Attacks from Saga of the Warrior Born

[Wolf Lord Hallbjorn]

It seems you guys are quite used to having nearly all of your attacks hit and wound every time. I have no such luck with the dice, and I don't even want to talk about my armor saves. I've had opponents tell me I so lucky to have 3+, to which I always reply "A 3+ save IS awesome...if you make it". That aside, i'm not sure that your opponent's assault phases were intended to be counted, but I could be completely wrong. I know what it says, but I guess I get a different idea about the spirit of the rule. Whenever the Emperor wakes up and Russ returns to us and they finally decide to release an official FAQ, I'll hope things like this are covered. If it turns out that both assault phases from the previous turn count then i'll certainly be happy, but until I know for certain i'm just going to play it the way I feel is right.

[rahl02]

It seems you guys are quite used to having nearly all of your attacks hit and wound every time. I have no such luck with the dice, and I don't even want to talk about my armor saves. I've had opponents tell me I so lucky to have 3+, to which I always reply "A 3+ save IS awesome...if you make it". That aside, i'm not sure that your opponent's assault phases were intended to be counted, but I could be completely wrong. I know what it says, but I guess I get a different idea about the spirit of the rule. Whenever the Emperor wakes up and Russ returns to us and they finally decide to release an official FAQ, I'll hope things like this are covered. If it turns out that both assault phases from the previous turn count then i'll certainly be happy, but until I know for certain i'm just going to play it the way I feel is right.

 

I have to ask how many assault phases are before a turn is done. Isn't not just for your turn if it was it'd say "your" assault phase. Instead of previous assault phase. Your guy's not going to stand there getting beaten down with out fighting back during your enemies assault phase is he no. SO on your next turn you get a bonus ffrom the previous assault phase.

[Wolf Lord Hallbjorn]

That would seem to be the common sense thing to do, but I find that there are quite a few things about the rules that don't seem to follow common sense. One of the most frustrating to me is how assaults into occupied buildings are dealt with. To me, commons sense says that my pack of Blood Claws is not going to stand outside and try to bring the building down around the enemies inside. They're going to kick in the door with a howl and cut them to ribbons. Can they do that? Nope. Why? I'm guessing GW would cite some issue of balance.

[Decoy]

27. But I'm lucky as all get out so I don't count.

[SamaNagol]

Both assault phases don't count. The previous assault phase counts.

 

So if your Wolf Lord charges into a huge mob with his 7 attacks and gets 3 kills, he adds 3 bonus attacks to his 6 in the assault phase of your opponent if he is still locked in combat. Say of those 9 attacks he scores 4 kills. That means if he makes it into combat again in your turn, he gets a bonus 4 attacks. This continues indefinitely, but you only count the assault phase immediately passed.

[Prosedragon]

I got mine up to 24...but it was really lucky (killing everything), and it was grots, so...luck aside, it still doesn't count.

 

Why did I charge him into grots? It was my stepbrother, and I didn't want to hurt his feelings by letting my wolf lord kill his squad of boyz...i wanted my grey hunters to do that. But mainly just so I could post it on this thread :)

[Kenmichi]

I feel like most of the users don't understand how the saga works. It clearly stipulates that the character with the saga only benefits from his kills, not his squad's kills. I'm not calling anyone a liar but a wolf lord with 6 suddenly turning those 6 attacks into 15+ seems a little... Impossible, mathematically? Again not calling anyone a liar because I wasn't there to witness these massacres but perhaps keep track of the Lord's kills, not the squad's.

 

Doing some deeper reading into various interpretations I think people are overcomplicated an exceedingly simple rule.

Turn 1: Ragnar (my example) kills no one.

Turn 2: Ragnar charges: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 2 Insane Bravado = 7 Attacks, kills 5 models.

Turn 3: Ragnar is still in combat: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 5 Kills = 10 Attacks, kills 6 models.

Turn 4: Ragnar is still in combat: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 6 kills = 11 Attacks, wipes out squad.

Turn 5: Ragnar loses bonus attacks because he couldn't consolidate.

 

There's no stacking, you simply add the kill results from the previous round for Ragnar, and for Ragnar, only to your current attack figure.

[Decoy]

I feel like most of the users don't understand how the saga works. It clearly stipulates that the character with the saga only benefits from his kills, not his squad's kills. I'm not calling anyone a liar but a wolf lord with 6 suddenly turning those 6 attacks into 15+ seems a little... Impossible, mathematically? Again not calling anyone a liar because I wasn't there to witness these massacres but perhaps keep track of the Lord's kills, not the squad's.

 

Doing some deeper reading into various interpretations I think people are overcomplicated an exceedingly simple rule.

Turn 1: Ragnar (my example) kills no one.

Turn 2: Ragnar charges: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 2 Insane Bravado = 7 Attacks, kills 5 models.

Turn 3: Ragnar is still in combat: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 5 Kills = 10 Attacks, kills 6 models.

Turn 4: Ragnar is still in combat: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 6 kills = 11 Attacks, wipes out squad.

Turn 5: Ragnar loses bonus attacks because he couldn't consolidate.

 

There's no stacking, you simply add the kill results from the previous round for Ragnar, and for Ragnar, only to your current attack figure.

 

It seems about right, actually. Especially when you consider large numbers of mob-like squads; A squad or two of Gaunts is enough to get the figure quite high, as are Orks, or Guard, for that matter. More times than I care to count has my Wolf Lord gotten himself stuck into over 40 enemy models, only fueling his rage and leading to that 27 kill streak. Against anything MeQ, a number above 20 seems highly unlikely, perhaps, but for low-T models? I'm guessing it tops out around 30, 35 if there's enough.

[Grey Mage]

It seems you guys are quite used to having nearly all of your attacks hit and wound every time. I have no such luck with the dice, and I don't even want to talk about my armor saves. I've had opponents tell me I so lucky to have 3+, to which I always reply "A 3+ save IS awesome...if you make it". That aside, i'm not sure that your opponent's assault phases were intended to be counted, but I could be completely wrong. I know what it says, but I guess I get a different idea about the spirit of the rule. Whenever the Emperor wakes up and Russ returns to us and they finally decide to release an official FAQ, I'll hope things like this are covered. If it turns out that both assault phases from the previous turn count then i'll certainly be happy, but until I know for certain i'm just going to play it the way I feel is right.

Sometimes it works out like that, sometimes it doesnt... but that is how it works and if your attacks get high enough you get outrageous numbers... if not, you just get a decent increase in bonus attacks.

 

Considering the power costs 35pts I dont think its that bad- because 7 attacks on the charge, hitting with 4-5 and wounding with 3-4 *frostblade* gets you about 3.5 bonus attacks- terminator honors was +1 A for 10pts.

[Valerian]

I feel like most of the users don't understand how the saga works. It clearly stipulates that the character with the saga only benefits from his kills, not his squad's kills. I'm not calling anyone a liar but a wolf lord with 6 suddenly turning those 6 attacks into 15+ seems a little... Impossible, mathematically? Again not calling anyone a liar because I wasn't there to witness these massacres but perhaps keep track of the Lord's kills, not the squad's.

 

Doing some deeper reading into various interpretations I think people are overcomplicated an exceedingly simple rule.

Turn 1: Ragnar (my example) kills no one.

Turn 2: Ragnar charges: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 2 Insane Bravado = 7 Attacks, kills 5 models.

Turn 3: Ragnar is still in combat: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 5 Kills = 10 Attacks, kills 6 models.

Turn 4: Ragnar is still in combat: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 6 kills = 11 Attacks, wipes out squad.

Turn 5: Ragnar loses bonus attacks because he couldn't consolidate.

 

There's no stacking, you simply add the kill results from the previous round for Ragnar, and for Ragnar, only to your current attack figure.

 

Don't forget that there are two Assault Phases per turn, so you should adjust the description a little to account for that.

 

V

[Kenmichi]

I feel like most of the users don't understand how the saga works. It clearly stipulates that the character with the saga only benefits from his kills, not his squad's kills. I'm not calling anyone a liar but a wolf lord with 6 suddenly turning those 6 attacks into 15+ seems a little... Impossible, mathematically? Again not calling anyone a liar because I wasn't there to witness these massacres but perhaps keep track of the Lord's kills, not the squad's.

 

Doing some deeper reading into various interpretations I think people are overcomplicated an exceedingly simple rule.

Turn 1: Ragnar (my example) kills no one.

Turn 2: Ragnar charges: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 2 Insane Bravado = 7 Attacks, kills 5 models.

Turn 3: Ragnar is still in combat: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 5 Kills = 10 Attacks, kills 6 models.

Turn 4: Ragnar is still in combat: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 6 kills = 11 Attacks, wipes out squad.

Turn 5: Ragnar loses bonus attacks because he couldn't consolidate.

 

There's no stacking, you simply add the kill results from the previous round for Ragnar, and for Ragnar, only to your current attack figure.

 

Don't forget that there are two Assault Phases per turn, so you should adjust the description a little to account for that.

 

V

 

I'm not sure I follow. Ragnar attacks at initiative, defender responds, but then what? Sweeping advances won't add to the kill total so unless I'm missing something from the 5e rules I'm not sure what you mean.

[Grey Mage]

I feel like most of the users don't understand how the saga works. It clearly stipulates that the character with the saga only benefits from his kills, not his squad's kills. I'm not calling anyone a liar but a wolf lord with 6 suddenly turning those 6 attacks into 15+ seems a little... Impossible, mathematically? Again not calling anyone a liar because I wasn't there to witness these massacres but perhaps keep track of the Lord's kills, not the squad's.

 

Doing some deeper reading into various interpretations I think people are overcomplicated an exceedingly simple rule.

Turn 1: Ragnar (my example) kills no one.

Turn 2: Ragnar charges: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 2 Insane Bravado = 7 Attacks, kills 5 models.

Turn 3: Ragnar is still in combat: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 5 Kills = 10 Attacks, kills 6 models.

Turn 4: Ragnar is still in combat: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 6 kills = 11 Attacks, wipes out squad.

Turn 5: Ragnar loses bonus attacks because he couldn't consolidate.

 

There's no stacking, you simply add the kill results from the previous round for Ragnar, and for Ragnar, only to your current attack figure.

 

Don't forget that there are two Assault Phases per turn, so you should adjust the description a little to account for that.

 

V

 

I'm not sure I follow. Ragnar attacks at initiative, defender responds, but then what? Sweeping advances won't add to the kill total so unless I'm missing something from the 5e rules I'm not sure what you mean.

What he means is that during your player turn, wich is turn 1 say, theres an assault phase, and during your opponents player turn, wich is still during turn 1, theres another assault phase.... but its still in "turn 1".

[Kenmichi]

What he means is that during your player turn, wich is turn 1 say, theres an assault phase, and during your opponents player turn, wich is still during turn 1, theres another assault phase.... but its still in "turn 1".

 

Roger.

 

The saga says previous "assault phase" not previous turn, meaning you really need to keep track of your character's kill count as it will vary quite often, then. But I see what Valerian was referring to, I was discounting the idea of Ragnar being assaulted, which as an opponent to Ragnar would be the easiest way to silence him. But, I digress.

 

That being the case:

Turn 1: Ragnar (my example) kills no one.

Turn 2, phase 1: Ragnar charges: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 2 Insane Bravado = 7 Attacks, kills 5 models.

Turn 2, phase 2: Ragnar is still in combat: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 5 Kills = 10 Attacks, kills 6 models.

Turn 3, phase 1: Ragnar is still in combat: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 6 kills = 11 Attacks, wipes out squad.

Turn 3, phase 2: Ragnar is not in combat.

Turn 4, phase 1: Ragnar loses bonus attacks.

Turn 4, phase 2: Ragnar is assaulted: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 1 Counter-attack = 6 Attacks, kills 3 models.

Turn 5, phase 1: Ragnar is still in combat: 4 base + 1 Weapons + 3 Kills = 8 Attacks.

 

This seems much more accurate, thanks for pointing that out Valerian and Grey Mage, definitely clears up even more confusion. Both on my part and on behalf of the Warrior-born saga.

[Per]

Grey Mage is correct. In a game of 5 turns, there are 10 assault phases. So to keep the bonus attacks from the Saga rising you need to stay in combat or be assaulted in your opponents assault phase. The rules regarding the saga says 'previous assault phase'.

 

I think that it'd be quite a bit easier to rack up a shi.. whole heap of attacks using a thunderwolf to get charges all over the board if only your own assault phases counted. It'd lower the maximum attacks attainable though, but increase the probable number considering situations where your opponent isn't actively trying to help you add attacks to your hero.

[Kenmichi]

Grey Mage is correct. In a game of 5 turns, there are 10 assault phases. So to keep the bonus attacks from the Saga rising you need to stay in combat or be assaulted in your opponents assault phase. The rules regarding the saga says 'previous assault phase'.

 

I think that it'd be quite a bit easier to rack up a shi.. whole heap of attacks using a thunderwolf to get charges all over the board if only your own assault phases counted. It'd lower the maximum attacks attainable though, but increase the probable number considering situations where your opponent isn't actively trying to help you add attacks to your hero.

 

True but there will always be a glass ceiling for the number of attacks attainable, which is double the number of maximum attacks you could make under normal circumstances. Continuing with Ragnar as an example this would be 16 ((4 base + 1 weapons + 3 bravado)*2). The bonus attack value resets every phase and only counts towards attacks made by the saga bearer himself.

[Grey Mage]

Grey Mage is correct. In a game of 5 turns, there are 10 assault phases. So to keep the bonus attacks from the Saga rising you need to stay in combat or be assaulted in your opponents assault phase. The rules regarding the saga says 'previous assault phase'.

 

I think that it'd be quite a bit easier to rack up a shi.. whole heap of attacks using a thunderwolf to get charges all over the board if only your own assault phases counted. It'd lower the maximum attacks attainable though, but increase the probable number considering situations where your opponent isn't actively trying to help you add attacks to your hero.

 

True but there will always be a glass ceiling for the number of attacks attainable, which is double the number of maximum attacks you could make under normal circumstances. Continuing with Ragnar as an example this would be 16 ((4 base + 1 weapons + 3 bravado)*2). The bonus attack value resets every phase and only counts towards attacks made by the saga bearer himself.

Negatory- his kills are not capped at half his maximum attacks, thus there is no actual mathematical limit to the number of kills he can attain in a single round.

 

If you are in combat with a Green Tide of 700 Orks and you have maxium kills each round:

 

7 Attacks on the charge, 7 kills.

13 Attacks next round, base of 6+7 for kills.

19 Attacks the round after that, 6 base +13 for kills.

25 Attacks the round after that, 6 base +19 for kills.

 

etc etc etc.

 

While it is highly unlikely that you will always be in assault and kill the maximum number of models each round, it is possible.

[Kenmichi]

Negatory- his kills are not capped at half his maximum attacks, thus there is no actual mathematical limit to the number of kills he can attain in a single round.

 

If you are in combat with a Green Tide of 700 Orks and you have maxium kills each round:

 

7 Attacks on the charge, 7 kills.

13 Attacks next round, base of 6+7 for kills.

19 Attacks the round after that, 6 base +13 for kills.

25 Attacks the round after that, 6 base +19 for kills.

 

etc etc etc.

 

While it is highly unlikely that you will always be in assault and kill the maximum number of models each round, it is possible.

 

Now I see where you're coming from, so long as Ragnar is locked in combat his kill counter will rise, like a Total Recall thing. Although the wording of the saga doesn't really say that and I can say that with confidence because of one big reason: plurality. The last line in the saga says "previous Assault phase", not phases.

[nurglespuss]

Ragnar loses bonus attacks because he couldn't consolidate

 

Just on this bit, you can't consolidate into combat anyway, can you?

[Grey Mage]

Negatory- his kills are not capped at half his maximum attacks, thus there is no actual mathematical limit to the number of kills he can attain in a single round.

 

If you are in combat with a Green Tide of 700 Orks and you have maxium kills each round:

 

7 Attacks on the charge, 7 kills.

13 Attacks next round, base of 6+7 for kills.

19 Attacks the round after that, 6 base +13 for kills.

25 Attacks the round after that, 6 base +19 for kills.

 

etc etc etc.

 

While it is highly unlikely that you will always be in assault and kill the maximum number of models each round, it is possible.

 

Now I see where you're coming from, so long as Ragnar is locked in combat his kill counter will rise, like a Total Recall thing. Although the wording of the saga doesn't really say that and I can say that with confidence because of one big reason: plurality. The last line in the saga says "previous Assault phase", not phases.

Ah, well the thing is- if you say get up to 25 attacks, your rockin the house... and then you flub like no man should ever flub and kill only one ork- your back down to 7 attacks- 6 base, 1 for previous kills. Even though your still locked in combat.

[RADU LYKAN]

Negatory- his kills are not capped at half his maximum attacks, thus there is no actual mathematical limit to the number of kills he can attain in a single round.

 

If you are in combat with a Green Tide of 700 Orks and you have maxium kills each round:

 

7 Attacks on the charge, 7 kills.

13 Attacks next round, base of 6+7 for kills.

19 Attacks the round after that, 6 base +13 for kills.

25 Attacks the round after that, 6 base +19 for kills.

 

etc etc etc.

 

While it is highly unlikely that you will always be in assault and kill the maximum number of models each round, it is possible.

 

Now I see where you're coming from, so long as Ragnar is locked in combat his kill counter will rise, like a Total Recall thing. Although the wording of the saga doesn't really say that and I can say that with confidence because of one big reason: plurality. The last line in the saga says "previous Assault phase", not phases.

 

the above bonus is not from previous assault phases though, its from the last assault phase. so it does keep growing and growing.

6 attacks, 4ish kills. the next assault phase you get 6 base attacks +4 bonus attacks, so 10ish kills.

the next assault phase you get 6 base +10 bonus attacks rolling well, 16 kills.

in the next assault phase 6 base +16 bonus attacks, 20ish kills.

next assault phase you get 6 base attacks +20 bonus attacks but roll really bad, 6 kills.

next assault phase you get 6 base attacks +6 bonus attacks, 8ish kills.

there is no stacking, you simply convert the number of kills you made in the previous phase into additional attacks.

i have not stacked the kills from any phases at all, merely added the number of kills made in the previous phase to the number of attacks.

the fact that apparently t3 models in the new nid dex will be even cheaper than ever before could lead to some very interesting numbers regarding bonus attacks when facing hordes of infantry.

[SamaNagol]

I have no idea how people cannot grasp how this rule works.

 

You add the kills from 1 previous assault phase. That assault phase happens in WHOEVER's turn it is. So if your Warrior Born is in combat in any one of the 2 player's turns it counts as 'a previous assault phase' when you get to the next assault phase.

 

You only ever add the tally of kills from the immediately previous assault phase, which means for you to get a rolling total you have to be in combat EVERY assault phase otherwise you drop back down to zero bonus attacks. If you kill nothing in your opponent's assault phase, you get zero bonus attacks in your next assault phase.

[wolf2.3]

The most I have ever had is 11 with my wolf lord. By that point everything seems to be dead or my oponent has packed up to leave cryng "chease!" over his shoulder *sighs* Theres nothing "cheasy" about it. I have an 860 point hammer unit with my wolf lord that runs around killing everthing. The rest of the army is usually dead by 2nd turn. ^_^

Maybe if you invested more points into the rest of your army they wouldnt die so much?

Yeah, I could but it wouldn't be so fun as waching a small but elite unite winning the battle single handedly like heroes then would it? They only die so quick cos i'm fighting eldar with a load'a dark reapers (guarded by fire dragons to put a stopper in my suicide dread :( )

[Oldenhaller]

Lords on thunderwolf mounts really shine with this being able to get from one combat to the next that much more easilly is a godsend for this ability.

 

~O

[wolf2.3]

No models for them yet though and I'm broke B) .

[DV8]

Ah, well the thing is- if you say get up to 25 attacks, your rockin the house... and then you flub like no man should ever flub and kill only one ork- your back down to 7 attacks- 6 base, 1 for previous kills. Even though your still locked in combat.

 

Which is why Ragnar in tandem with Grey Hunters carrying a Wolf Totem is a godsend, especially if you're attacking T4 or less. :D

 

 

DV8