Locmac Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 So it came up in the rules thread briefly, this one, but am I weird to have everything in my demon army affected by DH demon specific weapons like the Gilmore of True Names or the Demon hammer? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Not quite sure what you're asking...the link doesn't work. But for the record, it's Grimoire, not Gilmore. The former means "book," the latter means "bad tv show," heh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2215755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard12 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 just play a bit worse than normal and you'll beat us. most of our anti-daemon rules are broken so things to look out for are 1) grimores of true names-they half your weapon skill (great way to get rid of blood thirstiers) 2)phycannons - strengh 6 heavy bolters which ignore your invunerable save and turn into an assault weapon when within 18" 3) incinorators - heavy flamers which ignore invun saves 4) OUR force weapons - due to the exact wording of the codex they don't inflict an instant death wound but instead "kill outright" so those MC's better be aware thats about all we have that good against you. daemon hammers hit like a thunder hammer but in inititive order edit: and no, it isn't wierd to have everything affected by grimores of true names but if you really want to take away every advantage we have over daemons just arguee the exact wording of daemon as our codex states it to be "all daemonhosts, greater daemons and daemon packs, daemon beasts, Nurglings, daemonicliy possessed vehicles, ect" most of those arn't in your codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2215778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skell Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Few things, Grimoire of true names only halves the WS of models in base contact, so if you have more then 1 model in the unit and the majority isn't in base contact, it has no effect at all. Its only good against any individuals. There's also the Sacred incense which is a global -1 I to whatever unit is in assault with it. Daemon hammer works on us anyway as a powerfist that strikes at initiative. These are all 1 per army upgrades, generally seen on a grandmaster(except maybe daemon hammer). We have to go through difficult terrain when charging grey knights, which is generally bad for us since we mostly lack assault grenades, but note they also don't have grenades either. So bait bait bait. They also have some rule that says something about -1 Leadership, but it doesn't work on chaos daemons since we don't take instability tests. Psycannon's slaughter most daemons that are in the open, same goes for incinerators, but seriously hug cover, its a better save regardless, and either bait the incinerators That's about all i can think of.. Other then the big list of what daemons in the daemonhunters codex refers to which is somewhere strange in the book... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2215889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locmac Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 Well! it's not gilmore that makes so much more sense with the whole Latin/Japanese gothic thing....The link(which brings me to it don't know what's up with you guys) has some people saying that only the demons listed in the DH codex were affect by demon specific powers, not the entire Chaos Demon codex is affected. What I'm asking is, is that how everyone play it, or do you have your Demons affect by demon specific wargear. Oh and I play demons not DH, so the question is if what you other demon players allow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2216509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntin Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I think you are talking about this thread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2216516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locmac Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 Well that doesn't work for me....But Ntin you were the one who made me question if I've been playing demons wrong this whole time so I'm guessing that's the one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2216522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntin Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 How so? The thread is in the Official Rules section called "Mishaps and Sanctuary". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2216530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locmac Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 The Codex on page 20 gives a very narrow set of units that are considered to be daemons. I am going to have a field day next time I play my friends Grey Knights. See how his fancy pants Terminators stand up to 20 Seekers of Slaanesh. I always played thinking that chaos demons are considered demons Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2216534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Haha, Ntin's link works for me, but the OP's doesn't, and vice versa. I (and my club) play that anything that was supposed to affect Daemons from C:DH will affect them like they are supposed to. That's the only "right" way to play until they are updated sometime in forever :D. In tournaments with Rules as Written is played, the opposite takes place unless the organizers choose to ignore that for the sake of simplicity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2216589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntin Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I think a good compromise is they let you use Codex: Chaos Marine 3.5 Daemons for troops. Mmm 3+ armor save Bloodletters and S:4 Daemonettes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2216684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntin Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Found the rules in Chapter Approved 2003 they were not Beast of Chaos even in 3rd edition. I miss the old codex style they had a nicer layout, the authors did not feel the need to reprint the models twice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2216716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuNCHBiZZLe Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 IMO EVERYTHING in the Deamon codex is affected by any DH anti deamon item but that also means that EVERY unit can come back on the field after being killed other than I belive greater deamons, Deamon princes, and I would guess the soul grinder (maybe the heralds and named unit upgrades also) so IMO its a win win. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2216955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntin Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 That is the crux of your argument it is based on your interpretation of the rules. Codex: Daemon Hunters gives a small set of units that are to be considered daemonic and only a few of them still exist in modern codices. I am not familiar with daemonic units get a “without numbers” type of rule when facing Daemon Hunter armies? Unless you are mistaken one of the narrative missions the codex gives it would be to the detriment of a Chaos Daemons player to have all their units to be considered daemonic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2217362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Daemonic Infestation. It gives all daemon packs, daemonic beast packs, and nurglings Sustained Attack. Translated to 5th edition, that would give all our Troops choices, Fast Attack choices, and Flamers the "Without Number" rule from the Tyranids book. They even say as a sidenote in the codex that this is to offset some of the GK's considerable advantages. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2217608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuNCHBiZZLe Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Daemonic Infestation. It gives all daemon packs, daemonic beast packs, and nurglings Sustained Attack. Translated to 5th edition, that would give all our Troops choices, Fast Attack choices, and Flamers the "Without Number" rule from the Tyranids book. They even say as a sidenote in the codex that this is to offset some of the GK's considerable advantages. Hense the reason I belive that all the anti deamon items in C:DH afect all units in C:Deamons,just because specific units are not listed doesnt mean that players shouldnt use common sense, at that point your just splitting hairs, Which IMO would be grounds for in friendly games refusing to play you and at turnies a knock on sportsman ship and maybe disqualification depending on the judge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2217813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntin Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I seriously hate my Daemon Hunter friend. Going to have to sit down and read this codex page for page to see what else he has been hiding. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2218651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Hense the reason I belive that all the anti deamon items in C:DH afect all units in C:Deamons,just because specific units are not listed doesnt mean that players shouldnt use common sense, at that point your just splitting hairs, Which IMO would be grounds for in friendly games refusing to play you and at turnies a knock on sportsman ship and maybe disqualification depending on the judge. As a sweetener for your DH opponent I recommend allowing him the Imperial Armour 2 rules. If you agree to use a common sense approach, it's not going to be long before he works out that by that logic his Assault Cannons should be Heavy 4 and that his Land Raiders should have Power of the Machine Spirit. The Imperial Armour 2 rules are the closest we have to an official update. By the way, most of the specialist anti-daemon wargear isn't as prolific as you think. It's either Grey Knight Hero/Inquisitor Lord-only or 0-1. Looking at that, the fair solution seems to me to only extend Daemonic Infestation to Troops-type units (ie the equivalent of an SM Devastator squad would be fine, but a Soul Grinder would not). Due to the effects of Codex Creep, beware: adopting a common-sense with C:DH is entering uncharted waters - the IA: 2 rules are the only possible guide. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2218746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad III Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Actually.....in the FAQs and Errata for GKs.....they cut Daemonic Infestation completely. EDIT: Well.....it used to.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2219041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
killersquid Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Well, considering that the 5th edition FAQ says to ignore rules that reference rules that no longer exist..and that the sustained assault rule no longer exists...That Demonic Infestation no longer exists. Generally though a good Daemons player really has nothing to fear from Daemon Hunters. Daemons are a much more modern and powerful book. I've gone agaisnt Daemons a few times now with my Daemon Hunters (non-specializing) and horribly lost every time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2219121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Thane Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Daemons are up to date and quite good. DH are very outdated and people rarely play a list tooled up to fight Daemons specifically. Even if they do, the effect is negligeable usually. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2247350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Well! it's not gilmore that makes so much more sense with the whole Latin/Japanese gothic thing....The link(which brings me to it don't know what's up with you guys) has some people saying that only the demons listed in the DH codex were affect by demon specific powers, not the entire Chaos Demon codex is affected. What I'm asking is, is that how everyone play it, or do you have your Demons affect by demon specific wargear. I play both, and yes the Grimoire and Sacred Incense work on Codex: Chaos Daemons in all my local stores, not specifically the Daemons in our Codex. I have never heard of it played any other way. And yes, even as a Daemon player, I am ok with this fact, as it is amost always a horrifically bloody battle when Daemons and Daemon Hunters take the field against each other. Remember, C:DH is from 3rd Ed, so wordings and inputs are outdated, but GW runs on the Codex > Core Rule Book for things like that, hense our Force Weapons managing to work against Eternal Warriors (yes, even Marneus Calgar, thank the Emperor.) Oh and I play demons not DH, so the question is if what you other demon players allow. So now, I reiterate, that as a fellow Daemon player, yes C:DH wargear affects us. And if I may so bold, I think this comment is highly inappropriate as wizard12 was attempting to give his opinion that YOU solicited in beginning this thread. True that his view is only from the DH side of the match, but it is every bit as warrented as Mine or any other Daemon player as well, and I do not apprciate you getting offended and offensive at his post. As I said, IMO highly inappropriate. And as to Magnus Thane's comment, very true, most of our players dont carry anti-daemon regularly. Im one of the ones that do. My GM ALWAYS carries a Grimoire and Incense, but thats my choice, and a quick waste of 20 point when i end up playing C:SM or Nids, but I believe it fluffy and that no GM would lead his brothers without full equipment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2265557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtfcllyFlvrd Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 If you play anywhere in the Midwest the Adepticon FAQ covers this. Everything in the DoC codex (except BoM spawn) is a daemon. AND you ignore the DH rule where the daemons keep coming back because the rule says they gain “sustained attack” which is no longer a rule. I think this makes the most sense and I wouldn’t play anyone who tried arguing otherwise, they’re trying to nickel and dime every little thing they can and I have better ways of spending my time than with them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187281-demons-and-dh/#findComment-2273689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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