Chosen + Deployment

[minigun762]

I'm not very familiar with using Infiltrators or Outflankers but I thought it would be fun to add in a squad of Chosen to my current IW army, mostly because of a line from the IA article talking about using Infiltrators to disrupt the enemy while the main force assaulted.

 

They'll probably be given Plasma guns, as I'm more interested in a semi-mobile dakka factory and not an assault squad.

 

So in general, what is a better way to deploy them?

 

Infiltrate in some nice cover and blast away on turn 1

or

Outflank in a Rhino and try to get within rapid fire range.

 

It seems like Infiltration is more defensive oriented while Outflanking is more aggressive.

[Dan The Deamon]

Are you using termicide with them?

 

I have found that sticking a fairly weak chosen squad into good cover for a turn or two will attract a couple or units to flush them out. By this time if you had a couple of termicide units you could drop one right into position to turn things around. This has worked for me.

 

On the other hand the few times that i have seen chosen outflank with plasma they have arrived too late or their contribution wasn't enough to help out much.

 

My experience, infiltrate them with a heavy weapon and some plasma. the extra range on your heavy weapon and the plasma creating a circle of death will worry your opponent and give you a springboard across the field. It takes some work to play well, but it really gives you a good advantage from turn one.

[WarpWhisper]

I like Chosen for their versatility.

 

You can take a Rhino for the squad, and then before the game begins, (or even after your opponent's deployment if you are deploying second), decide whether you'd like to out flank, or to deploy the Rhino normally and then subsequently infiltrate the chosen. If there is nowhere close to the enemy to deploy the chosen using infiltrate, they can always infiltrate behind their rhino, ready to get in on your first turn.

 

I have some extra thoughts about this here should you wish to have a quick look.

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

Warp Whisper - great article. I'm a newbie/returner (to gaming) and probably shouldn't be but as Minigun will be aware from my other threads for my Jan novice game, I'm planning to use a Melta squad of Alpha Chosen in my BL army to try to counter all of the artillery my IG opponent has. It would seem that this could be my best bet of making a mess of this early or at worst, as you pointed out in your article, will give them something else to worry about while the rest of your army makes inroads on the rest of their deployment. Especially given that my opponents previous tactics barely took him out of his deployment zone and ended up just trying to make a long range fire fight which (alongside other factors, one being naivity) I inevitably lost...

 

But i love the idea of having the Alphas as Chosen. In the same way as my havoc squad (will be) Iron Warriors, my fast attack being mostly, if not all Night Lords, it was only fitting that my Alpha Legion squad would be Chosen. I think with you (WW) being an Alpha player, I'd imagine you being a good resource for this.

 

I'm unsure of rulings but... ok, give me a minute... can you deploy the Rhino in a "infiltrate" position if the squad isn't inside? ie line up the Rhino side facing at their deployment zone then put your Chosen behind the Rhino, giving them cover? It will probably only be for one turn, side armour on a Rhino not being great, but I didn't know if a) it was legal or :teehee: if it was a good idea. Feel free to shoot down the novice in flames should it be wrong...

 

Minigun - I will be using a squad of 6 Chosen (given current predictions for the army list) with 3 meltas and a power fist. Do you want my feedback on how they work? I'm undecided as yet whether to use them flanking or whether they will infiltrate yet but it gives me options and may give you some idea of how they work in these circumstances.

[JamesI]

I haven't tried chosen yet, but if I did I'd go for outflanking with plasmaguns and probably a champion with a fist or power weapon.

[Brother Nihm]

I have only tried using Rhino borne Chosen twice, both times without success. But I like to think it was more up to bad reserve rolls + the deployment/movement of my opponent (Necron Destroyer list).

 

Otherwise my main experience is with bog-standard infiltrating Chosen /w heavy weapons. In this capacity I've used them as objective and area denial, usually with a 3 heavy Bolter setup + a PW, if the points permit it.

 

I find Chosen to be excellent for this.

 

Edit: the above was in 4th ed. of course.

 

 

To use Rhino-less shooty Chosen aggressively you will probably need them to synergize with 1-2 similar units, Termicide as Dan suggests or a GD + lesser daemon pack.

I still need to test more with Rhino borne plasma/melta/flamer chosen to comment on their effectiveness vs regular CSM.

 

Also with regards to CC oriented CSM vs CC Chosen, CC Chosen are a waste in my humble opinion. CSM do the same, for less points, and are scoring.

 

 

My 2 Kraks

[Requiemnex]

I agree with Nihm on this one..

 

Either give them special/heavy weapons or dont take them.. The CC version of this squad is just NOT worth its points. It is too expensive to suicide and that is exactly what will happen to them.

 

I have fielded chosen for awhile not because I like the mechanic they add to the battlefield. When someone faces chaos they do NOT expect 5 plasma guns to show up behind them.. I USUALLY run a squad of 8 or 10 in a rhino with 5 plasma guns.. This is EXPENSIVE.. It also rages face.. It can be dangerous to attempt the outflank in table quarters games but aside from that.. Roll the dice and outflank. Not only do they pose an immediate threat your enemy has to deal with fast but it allows the rest of your army to do what they need to do without being the main focus.

 

Rhino in.. Depending on what is open to you.. Drop out and rapid fire... Yeah.. You have a great chance at wounding 1-3 chosen marines but the amount of damage that occures is insane. Not to mention the sheer terror that appears on your opponents face as you place 5 plasma guns outside of the rhino.

 

Tactic works great against marines and horde armies.. Even if they lackluster and die it gives you an extra turn or two to shoot at the other guys units before he turns is head to the rest of your army.

[Corpse.]

I just run the 5 flamer, 5 meltabomb units without rhinos, 420 points for 3 units of 5. They end up doing more damage then I expect them to do. Almost tempted to make them plasma gunners because of the many times I could have sent them after larger monsters.

[minigun762]

Either give them special/heavy weapons or dont take them.. The CC version of this squad is just NOT worth its points. It is too expensive to suicide and that is exactly what will happen to them.

 

I have fielded chosen for awhile not because I like the mechanic they add to the battlefield. When someone faces chaos they do NOT expect 5 plasma guns to show up behind them.. I USUALLY run a squad of 8 or 10 in a rhino with 5 plasma guns.. This is EXPENSIVE.. It also rages face.. It can be dangerous to attempt the outflank in table quarters games but aside from that.. Roll the dice and outflank. Not only do they pose an immediate threat your enemy has to deal with fast but it allows the rest of your army to do what they need to do without being the main focus.

 

Exactly my thought. A squad of 8-10 Chosen with 4-5 Plasma guns is a nasty threat to most anything. I'd like to think that they could form a nice midfield firebase to harass the enemy until my main Rhino force arrives and while it seems like it has some potential, its the issue of how best to deploy them.

 

Warpwhisper: I'll take a good look at your link, it might be the perfect solution to what I'm dealing with.

 

Dan: Chosen supported by Terminators sounds like something worth pursuing. If nothing else Terminators would take a charge better.

[WarpWhisper]

Warp Whisper - great article. I'm a newbie/returner (to gaming) and probably shouldn't be but as Minigun will be aware from my other threads for my Jan novice game, I'm planning to use a Melta squad of Alpha Chosen in my BL army to try to counter all of the artillery my IG opponent has. It would seem that this could be my best bet of making a mess of this early or at worst, as you pointed out in your article, will give them something else to worry about while the rest of your army makes inroads on the rest of their deployment. Especially given that my opponents previous tactics barely took him out of his deployment zone and ended up just trying to make a long range fire fight which (alongside other factors, one being naivity) I inevitably lost...

 

Thanks B) I have run a squad of chosen in a Rhino quite sucessfully, equipped with two meltas, and then a mix of power weapons and the icon of slaanesh. Using outflank can sometimes be random, but getting it right and popping smoke when you enter means that in the following turn it is possible to exit the rhino, melta a transport and make short work of most occupants all in the same turn. (Pg 67 covers this) Although, just the melta shots on the turn you enter can also work quite well. It does depend on your reserve/outflank rolls, but their versatility does help with this.

 

I'm unsure of rulings but... ok, give me a minute... can you deploy the Rhino in a "infiltrate" position if the squad isn't inside? ie line up the Rhino side facing at their deployment zone then put your Chosen behind the Rhino, giving them cover? It will probably only be for one turn, side armour on a Rhino not being great, but I didn't know if a) it was legal or b ) if it was a good idea. Feel free to shoot down the novice in flames should it be wrong...

 

Pg 67 of the rules is where it's all at today! You can't infiltrate the Rhino; only the infantry models can benefit from this rule. With the rhino you can either a) deploy it normally with the rest of your army (or reserve it) and infiltrate/outflank the Chosen seperately, or b ) deploy it normally with the Chosen inside, or c) Reserve both and outflank with them.

 

But you can still infiltrate the Chosen behind the standardly deployed Rhino, allowing them to be out of LOS. People often think of infiltrate as just a way to get closer/within striking distance, but it can be used to deploy your units after viewing the enemy deployment and/or concealing your own intentions. You can even deploy next to another transport and hop in on the first turn, but now I'm just repeating my article, I think....

 

@Brother Nihm; Sorry, but unless my codex has printing errors I don't know about, 3 heavy bolters in a chosen squad is illegal. :P

 

I know this is a little off topic, and as an Alpha Legion player I shouldn't even be saying this, but with plasma-rapidfire-death a Havoc squad is a heathly alternative to Chosen. It does depend on your free slots, and if you want the extra versatility, as that's where Chosen excel.

[Requiemnex]

Hahaha, havocs in a rhino with 4 plasma guns would be pretty nice.

[The WarpGhost]

I have no experience with Chosen in the shooting/specials role, but I have on the melee and aggressive infiltrating. I can add my voice that it is not a particularly effective way to use the troops. More defensive play would be the more prudent and judicious use of their ability to Infiltrate on the board. Outflanking... more risky, but potentially more rewarding. I've used a mix of Marks on infiltrating Chosen, and have concluded that none provide a particularly great boost to effectiveness for aggressive/melee infiltration; for a shooty/defensive mindset, they would be quite inefficient.

 

Maybe I'll give them a look for 2000 point expansions.

 

@Brother Nihm; Sorry, but unless my codex has printing errors I don't know about, 3 heavy bolters in a chosen squad is illegal. sad.gif

Yeah, I had to do a double-take when I read that (oh if wishing made it so... *remenisces of the bad old days of 2nd Ed when Veterans were BS5 and had access to 3 heavy weapons*).

[Nemisor]

i have my chosen with 2 meltas a power fist and a power weapon in a rhino. it works out to be quite a versitile squad.

 

if you want chopy or shooty i think the key with chosen is using them wisely. i tend to try to outflank and attack weak units on the flanks if i can, then when the enemy trys to bring his force to bear on them get in the rhino and run for it. then you can hit them from another direction with the rest of your force.

or use them to support your main assault.

[Grey Mage]

I would suggest infiltration as being normally the best way to play them, but with an icon to help summon daemons should they become overrun, or to claim an objective near them later in the game.

[Atheist]

The good thing about Chosen is exactly the fact that they are so flexible when it comes to deployment .

 

I find the " plasma death squad " to be their best role as :

 

a ) If properly placed no enemy armor except for a LR ( and the like ) will think lightly about expsosing the tender AV11 ( or even 12 ) to 5-10 S7 shots .

 

b ) They are effective against most things with a T value that walk/fly around the table .

 

c ) They can be used as a focus to bring your obliterators/larger-than-termicide-terminator-units at the front *safely*

 

d ) If you go the extra mile and buy them a Rhino you may *surprise* your opponent each time ( one time infiltrating , one time outflanking , another time rushing together with the rest of the army giving valuable fire support and generally being a unit you can't ignore when packing 5-10 plasma shots )

 

Also ( for non IW players ) the chosen gives the "undivided chaos" player ( sorry , " no mark no party " when it comes to my "dedicated" lists ) the cheapest aspiring champion of the codex , for purposes of summoning a Greater Daemon . The fact that said aspiring champion can also infiltrate makes the chosen almost a no brainer for any list that would like to field a Greater Daemon . Remember that contrary to other units , you could give a powerfist to any member of the squad ( though I would advise against that , I like 5 plasma guns ) , and keep the champion cheap .

 

The only downside of the chosen is actually the fact that they can take so many upgrades that if you get carried away they may easily become a point sink in your list . For example I'd really like to give each of the boys a melta bomb but that's another 50 points on upgrades on top of the 75 already paid for the plasma guns .

 

So , all in all , I can't say that I have a favourite way of deployment , because I strongly believe that the chosen should be flexible at all times ( buy them a rhino )

[minigun762]

The good thing about Chosen is exactly the fact that they are so flexible when it comes to deployment .

 

I find the " plasma death squad " to be their best role as :

 

a ) If properly placed no enemy armor except for a LR ( and the like ) will think lightly about expsosing the tender AV11 ( or even 12 ) to 5-10 S7 shots .

 

b ) They are effective against most things with a T value that walk/fly around the table .

 

c ) They can be used as a focus to bring your obliterators/larger-than-termicide-terminator-units at the front *safely*

 

d ) If you go the extra mile and buy them a Rhino you may *surprise* your opponent each time ( one time infiltrating , one time outflanking , another time rushing together with the rest of the army giving valuable fire support and generally being a unit you can't ignore when packing 5-10 plasma shots )

 

Also ( for non IW players ) the chosen gives the "undivided chaos" player ( sorry , " no mark no party " when it comes to my "dedicated" lists ) the cheapest aspiring champion of the codex , for purposes of summoning a Greater Daemon . The fact that said aspiring champion can also infiltrate makes the chosen almost a no brainer for any list that would like to field a Greater Daemon . Remember that contrary to other units , you could give a powerfist to any member of the squad ( though I would advise against that , I like 5 plasma guns ) , and keep the champion cheap .

 

The only downside of the chosen is actually the fact that they can take so many upgrades that if you get carried away they may easily become a point sink in your list . For example I'd really like to give each of the boys a melta bomb but that's another 50 points on upgrades on top of the 75 already paid for the plasma guns .

 

So , all in all , I can't say that I have a favourite way of deployment , because I strongly believe that the chosen should be flexible at all times ( buy them a rhino )

 

Very nice post Atheist, alot of good information. I think for most situations, Plasma is the best bet because of its ability to be a multi-tasker.

 

As a novelty build though, does the 4-5 Flamer squad really bring anything? Are there enough valid targets that need to be hit by 4+ templates?

[JamesI]

As a novelty build though, does the 4-5 Flamer squad really bring anything? Are there enough valid targets that need to be hit by 4+ templates?

I faced a player who ran a chosen in rhino with 5 flamers, a lord with combi-flamer and lightning claws, and a sorceror with Wind of Chaos. 7 templates. Whatever it hits goes away (I lost my entire Death Company plus more to it).

[Possessed Marine]

As a novelty build though, does the 4-5 Flamer squad really bring anything? Are there enough valid targets that need to be hit by 4+ templates?

maybe against hordes of orks or nids

[Typewriter]

As a novelty build though, does the 4-5 Flamer squad really bring anything? Are there enough valid targets that need to be hit by 4+ templates?

maybe against hordes of orks or nids

As a player running an 8-man, four flamer + PW Chosen squad in a rhino I might add that they do indeed work wonders against most things in range, not just hordes of orks and nids. Necron phalanxes for example usually takes a good beating from it, not to mention guardsmen huddled around an objective in a building.

[Atheist]

Of course we assume that we already have covered all heavy support slots to use flamer chosen .

 

I mean , the range of the weapon makes them kind of less effective when infiltrating/outflanking , so you might as well field havocs in a rhino if all you need is flamer support ( without infiltration ) .

 

Saves you some points methinks .

 

Also : don't you think that 4 flamers is too much ? The charge of the chosen after a couple of flamers may be considered reliable ( especially if it comes with a power weapon/fist ).

 

Another question ( slightly off topic ) :

 

Ok , it is a rather bad choice to take a heavy weapon on a troop ( because it uses up one of the only two available choices for special/heavy weapons ) , but what about the chosen ?

 

Would you give them a heavy weapon ?

 

What would it be ? Obviously *not* the silly expensive lascannon .

 

And another question ( again slightly off topic but it's nice to have all things in a thread I think ) :

 

What do you feel about mostly cc tooled chosen ( say 2 meltas , 2 powerfists , 1 powerweapon champion ) in a LR ?

 

I'd be actually tempted to include a mortal winged hq in there but then it would really be LOTS of points .

 

I know we have berzerkers .

 

But I'm proposing this mostly for the Undivided diehards .

[Typewriter]

The four flamer havoc + rhino option is a viable alternative, and cheaper to boot.

I've found the Chosen's versatility to fit better with my style of play though. The rhino gives them the mobility needed to deliver them to their chosen target when outflanking.

 

Also, the four flamers aren't too much in my opinion, inflicting massive amounts of wounds is necessary to bring down large groups, especially if you have slightly less than average favour with the dice gods...

[WarpWhisper]

@Typewriter; I owe you a slight apology - I did think about mentioning you when the flamer squad question was raised, but didn't know how much mileage you'd had from your guys yet. I am now suitably informed/chastised! B)

 

Would you give them a heavy weapon ?

 

One of my chosen squads has a heavy bolter, for a few extra shots when they're on the defensive, but equally, it's not so expensive (only just! :) ) that I feel like having to use it every turn; it's just there to add a little to the versatility to the squad. More useful, I think, to have a heavy with either a jack-of-all-trades or a plasma-oriented squad; melta/flamer/cc squads have to close in to benefit from their weapons, so heavy weapons are a little more out of place. And the cost for ML and autocannons is also quite high; maybe the autocannon is a bit better value than the ML, maybe?

 

What do you feel about mostly cc tooled chosen ( say 2 meltas , 2 powerfists , 1 powerweapon champion ) in a LR ?

 

To me, the LR is a little overkill; it's lining up the whole unit to become a priority target. In addition, only dedicated transports can outflank, so that option is no longer available to you, and bypasses one of the main advantages of Chosen.

[Atheist]

As previously mentioned one squad outflanking ( non-biker or in a non skimmer transport ) may be a poor choice due to the random nature of outflanking . They could still outflank on foot if they are in a LR ( even though it's a worse choice ).

 

So I wouldn't consider it that much of loss .

 

True , it's still nice to be able to adapt to any circumstance via the three possible ways of deployment of the chosen . but I really hate charging into cover with terminators , this is why I brought the whole issue up . Also , if you want to deliver a charge , you can't go wrong with a Land Raider .

 

Of course you could always buy them the Rhino as previously mentioned for the plasma death squad and use it for cover if you go for the LR charge . If not , you could outflank . The "cc oriented chosen squad " as described above is 20 pts more expensive than the plasma squad ( and you could drop the champ too )

 

The "cc oriented squad " configuration would be rather challenged in an infiltrating role , since it lacks the range to do serious damage , and will want to get up close and personal with the enemy , on foot , without the protection of any transport . This is why the plasma squad configuration stands out : whatever the role/deployment , you don't want them to charge , and they'll do their job , even if that is scaring the opponent .

[WarpWhisper]

Of course you could always buy them the Rhino as previously mentioned for the plasma death squad and use it for cover if you go for the LR charge . If not , you could outflank .

 

You're right, of course. I should actually pay attention to what I said before! *facepalm*

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

I employ Chosen mostly as headhunters, but my track record with them is pretty poor. My usual loadout for them, if I have the points to spare, is 5 in a Rhino, 4 plasmaguns, 1 power fist, Icon of Nurgle to make them a pain for infantry to take down. The last time I used them, they Outflanked to support the push my winged Slaanesh Prince was doing on the enemy right flank and got intercepted by an IG command squad led by Melta-Hands Straken. They shot the squad to pieces with plasma, but Straken survived and butchered them all in CC. I'll take Termies over Chosen any day. :rolleyes: