hazardousZERO Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 OK so I'm going to be using a chapter master for the first time soon and wasn't quite sure how the ordnance bombardment rule works. I think its the big template but it says barrage does that mean its more then one template or is it just the one? Also the chapter master I'm going too be using has a PF and a jump pack any suggestions on how too employ him. My plan is reserve then drop him where i need him the most. Thanks...JOE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 OB is a single S10 large template, it scatters without reducing for BS. Jump pack is cool, but a fist is wasted on an IC, a relic blade would be far better use of his I5.. run him with an assault squad with twin falmer and hammer/fist on the sergeant for those big ugly scary things. my 0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazardousZERO Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 Sounds good. I'm using a SGT model for the CM with the Fist. I was thinking of changing it around with the Assault squad SGT (who has a power sword) and this decides it. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 If you're going to go with a mobile close combat character then buy a Captain instead of a Chapter Master. Not really any less killy but quite a bit cheaper. The Orbital Barrage is nice but you have to be stationary to use it. Save the points and take a Captain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 A friend of mine has recently tried running a CC Chapter Master, and weve found that about half the time, or a little more, if he stands there nad uses the template before he is going to assault that it scatters back onto his own forces. The rest of the time good wound allocation can deny him the gauranteed charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askari Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 He's using OB wrong, it makes no sense to use it on a unit you;re about to charge. You're supposed to either use it at the beginning of the game to knock out a unit before it can be a serious threat or fire it at an enemy unit when your chapter master is out of charge range and not engaged in CC. It's pretty situational and almost useless against some armies but it can be devastating when used correctly. Actually, if you put a chapter master with a defensive tac squad, he can add a nice amount of extra fire power through the OB and can charge off into would be attackers while the tac squad sits on the objective or add some cc punch to the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Im well aware hes not using it right, but in this case I wont be the one to tell him so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Nevertheless it's a chunk more points for a very situational weapon, and on a Jump Pack equipped close combat character nigh on pointless. Keep moving and get into assault with such a character. The only time I've ever used Orbital Bombardment is when using Calgar or Kantor, both of whom just sit there and shoot stuff till it gets close enough for a counter-charge, in those situations launching an orbital bombardment on a packed enemy unit early is fun but on a cc Chapter Master I'd rather save the points for some more bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askari Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Yeah a jump pack master doesn't use it but really a jp master is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazardousZERO Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 So judging from the comments i should just make him a CPT. I just reconverted him. he now has a relic blade. I'm gonna try him out and if i don't like it then o well ill change it next time. Thanks for all the input everyone even though I'm too stubborn too listen HAHAHA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Note that if you take a Bike you CAN move and shoot the OB because the Chapter Master becomes Relentless and therefore counts as stationary for purposes of shooting attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Sadly, you dont gain access to bikes as troops then though. *sighs*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Note that if you take a Bike you CAN move and shoot the OB because the Chapter Master becomes Relentless and therefore counts as stationary for purposes of shooting attacks. I asked this about TDA, as they are relentless too, but was told it didnt count.. am i getting my apples and oranges mixed up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Actually relentless has no effect. It's not a heavy weapon that relentless would enable to be fired. The Orbital Bombardment rule specifically states that it can only be firing provided the Chapter Master did not move in his previous movement phase. Relentless doesn't change that. So Bikes and TDA don't enable moving Orbital Bombardments I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 "Relentless models may fire rapid fire and heavy weapons counting as stationairy, even if they moved in the previous movement phase...." "... can be used on per game in the shooting phase provided the character did not move in the preceding movement phase..." I dunno, I can see relentless allowing that, as "stationairy" means "not moving" you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I don't see how it's even close though. Relentless specifically says it allows special and heavy weapons to be fired as if the model was stationary. It does not say "for all intents and purposes with regards to shooting attacks models with relentless count as stationary" which would be what it would have to say to allow Orbital Bombardment to be fired. OB isn't a heavy or special weapon and requires the model to be stationary to be fired. I don't see any room for argument there, but maybe that's just me. Stationary may mean "not moving" but that's only in regards to specific weapon types, not all shooting attacks period. To put it simply, bikes and Terminator armor don't allow OB to be fired on the move. If you want to use OB you have to stay put a turn. To be fair it's only one turn, but really I see little reason to take a Chapter Master over a Captain anyway unless you really like Honor Guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 How does "counts as stationairy" and "for all intents and purposes counts as stationairy" differ? Though I admit, its not a heavy weapon in its profile, wich is the RAW argument against this interpretation- Im just saying I can understand why people would feel it should work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Having had a wake up call recently on what people will challenge in the case of rules and wording, i think its best to assume it doesnt work with relentless to avoid arguments. although aslong as you disagree with your opponent the roll off may work to your own benefit (50/50 chance after all) GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Having had a wake up call recently on what people will challenge in the case of rules and wording, i think its best to assume it doesnt work with relentless to avoid arguments.although aslong as you disagree with your opponent the roll off may work to your own benefit (50/50 chance after all) GC08 I refuse to use that when there is a reasonable solution- reading the rules. Only in the case of a grey area should that be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I refuse to use that when there is a reasonable solution- reading the rules. Only in the case of a grey area should that be needed. Im the same, but im amazed at the ease some people quote "the most important rule".. ive found that even if we consider something plain and RAW others may not agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I refuse to use that when there is a reasonable solution- reading the rules. Only in the case of a grey area should that be needed. Im the same, but im amazed at the ease some people quote "the most important rule".. ive found that even if we consider something plain and RAW others may not agree. Ahh, but if they really want to quote it, then quote that you dont feel that the roll-off is in the spirit of the most important rule, and that instead they should simply accept your incredibly well informed opinion. If they continue to go off, roll off on that one, and then if they win, roll off on the matter at hand. Or better yet, state you feel you should receive a +1 bonus on the roll, due to your extensive research of the subject, known as "reading the rulebooks". They are of course, capable of insisting you roll off on wether or not you get the +1 bonus to all future rules related roll-offs. Then smack them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Ahh, but if they really want to quote it, then quote that you dont feel that the roll-off is in the spirit of the most important rule, and that instead they should simply accept your incredibly well informed opinion. If they continue to go off, roll off on that one, and then if they win, roll off on the matter at hand. Or better yet, state you feel you should receive a +1 bonus on the roll, due to your extensive research of the subject, known as "reading the rulebooks". They are of course, capable of insisting you roll off on wether or not you get the +1 bonus to all future rules related roll-offs. Then smack them. :( Its a shame your not local mate, youd make a great opponent. I guess most of this is just bitterness on my part.. i seriously see a rule that can be overused and abused and it concerns me. Generally most of my opponents are great guys and if my mates said they didnt think Calgar got +1A for two fists id except it and get on with the game (i wouldnt do this with strangers though).. i just have a problem with the over interpretation of rules to try and excuse peoples opinions. I could interpret nearly every rule in the book to suit me if i wanted, but this goes against the spirit of the game for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Vash is 100% correct. Relentless has NO effect on ORDINANCE weapons, its cut and dry. Be it TDA or a bike, you gots to stay still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingo Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Yeah, I gotta go with Vash too on that one. In TDA I'm sure all the systems would allow movement and ordering an OB, fluffwise, and for that reason I wouldn't mind playing it like that. But if someone asked me to justify it with rules, it wouldn't have a leg to stand on :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazardousZERO Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 So i tried out a CM yesterday and i wish i could tell you he kicked ass but. To say it nicely the warp took him and his whole 10 man assault squad. :) I did write my own rules for the one I'm going to try out next time. Ill be posting that as well as my list for this 2500point game soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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