Firedrake28 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 If you're going strictly by the fluff from 3rd edition, the 13th Company shouldn't take anything with an armor value (so no tanks, transports, Dreadnoughts or Speeders). Models in Terminator armor should be few and far between (since the 13th was an Infiltration force). Blood Claws are also a no-no, since the Index Astartes article explicitly stated that the 13th had no Blood Claws since they'd all either advanced to Grey Slayer status or died. This extends to Swiftclaw and Skyclaw packs as well (as the 13th didn't use jump packs at all in Codex: Eye of Terror). This leaves a 13th Company player with limited options for unit choices, but what remains happen to be some of the most deadly units in the entire Codex, so you can be assured of having an army full of extremely tough individuals. For HQ, really any of the options are perfectly acceptable. Wolf Lords are Wolf Lords, Rune Priests are Rune Priests and so on. The loss of The Gate hurts a bit, but it's nothing crippling. Most of the special characters fit the 13th Company's theme perfectly. Logan Grimnar's ruleset could easily represent Wolf Lord Bulveye (the Wolf Lord that led the 13th Company just as the Horus Heresy started). Njal Stormcaller has a fantastic ruleset - it's not unreasonable for the 13th Company to be in possession of one or more incredibly powerful Rune Priests after all. Ragnar Blackmane's rules could also easily be used to represent an especially martially talented Wolf Lord that lives for battle, especially if accompanied by a pair of Fenrisian Wolves. Troops are, to a point, pretty limited. Fortunately though, Grey Hunters are excellent and when given a few upgrades represent Grey Slayers perfectly. Every unit of Grey Slayers should have a single model with the Mark of the Wulfen. It's also very characterful for one of the Slayers to carry a power weapon or fist. Naturally, the standard is also a great choice. Any of the special weapons are perfectly acceptable. Elites should, in my opinion, be made up entirely of Wolf Guard and Lone Wolves. Wolf Guard are the best unit available to represent the Veteran Storm Claws, as they can be equipped with a staggering number of weapon upgrades. It's also possible to give Wolf Guard bikes in order to represent Storm Claw Bikers. Lone Wolves fit the 13th Company especially well to me, as I imagine them less as the last remains of a Pack, but more as individuals dangerously close to completely succumbing to the Curse of the Wulfen. For the safety of their battle brothers these individuals take to the field of battle alone. As far as upgrades go, I'd personally avoid Terminator armor (since the few remaining suits in the 13th's possession are so precious), but just about anything else is fair game. The Mark of the Wulfen would obviously be extremely characterful. Fast Attack really only leaves Fenrisian Wolf and Thunderwolf Cavalry units, but that's not really much of a weakness. :) The Wolves from Codex: Eye of Terror are perfectly represented by the new Wolf packs in Codex: Space Wolves. As I described in an earlier post in this thread, Thunderwolf Cavalry can be represented by modeling two or three Wulfen onto a single 60mm base - the rules for the Thunderwolf Cavalry take care of the rest. Last but not least, Long Fangs make up the entirety of the 13th Company's Heavy Support options, but since Long Fangs are so deadly it's really not much of a loss. Personally I'd stay away from weapons like multi-meltas and plasma cannons since I don't believe that they were in use by infantry until well after the Horus Heresy, but everything else is fair game. Hope this is helpful to somebody! EDIT: I took a few moments to come up with this 1,500 point list using what I've written above as a guideline. HQ Wolf Lord - Frost blade - Storm shield - Space Marine Bike - Wolf tail talisman Rune Priest - Bolt pistol - Runic weapon - Chooser of the Slain - Living Lightning - Tempest's Wrath (or Storm Caller - your choice) TROOPS 9 Grey Hunters - Meltagun - Wolf Standard - Mark of the Wulfen - 6 Grey Hunters with bolters, pistols and close combat weapons 9 Grey Hunters - Meltagun - Wolf Standard - Mark of the Wulfen - 6 Grey Hunters with bolters, pistols and close combat weapons 10 Grey Hunters - 2 with plasma guns - 8 with bolters, pistols and combat weapons ELITES - 2 Wolf Guard with bolters and power fists (join the 9 strong Grey Hunter units) - 1 Wolf Guard in Terminator armor with cyclone missile launcher (joins the 10 strong Grey Hunters) - 4 Wolf Guard on Space Marine Bikes with bolt pistols and close combat weapons - 1 Wolf Guard on Space Marine Bike with Mark of the Wulfen - 1 Wolf Guard on Space Marine Bike with bolt pistol and thunder hammer (all Wolf Guard on Bikes form a single unit with the Wolf Lord) FAST ATTACK 4 Thunderwolf Cavalry 12 Fenrisian Wolves Total: 1,498/1,500 This list is anti-tank light, but feels (at least to me) like a very strongly themed 13th Company list. The basic battle plan with this army is for the fastest units (the Storm Claw Bikers with Lord, Thunderwolf Cavalry ((in the guise of Wulfen)) and Fenrisian Wolves) to zoom forward early on, presenting early threats and hopefully drawing some fire so that they slower elements of the army (namely the two smaller Grey Slayer packs) to get into position. The largest Grey Slayer Pack is to get into an optimal firing position as early as possible and then lay down covering fire with their plasma guns and the Wolf Guard's cyclone missile launcher. If required, this unit can still provide fire support on the move since models in Terminator armor are able to move and fire heavy weapons. The biggest problem for this army is going to be highly mobile armies and mechanized armies. The classic Mech Tau or Eldar list will probably shred the 13th with ease. Imperial Guard will probably also pose a problem through a combination of tons of firepower and large numbers of armored vehicles. Unfortunately, I don't see any way around these issues without sacrificing the army's theme. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187193-new-13th-company-lists/page/2/#findComment-2216296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chodjinn Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I wouldn't have thought the 13th would have the ability to use drop pods at all either, since they appear out of the warp. But you could use them to represent that, and the Gate. Although if you used and entire drop pod force then it could count as a proxy, but you'd be using a lot of much needed points. I think a lot of fenrisian wolves would be good to act as a meat shield, plus one or two long fangs squads. One old tactic was to use the gate with a RP and squad of Long Fangs, you could use a drop pod here and also have the benefit of cheaper LFs and a larger squads size. 5 missile launchers, leader, RP with Runic armour & Tempests Wrath and LL, and WG in TDA with Cyclone will put pain on anyones day for 350-odd points. And a storm shield on the WG if you have points. I also think Lone Wolves fit in perfectly with the theme of the 13th. Even to allow one or two TDA guys in a build. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187193-new-13th-company-lists/page/2/#findComment-2216399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgambit Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 In the 13th Company list Long Fangs are their only heavy selection so they fit just fine :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187193-new-13th-company-lists/page/2/#findComment-2216411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athalus Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 I am going with the old eye of terror list, and just using only those units. My theoretical list is here: 13th company List It really heavily focuses on using wolves n bikes. I might tweak it to have less bikes and more GH with drop pods. I really like the TWC, and can't wait to use them. Also, long fangs are a must. I found they dominated any game I played with the old rules, along with my bikes, and let me just destroy tau armies and the like - not to mention teleporting a group of greyslayers with meltas n hammers/fists into their long range armaments. I think a drop pod would really help this, and is conceivable substitute for teleport. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187193-new-13th-company-lists/page/2/#findComment-2216569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The WarpGhost Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 My current list: Rune Priest (Chooser, meltabombs; LL + SC) 5x Wolf Guard (4x powerfists j/ Hunters; 1x frostblade + plasma pistol j/ Scouts) 5 Wolf Scouts (meltagun, 2x plasma pistols) Lone Wolf (MotW) 10 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, flamer, MotW) 3x 8 Grey Hunters (2x meltaguns, 1x plasmagun, 3x MotW) 5 Wulfen [TWC] 5 Long Fangs (4x missile launchers) 4 Long Fangs (3x heavy bolters) I've only had a couple of gmes, but have won them both. I am planning to move to a more mechanised force; with the loss of the footslogging rules that made 13th Company the force they were, I see little reason to ling to it out of nostalgia. I never quite bought into the 'official' line on 13th Company, so have little trouble reconciling this on principle. Nonetheless, I am retaining more of a 'light forces' feel to any mechanisation. I'll coninue to plug away with footsloggers for the moment however. Wulfen (Thunderwolves) have been very nasty, although as before morale is going to be a weakness. Long Fangs are much more viable under the new rules, although mine are rather rstricted simply by what I have in my collection. Grey Hunters have been OK; theyre a solid troops, but they do lack the bite of the old Grey Slayers. Scouts I cant really judge at this time. I wouldnt mind having my Wolf Lord, for fluff reasons, but Im having a very hard time justifying it with only Troops scoring (although I've ended up only playing Kill Points so far!), and warm bodies being important. I've ditched Fenrisian Wolves; I never liked them even under the old rules (I was one of the few who could never get much use from them, even in good situations), and now they add even less. Fortunately, Scouts, Long Fangs and the new Wulfen offer opportunities. I also was someone who never found Gate any use in the 'classic' role, although it provided effectiveness in a more general mobility front, so it's no real loss. I also fortunately never got round to putting together my Storm Claws Bikers, as theyre really no longer much good for the intended role; my heavily mechanised CSM army is happy to inherit them! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187193-new-13th-company-lists/page/2/#findComment-2216592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgambit Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I like the idea of using the chaos codex to represent the 13th company so I came up with a list tonight to play test against my buddies. Rune Priest (Chaos Sorc) 140 pts. -mark (+1 init) -gate (lash) -pp Wulfen x 12 (possessed) 362 pts -mark (+1 toughness) Long Fangs (Havocs) 155 pts (2 packs of these) -sarg -4 x ml Storm Claws (zerkers) 229 pts. (3 packs of these for troop choices to score) -8 x bp/ccw -1 x sarg with pf Depending on the mission I figured I would attach the rune priest to the wulfen and attempt to push foward and draw enemies into close combat range with gate (lash) and use at least one pack of storm claws to hold a rear objective with the long fangs popping transports. AV 13/14 is gonna be tough with only ML's but I figured i'd give it a shot and see how it goes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187193-new-13th-company-lists/page/2/#findComment-2216673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Thats why I run the 3 bikers with 2 Melta Guns. Much needed mobile anti-tank. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187193-new-13th-company-lists/page/2/#findComment-2216676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Hands up who owns the 2nd Edition codex, which is the first mention of the 13th company? I've got it Sama; what info are you looking for? V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187193-new-13th-company-lists/page/2/#findComment-2216814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon23516 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I too started with my 13th Co. model collection and am adding from there. Since the Slayers and Storm Claws were all considered "veterans" and came with 2 base attacks and cost 20+ points each, it makes sense that squads of Wolf Guard would match this perfectly and for less than 20 points each. Make all your Slayers trade in a bolt pistol for the free Bolter and you're good. "Logan Grimnar" as your grizzled 13th Co. Wolf Lord and now all your Wolf Guard count as Troops. My "replacement" for the Gate is to put everyone in Drop Pods. The list I'm currently running are Wolf Guard squads of: 8 WG w/stormbolters + WG Terminator/Cyclone in Drop Pod. 6 Long Fangs, 5 Multi-melta in Drop Pod (Grimnar joins the Long Fangs to give them Relentless etc.) Deviating from 13th Company "fluff" I then finish with 3 Dreadnoughts with multi-melta/flamer in Drop pods. Whole army in 8 pods. 2000 points. Every unit has duality for anti-tank and anti-infantry. Changes I'm thinking of making: Replacing 3 'podding Dreads with 3x2 Landspeeders with MM/HF (almost the same cost) Replacing all WG stormbolters and termie/cyclone with 5 combi-meltas. Unit will retain good CC and have 5 chances per game to blow up tanks. I'm now playing with dropping a DreadPod and WG/Pod to add 5 Thunderwolf Cav and 15 Fen Wolves. I would agree that any of the Claw units (Blood, Sky or Swift) would be too out of character to represent 13th Company. Never used the bikers before, no comment. Enjoy, Jon Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187193-new-13th-company-lists/page/2/#findComment-2221752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Hands up who owns the 2nd Edition codex, which is the first mention of the 13th company? I've got it Sama; what info are you looking for? V I own it too. But if people were to read it, they would know the '13th Stone' has always represented all the lost companies and wolves who had left the fold. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187193-new-13th-company-lists/page/2/#findComment-2222106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Hands up who owns the 2nd Edition codex, which is the first mention of the 13th company? I've got it Sama; what info are you looking for? V I own it too. But if people were to read it, they would know the '13th Stone' has always represented all the lost companies and wolves who had left the fold. Ah, I see. Well, as you accurately stated earlier in this thread, the actual 13th Great Company, led by Jorin Bloodfang (for some inexplicable reason called Jorin Bloodhowl in the new codex) is quite different than the 'Lost Companies'. The 13th Stone on the Grand Annulus has come to represent both, the original 13th as well as later Lost companies. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187193-new-13th-company-lists/page/2/#findComment-2222115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 you know, when the new dex came out, I thought it was just me being wrong, but I looked at 'Jorin Bloodhowl' and thought....'no? that's not right is it?' Wonder why they did that? Especially as they have a current Wolf Lord called Bloodhowl also. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187193-new-13th-company-lists/page/2/#findComment-2222126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 you know, when the new dex came out, I thought it was just me being wrong, but I looked at 'Jorin Bloodhowl' and thought....'no? that's not right is it?' Wonder why they did that? Especially as they have a current Wolf Lord called Bloodhowl also. I'm sure that is exactly what happened. Someone had been typing out the Wolf Lord names for that page and had just typed Sven Bloodhowl a few minutes prior and had that on the brain. Instead of later typing Jorin Bloodfang, the writer was on autopilot, daydreaming about jellybeans, typed Bloodhowl again by mistake, and the top-notch editing crew at GW design somehow missed it. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187193-new-13th-company-lists/page/2/#findComment-2222137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I should be thankful that at least he wasn't called 'Jorin Bloodbowl' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187193-new-13th-company-lists/page/2/#findComment-2222163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I wouldn't have thought the 13th would have the ability to use drop pods at all either, since they appear out of the warp. But you could use them to represent that, and the Gate. Although if you used and entire drop pod force then it could count as a proxy, but you'd be using a lot of much needed points. Having played 13th Co extensively during the EoT campaign, I think that this is the best way to incorporate Gate. I would even go as far to make warp portals with the same footprint of drop pods to represent the 13th coming into play. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187193-new-13th-company-lists/page/2/#findComment-2222359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athalus Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Just need a tutorial on how to make warp gates, =). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187193-new-13th-company-lists/page/2/#findComment-2222436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The WarpGhost Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I find it deeply ironic that CSM players are running to use the SW codex and 13th Company players are running to use the CSM's! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187193-new-13th-company-lists/page/2/#findComment-2222468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athalus Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 I find it deeply ironic that CSM players are running to use the SW codex and 13th Company players are running to use the CSM's! LoL, its like DA and the wolfwing. It's great to have the options open to get the flavour you want. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187193-new-13th-company-lists/page/2/#findComment-2222561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 For 13th Company players, might I offer up this tidbit? From Athalus' post in the Army List section. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...p;#entry2222606 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187193-new-13th-company-lists/page/2/#findComment-2222608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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