singled out? because we are the new codex and there for automatically cheesy. people want to find some way of bringing down the new guy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2216096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
morkai's fang Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 Why are SW being singled out? because we are the new codex and there for automatically cheesy. people want to find some way of bringing down the new guy. ive never heard such wisdom! yes indeed this seems true. but the space wolves are the very very big new kid, like to see a UM pick on a space wolf! "ragnar blackmane! look everyone lets throw paper at him!" * last words of sicarius captain of the Ultramarine 2nd company* oh and warhorse thanks for the support Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2216115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Oaths are the SW way of theming a force, similar to C:SM characters offering advantages to their armies, yet I see no drawbacks for someone taking He'Stan or Shrike, they just benefit from it. I could understand perhaps some in game system if traits as in the 4th ed. SM codex still existed, where you were disadvantaged for gaining a certain advantage. It's not in the spirit of the game for someone to enforce a disadvantage upon someone because of potentially rotten luck. I myself try to achieve the oath, but then again I don't take a saga at games of 2500 points or less, I have other things to spend them on. I could perhaps agree in a campaign setting to suffer some disadvantage in a future game if the other players introduced a similar system for those with Chapter Tactics and the like. Seems like a bunch of jealous babies throwing their toys out of the pram. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2216129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldenhaller Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 If it were a wolf only tournament then I think it'd be fun... If you're going to play anyway and these are enforced...win anyway and show how much their rules affect you and laugh as your own saga grows ~O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187101-sagas/#findComment-2216151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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