Multiple Rerolls

[Prophecy]

I know that the BRB says that a die can only be rerolled once, my real question though is if this is two different rerolls:

 

I have a Wolf Priest leading a squad of (cc-kitted) GHs. They pop their standard for this assault phase. The wolf priest allows them to reroll against their preferred enemy, while the standard lets them reroll all 1s. Do the standard and WP count as two different rerolls? If so, in which order do you do them, and if not, is taking a standard wasted in a squad with a WP leading it?

[JamesI]

No. You can never reroll a reroll, so even if you have 2 ways to reroll, you can only do it once. The standard will not help with rerolls to hit on the charge, as the priest does that. It will help with wounds and armor saves though.

[Spacefrisian]

This has been asked many times before and i think something more fitting than an answer should be posted to this.

 

http://www.heathenz.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/picard-no-facepalm.jpg

 

Sorry couldn't resist.

[xxvaderxx]

I have a better one:

 

¿What happens to oposed re-rolls?.

 

You have "re-roll to hit", and he has "your oponent re-rolls all succesful hits".

[JamesI]

I have a better one:

 

¿What happens to oposed re-rolls?.

 

You have "re-roll to hit", and he has "your oponent re-rolls all succesful hits".

By RAW: You roll all the dice. Then pick them all up and reroll them. Whatever comes up on the second roll wins.

 

By common sense, they cancel and you roll once.

[VorpalDoom]

No rule is written on how to solve that. Most players tend to agree that no reroll is taken place.

 

Similarly with things where someone will take the lowest, and another will take the highest, both are ignored, as they effectively cancel eachother out. Same deal with extra/less dice rules conflicting.

 

 

It's completely up to you and your opponent.

[stinkenheim]

@ xxvaderxx there was an issue like that in fantasy with a chaos item and warrior priest. the chaos armour made you re-roll all succesful hits and the priest made you re-roll any failed hits. the faq said to roll to hit normally, then re-roll all the failed hits. take all of the succesful hits and then re-roll those, any that hit after that then roll to wound.

otherwise simply say both rules cancel each other out.

 

@ prophecy jamesI is correct under normal circumstances you can never re-roll a re-roll.

[Prot]

I have a better one:

 

¿What happens to oposed re-rolls?.

 

You have "re-roll to hit", and he has "your oponent re-rolls all succesful hits".

 

 

No rule is written on how to solve that. Most players tend to agree that no reroll is taken place.

 

Similarly with things where someone will take the lowest, and another will take the highest, both are ignored, as they effectively cancel eachother out. Same deal with extra/less dice rules conflicting.

 

 

It's completely up to you and your opponent.

 

That's not quite true. The rule DOES exist, and there is no disagreement. I really don't want to come off as sarcastic, honestly, you just have to apply logic.

 

The rule says you can't re-roll a re-roll basically So..... Let's take this example again:

 

You have "re-roll to hit", and he has "your oponent re-rolls all succesful hits".

 

So... player 1 rolls a successful hit. Player 2 says... re-roll that please. End of story. A dice has been re-rolled one time

So... player 1 rolls an unsuccesful hit. He takes his re-roll and gains a hit. Player 2 cannot use his rule because: A dice has been re rolled one time.

 

End of story.

[Hear da Lamentation]

OK, well with a due sense of being mini-flamed ..... I thought the rule book for the standard states "rolls of 1 are ignored for the duration of the assault phase."

This doesn't say "only the 1st roll" - it says "rolls of 1 are ignored"

 

Surely this means ANY rolls of 1 are ignored, not just the first time you roll.

 

(I'm not saying this stacks with the WP, just that you ignore ALL rolls of 1 with the standard)

[AdeptusDavidus]

That doesn't override the core rule of "you can't reroll a reroll".

[JamesI]

OK, well with a due sense of being mini-flamed ..... I thought the rule book for the standard states "rolls of 1 are ignored for the duration of the assault phase."

This doesn't say "only the 1st roll" - it says "rolls of 1 are ignored"

 

Surely this means ANY rolls of 1 are ignored, not just the first time you roll.

 

(I'm not saying this stacks with the WP, just that you ignore ALL rolls of 1 with the standard)

It says may reroll any dice roll of 1. And since you can never reroll a reroll, if the second roll is a one, the one is the final result.

[Hear da Lamentation]

OK - thats a shame then ..... Booooooooooooooooooooooooo !

[Marshal Wilhelm]

That's not quite true. The rule DOES exist, and there is no disagreement. I really don't want to come off as sarcastic, honestly, you just have to apply logic.

 

The rule says you can't re-roll a re-roll basically So..... Let's take this example again:

 

You have "re-roll to hit", and he has "your oponent re-rolls all succesful hits".

 

So... player 1 rolls a successful hit. Player 2 says... re-roll that please. End of story. A dice has been re-rolled one time

So... player 1 rolls an unsuccesful hit. He takes his re-roll and gains a hit. Player 2 cannot use his rule because: A dice has been re rolled one time.

 

End of story.

 

I don't think it is as easy as that.

Who says player 2 gets to say... "re-roll that please" before player 1 says "I am re-rolling those misses"?

It can as easily be said that player 1 has the preference....

Player 1 rolls. Misses then get re-rolled. Player 2 says... re-roll that please. Player 1 then says "sorry you missed out". End of story. A dice has been re-rolled one time.

Player 1 gets the preference as he is the one making the dice rolls. Think of this order. 1 rolls. 1 then re-rolls./ then player 2 asks for the re-rolls.

 

At no stage does someone with preferred enemy get to be disrupted by someone else. The "1 rolls" doesn't happen sooner than the "1 then re-rolls". It is all one simultaneous attack.

The same can be said for "then player 2 asks for the re-rolls." It happens all at the same time as the above.

 

Order of re-rolling is also important.

12 A. 6 H. Player 1 re-rolls the 6 misses. 3 more H. 9 total. Player 2 then makes that be re-rolled = 4.5 H.

 

12 A. 6H. Player 2 makes that be re-rolled. drops to 3 H. Player one re-rolls the 9 misses. 4.5 H. Total = 7.5H.

 

You can see that whoever is getting their re-roll in second has the advantage.

 

So it could be a lot easier to say a +re-roll is cancelled by a -re-roll and let that be that.

[Prot]

Who says player 2 gets to say... "re-roll that please" before player 1 says "I am re-rolling those misses"?

 

You are over complicating the matter. Re-read the example. Player 1 wouldn't say "I am re-rolling a HIT" (re read the example. It REALLY is that simple)

 

My example shows that if you abide by the rule of not re-rolling a re-roll... all is fine in the universe. You are adding an unnecessary level of complexity to a very simple solution: ONE re-roll. End of story. Re-think your dilemma.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Who says player 2 gets to say... "re-roll that please" before player 1 says "I am re-rolling those misses"?

 

You are over complicating the matter. Re-read the example. Player 1 wouldn't say "I am re-rolling a HIT" (re read the example. It REALLY is that simple)

 

My example shows that if you abide by the rule of not re-rolling a re-roll... all is fine in the universe. You are adding an unnecessary level of complexity to a very simple solution: ONE re-roll. End of story. Re-think your dilemma.

 

Dear Prot

 

I missed what you said. I now see that you said successful 1st hits are re-rolled due to P2 ability and successful 1st misses (!! :blush: ) are re-rolled due to P1 ability.

 

You are right. Very clever.

 

*I checked with 12 A hitting at 50% and using your correct method, statistically, 6 hit. To double check it I did 90 A hitting at 66% and 60 hit.

 

So it does work out to be the same as them cancelling out but your way is the correct way. Good one :D