Building a Terminator Teleport list...

[ShinyRhino]

So, I'm getting a little bored painting Bikers, and have been getting the urge to paint some Terminators. So, I was thinking of spinning up a list that involved a couple large units of Terminators that drop onto the table via Deepstrike.

But, i don't really know where to begin, since the theory is at odds with how I normally play (bike and mounted tactical heavy, supported by Dreads and a Vindicator).

The games I play tend to range between 1500 and 2000 points, and our shop uses a composition scoring system for our tourneys. You lose points for named HQ characters, and for using more than 2 of a given non-Troops slot in your list. For example, if you take three Heavy slots, you miss out on one Composition point per round.

With those loose guidelines, I'm not sure what to begin with.

 

The obvious start is an HQ. Does one take Lysander to boost the shooting of the Tactical Terminaotes (NO Hammernators in this list, no Raider either)? Calgar for his built-in homer? A chaplain in TDA for boosted assaults? A librarian in TDA for shooty goodness via Avenger, and a free Froce Weapon? Or a Captain/Master in TDA for straight up face beating with a blade? Or do I take Tigurius for the rerolled reserves?

I know I want the HQ unit to be in TDA (unless I take Tiggy). It both gives me a fun conversion/painting project, and the ability to have them drop in with the Terminators.

 

Elites slots will be taken up by the Tactical Terminators, obviously. I have enough models to run two full 10-man squads, IIRC. They're buried in my "Haven't Used This in a While" box. I've got CMLs, assault cannons, and heavy flamers available. I like the idea of doubling up on special weapons in the squads. One squad with two CMLs, the other with two assault cannons. The heavy flamer has such limited range that I'm not sure it'll make a good choice with my deployment mode. Problem is, with the upgrades, over half my force is taken up by Terminators! 400+ points per squad.

This is only slightly mitigated by the ability to combat squad upon arrival, and use multiple homers for the resulting 5-man squads.

 

The only fast attack unit with a homer is the Scout Biker selection. I have several of these (6 or so?). Do I use them in small 3-man units, or one larger unit? Scout moves and infiltration can keep them safe for a little while til the TDA arrives, I guess.

 

Troops will be VERY important to the list. They'll be my main delivery points of my TDA. To this end, I was thinking Scouts would be better than mounted tacticals. I can infiltrate the homers into good positions, but the problem is surviving the several turns of shooting before the TDA squads are available. Camo cloaks mitigate some of that, but not nearly enough.

Mounted tacticals have the benefit of speed and immunity to small-arms fire, but lack the deplyoment options. Of course, Infiltration doesn't really get you all that far into the board anyways, with the 12-18" buffer zones from enemy units.

 

Heavy support really has to be cheap for what it does. I'm thinking Whirlwinds (for firing at units from outside LOS) or Autocannon Predators. Both are dirt cheap, and can put a punch downrange against the right targets. These options are probably best used alongside mounted Tacticals, though, for armor saturation. Two vehicles alone on the table with a bunch of Scouts are asking to take every lascannon or missile to the head each turn.

If I go the Scout route, a pair of Thunderfires might be better, since they can bolster a Ruin for an additional +1 cover save (combined with the Scouts Camo Cloaks gives the younglings a 2+ cover save, wheee!), and can slow down advancing units via Tremor Shells.

 

 

What would you folks start with/build at these point thresholds (1500, 1750, 2000)? I don't need complate list run-downs, just some synergy ideas that revolve around the deployment of Terminators from Deepstrike, with NO Hammernators or Land Raiders in the list.

[minigun762]

My first question would be, how important are those Homers? Tactical Terminators have an effective range of 24" minimum, so you rarely have to risk deepstriking them within 6" or so of a target. I feel like it would be better to build a more normal list and just have Terminators as mobile support.

With the CML squad, you could even just walk them up the board if you wanted to.

[hazardousZERO]

I use a 10 man terminator squad in almost all of my lists. Lately Ive had Lysander attached too them (well that was my first time using him). He is amazing the bolter drill works wonders. I use one CML and one AC (if i had 2 CML i would use them both). I went up against the tau they started on the table and slowly advanced killing a lot of the troops on there way. At one point i detached Lysander (because he was the only model close enough) and he killed one of there tanks in one swing of his mighty hammer. So my suggestion is use the tactical termi squad(s) as a hard flank and if you have too there great at close combat as you know. Also start with them on the table once i left them to deep strike and they were stuck there till turn 5. The storm bolters range is 24" so generally they will be shooting on the first shooting phase.

 

Take a 10man squad 2 with CML and attach Lysander its 660points but well worth it.

Hope Ive helped.

[Bartali]

Have you looked at using the DA codex ? It does this kind of stuff better, especially as you use a lot of bikes.

 

Ravenwing bikers have teleport homers, and can scout move to get into position and they'll probably end up being a bit more durable than your foot scouts. Deathwing terminators can Deathwing Assault - half of the Terminator squads (rounded up) deep strike first turn, the rest come in normally from reserves. Emphasis on the can - you don't have to DWA first turn and can opt to deploy via normal deep strike.

 

You also have the option of taking Belial or Sammael or both. You'll loose points for taking named HQ's, but gain as your Terminators or Bikers or both become troops choices.

 

Quick example DA 1500 list

 

Belial (TLC) 130pts

Sammael (Jetbike) 200pts

 

Deathwing Squad (PW/SB, PF/AC, 3xPF/SB, Apothecary, Banner) 305pts

Deathwing Squad (PW/SB, PF/AC, 3xPF/SB) 245pts

Deathwing Squad (PW/SB, PF/AC, 3xPF/SB) 245pts

 

Ravenwing Squad (Meltagunx2, PW, Apothecary, Multi-Melta Attack Bike) 220pts

Ravenwing Squad (Meltagunx2, PW) 155pts

[hazardousZERO]

I used too play the DA the death-wing assault is amazing but the problem is you can only take 5man squads. The thing i loved other then the DWA was the fact that you can mix up the weapons in a termi squad IE 2 with storm bolters the others with lightning claws. But the ravenwing used alongside the deathwing is cool but overall i didn't like the DA.

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

Something like:

 

Libby, TDA, Null Zone, GoI

Libby, TDA, VoD, GoI

10 Termies, 2 Cyclones, 2 Chainfists

10 Termies, 2 Cyclones, 2 Chainfists

Dread, Pod

10 Marines, Flamer, PC, Rhino

10 Marines, Melta, MM, Rhino

 

1750

 

perhaps?

[minigun762]

Something like:

 

Libby, TDA, Null Zone, GoI

Libby, TDA, VoD, GoI

10 Termies, 2 Cyclones, 2 Chainfists

10 Termies, 2 Cyclones, 2 Chainfists

Dread, Pod

10 Marines, Flamer, PC, Rhino

10 Marines, Melta, MM, Rhino

 

1750

 

perhaps?

 

It seems so top heavy with 2 HQ units and while Null Zone is nice, I don't know about how useful GoI is really, with the ability to move/shoot/assault and deepstriking, how often do you have to be bouncing around the board? Since you are deepstriking and not taking a Heavy Flamer, what about Avenger?

 

If you want Terminators to be the core of the army, I'd ask myself what your Tactical Terminators fears.

1) Being killed by dakka

2) Being overwhelmed by hordies

3) AP2 blasts

 

And thats about it really

for 1) you can put our a fair amount of dakka yourself so you're not helpless in a fire fight. Your best bet though is to use deepstrikers/fast movers to move up and engage/distract/kill those dakka factory units (thinking of Lootas especially). Since you are using up your Elites already, I'd consider Land Speeders (probably MM/HF) or Whirlwinds as potential fixes. For 2) again your own firepower is going to be a big bonus, but smashing Gaunts or Orks with a Power Fist is kind of a waste so you wanna delay getting into assault. Rhino/Razorbacks being used as blockers will do this, as well speed bump units. Those same Whirlwinds and Land Speeders will treat you well. And for 3) we're really taking about 2 things for the most part. Demolisher Cannons and Plasma Cannons. Since these units are either on medium/heavy armor platforms or in the hands of heavy infantry, so the best counters to this are usually long range firepower or a Melta/Power Fist in the face. Land Raiders or Predators can provide the one while Tactical Squads can provide the other.

 

I think it would be interesting to build a list that was heavy on limiting what the opponent could respond to.

Drop Pod Tacticals

Infiltrating Scouts

Deepstriking Land Speeders

Hidden Whirlwinds

and of course deepstriking Terminators

[Paulochromis]

At work, so no codex, couple of points:

-- I believe Lysander also has bolster defences, which might help your scouts survive.

-- I know you can combat droppod squads after arriving, are you sure about deepstrikers?

 

Cheers, Paul.

[Bartali]

I used too play the DA the death-wing assault is amazing but the problem is you can only take 5man squads. The thing i loved other then the DWA was the fact that you can mix up the weapons in a termi squad IE 2 with storm bolters the others with lightning claws. But the ravenwing used alongside the deathwing is cool but overall i didn't like the DA.

 

5 man squads aren't a problem with total numbers though - you could take 45 Terminators in a DW list with Belial, compared with 30 in a SM list.

[ShinyRhino]

Thanks for all the replies, everyone.

The original idea was more of a themed list with the smaller, "little brother" units getting into position, firing up the teleport homers, and callign in Big Brother. Kind of like the short story from the Heroes of the Space Marines with the Imperial Fists.

While not 100% essential, the homers are for flavour in the list, and because I'm petrified of Deepstrike Mishaps. lol.

 

As for Deathwing. Meh. We have a Deathwing player at our shop already, and I reallylove playing against his lists. He doesn't spam the Landraiders, and is a great tactical thinker with his footslogger Deathwing lists. It's interesting to play against him with my biker lists.

I am not a huge fan of the Deathwing list structure though. 5-man squads are OK, since they're all Fearless, but I don't like the old versions of the CML, nor do I particularly enjoy Belial. I think I'd rather just use the Vanilla Dex.

 

I spun up a really fast list last night while watching TV with the wife. It was generally:

 

Lysander

2x 10-man Terminator Squads, CML + ACann

3x Tactical Squads in Rhinos, PW/MB on sergeant, flamer, free heavy weapon

2x Autocannon Preds

 

I think that left me with 85 spare points in a 2000 point list, though I hadn't placed the teleport homers in the tac squads yet. That would eat 45 of those, leaving 40. I would probably sprinkle in some chainfists in the Terminator squads, and/or bump the power weapons in the tacticals to fists (though I think I already have PLENTY of fists in the list, yannow?).

 

I skipped the scouts, and kinda broke the theme of the army, though. Oops.

[minigun762]

I feel like Lysander, while a fluffy choice, is kinda overkill. You have 20 Power Fists so do you really need his Thunder Hammer and while Bolter Drill is nice, it will take a squad from 6.6 hits to 8.9 on average, is 2+ hits a turn really that much better.

 

If you go with your original theme of Scouts/Terminators (which I think is cool and that story was a good one). You can use a mix of Assault and Dev style Scouts with the Assault ones working with the Terminators and the Dev style holding objectives.

 

I've thought about putting a cheap Chaplain with a 10 man squad of BP/CCW/Power Fist Scouts and putting them in a Land Raider. Chaplain's reroll should boost the WS3 and you still have your WS4 Power Fist as backup.

 

EDIT: I think ICB's 2 Librarians would be a better way to spend 200 points then Lysander especially if you lose points for named HQs.

[DarkGuard]

I spun up a really fast list last night while watching TV with the wife. It was generally:

 

Lysander

2x 10-man Terminator Squads, CML + ACann

3x Tactical Squads in Rhinos, PW/MB on sergeant, flamer, free heavy weapon

2x Autocannon Preds

 

I think that left me with 85 spare points in a 2000 point list, though I hadn't placed the teleport homers in the tac squads yet. That would eat 45 of those, leaving 40. I would probably sprinkle in some chainfists in the Terminator squads, and/or bump the power weapons in the tacticals to fists (though I think I already have PLENTY of fists in the list, yannow?).

 

I skipped the scouts, and kinda broke the theme of the army, though. Oops.

 

Looks like a good list, Lysander is a good choice, his Eternal Warrior and good save allows you to put all manner of shots (like lascannon shots) onto him instead of others. Last night I went up against a similar army, which included a squad of 10 Terminators with assault cannon and heavy flamer, led by Lysander. That unit walked up the board, out of sight from my plasma cannon, and turned the game. They took the fire of two 10 man Tactical squads in one turn, only losing two of their number, charged one, wiped it out, received a charge from the other, forced them to break, and took out my Rhinos preventing me from contesting his objective and earning a draw. The finished with just the Sergeant and a wounded Lysander, but the fact that they took out one and half Tactical Squads is just scary. So yeah, Lysander and a 10 man squad is definately a good thing.

 

I'd worry about your anti-tank though. You have a lot of anti-infantry in flamers, frag missiles, bolter weapons and autocannons, but little anti-tank. You do have meltabombs and power fists, but they are hardly effective. I'd consider putting a meltagun on each Tactical Squad and chosing the multi-melta as their free heavy weapon. If you got the points left over consider combi-meltas and power fists on the Sergeants. Let your Tactical squad hunt the tanks while your Terminators and the Preds take out the infantry.

 

That's all from me.

[ShinyRhino]

I feel like Lysander, while a fluffy choice, is kinda overkill. You have 20 Power Fists so do you really need his Thunder Hammer and while Bolter Drill is nice, it will take a squad from 6.6 hits to 8.9 on average, is 2+ hits a turn really that much better.

 

If you go with your original theme of Scouts/Terminators (which I think is cool and that story was a good one). You can use a mix of Assault and Dev style Scouts with the Assault ones working with the Terminators and the Dev style holding objectives.

 

I've thought about putting a cheap Chaplain with a 10 man squad of BP/CCW/Power Fist Scouts and putting them in a Land Raider. Chaplain's reroll should boost the WS3 and you still have your WS4 Power Fist as backup.

 

EDIT: I think ICB's 2 Librarians would be a better way to spend 200 points then Lysander especially if you lose points for named HQs.

 

Yeah, I felt Lysander was a bit much, as well. Especially if I put a couple chainfists in each squad. I'm thinking I'll go with a TDA Librarian instead. Epistolary, Force Weapon, Avenger, and Might of the Ancients. I'm not a Gate fan. Hatehatehate that power. There's just too many things that can go wrong, as well as all the grey area rules surrounding it. Avenger is a reliable shooting attack. I'm going to want him in the forefront of the squad anyways, since he has to get base contact to swing that Force Weapon anyways, so the template makes sense. The only other option was Smite for reliable shooting attacks. Might allows him to contribute against vehicles and high-Toughness targets.

 

The Scout squad route would probably see four Scout squads, two or three of which would be assault-focused with a mix of shotgunners and bp/ccw, so I can play wound allocation games. The remainder would be missile launcher/sniper units to babysit home base. Maybe add Telion, since he's so fun to use.

 

I'd swap the Preds for Thunderfires, since I don't want two lonely tanks in the list, and I'd gain two uses of Bolster Defences from the Techmarines.

 

Spare points would possibly go to an Assault Squad with a flamer and a plasma pistol, to drop in and assassinate those Lootas, or their equivalent. SAGs are my bane.

[Ming]

I say go all out, be in character.

 

Obligatory:

 

10xTac squad, POD, Homer

10xTac Squad, POD, Homer

Libby, TDA, Null, Smite

 

Add-ons -

10xterminators - regular

10xterminators - regular or assault

1-2 Dreads, PODs (vens or irons) or 10xVanguard squad

Wargear to use up points.

 

With this, you can deploy nothing, and pod right in turn 1 with squads where you want them, then start bringing in the terminators and the dreads to support the pods. If for some bizzarre reason the original beacons are gone, just drop nearby...

 

This assaulty army would be all shock and craziness.

[minigun762]

Yeah, I felt Lysander was a bit much, as well. Especially if I put a couple chainfists in each squad. I'm thinking I'll go with a TDA Librarian instead. Epistolary, Force Weapon, Avenger, and Might of the Ancients. I'm not a Gate fan. Hatehatehate that power. There's just too many things that can go wrong, as well as all the grey area rules surrounding it. Avenger is a reliable shooting attack. I'm going to want him in the forefront of the squad anyways, since he has to get base contact to swing that Force Weapon anyways, so the template makes sense. The only other option was Smite for reliable shooting attacks. Might allows him to contribute against vehicles and high-Toughness targets.

I think I'd rather take Null Zone, since it matches the range of the Storm Bolters and Ass Cannon perfectly. As a backup power, I think Avengers is better. Might is nice but you have plenty of high S attacks with the Power/Chain Fists. Avenger helps you against things buried in cover and knocking out hordes.

 

The Scout squad route would probably see four Scout squads, two or three of which would be assault-focused with a mix of shotgunners and bp/ccw, so I can play wound allocation games. The remainder would be missile launcher/sniper units to babysit home base. Maybe add Telion, since he's so fun to use.

I always liked the HB better, considering it matches the range on the Snipers perfectly and the new Hellfire round is basically a super blast sniper shot. Either work though, thats just a preference.

 

I'd swap the Preds for Thunderfires, since I don't want two lonely tanks in the list, and I'd gain two uses of Bolster Defences from the Techmarines.

I see your logic but TFC don't really offer you anything new. Terminators and Scouts can handle infantry just fine, what you need is anti-tank. I'm thinking that MM Land Speeders or Attack Bikers would be much better choices.

 

Spare points would possibly go to an Assault Squad with a flamer and a plasma pistol, to drop in and assassinate those Lootas, or their equivalent. SAGs are my bane.

Again you have anti-infantry covered. If you want a unit to take out static shooters, I'd probably do a Drop Pod Tactical squad. Flamer/Multi-Melta/Power Fist. Hell you could put a cheap Librarian in it, give him Avenger and Force Dome. Fry something turn 1 then give your squad an Inv save.

Plus podding seems to fit into the theme.

[Kay]

My listis the following:

 

Lysandet

TDA libby

 

2 10man termis, 1 with cmld the other with ac

 

Telion+4snipers

10man scout squad with bolters

5 man scout with pf and mb (infiltrating)

5man with pw

 

Lss with hf

 

2combipreds

 

I dont deepstrike. DS is nice for puntual units, but you cannot rely on it to win, specially using 10man termi suads. You start the game with a 920+characters points handicap, and you are not guaranteed they'll show up when u need them. Only ds in drop pods or without them when you dont base ur stategy on it. For instance, deepstriking a 5man tactical termi support unit in a vanilla army is nice. You can survive without 239points. You wont if you have more than 1000 like you do

 

Footslog big units of termis. They can take a punch and deliver twice. So far i have played orks and dark eldar. I killed every single model in both games. Orks never stood a chance. I blew their avs turn 1 and led them to a bottle neck. Im still amazed by the amount of firepwr 10termis dish out.

 

Against eldar, i was able to hold and defeat (lysander=priceless) the bunch of their cc (archon+incubii, witches,talos, and those stealthy ones whose english name i dont know) while scouts took care of the rest.

 

The good thing with scouts in termi list, is that when facing 20+ tda models, u dont put effort in killing the scouts, cuz :cuss, you have to kill 20 terminators. And that is when they come really deadly, when no attention is given to them, cuz even wanabe SM they are still young, and if they dont recieve love, they get really upset... meltabomb here, pinned unit there, kill leftovers, screw around. And they are cheap. Perfect synergy...

 

Hope all this writing helps you. 50% credit to gc08 for the original idea on the army and his fabtastic scout guide.

[captain sox]

Ineresting post.

 

I'm planning something similar, except with all scouts. I was thinking somthing like 4 scout squads with 2 homers. Bring in 1 full termie squad and 1 5 man termie assault squad. If I had any points left, run a few dreads to hlep the scouts.

 

 

I was also thinking 6 scout squads w/homer and deep striking 10 regular termies w/heavy weapons. It would be one of those 'could be wicked fun or wicked frustrating' lists.

 

Keep in mind, I'm trying to stay near 1500 pts. With 2000 pts, I'd go nuts with 20 terminators; 10 of each and 6 full scout squads.

 

madness!