Skirax Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I realise that our own Oldenhaller is attempting to make our new FAQ, but I belive that one topic, Wolf Guard in Scout units, is slightly redundant. Why would they allow Wolf Guard to join Scouts if they would cancel out the scout's rules? Or they would be a 6th wheel, so to speak. Let's throw it open to the floor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshrug Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I'm pretty sure they don't cancel the Scout Pack's rules. For starters, in the codex, it says they are assigned "before the game begins," so if they were assigned to an Outflanking Scout Pack and they did cancel their rules, then... what? The Scouts would be stuck in reserve? That doesn't make much sense. There's also a pretty powerful implication that they can Outflank with the Scout Pack in the codex's explicit mention of how those Wolf Guard assigned to Scout Packs cannot choose TDA, a Bike, or a Jump Pack. If they prevented the Scouts from Outflanking, why bother limiting what they can wear? -Stormshrug Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2219716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 I'm not saying that they limit the rules, I'm saying that that argument is uselss. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2219741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schertenleib Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Why would they cancel the OBEL rule. They are more an upgrade than an IC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2219764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 My argument is that when they are attached they count as an upgrade character. Since the scouts rules are all rules that affect "units" not "models" he would gain them as a member of the "unit". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2219766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niiai Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I am with gray mage on this. He becomes part of the unit, same way that grey hunters last standing terminator can still claim an objective. An IC would stick out as a sore thumb, but a regular wolf guard? Nah. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2219769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Precisely, Wolf Guard attatched to Packs are, for all intents and purposes, members of that squad. They use the same rules, cannot leave or join another unit, and still follow the same rules even if they're the last surviving squad member. They're unit upgrades, not attached IC's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2220125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted December 19, 2009 Author Share Posted December 19, 2009 Guys, can I just clear something up? I'm not presenting an argument for, or against, I'm simply leaving this debate open. However, I think now we've answered it. Or, you have! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2220138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Kenaz Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I agree that if a WG pack leader attaches to a wolf scout pack, then he IS a part of that squad and has the rules that the squad follows, i.e. OBEL, etc. Also, would it be legal to run a Wolf Priest with 'Saga of the Hunter' as part of a Wolf Scout Pack ? I figure it would, being that he's an IC, he could just show up on the same table edge as them or something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2220585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I would love to agree with Grey Mage, I would! But I don't agree that the wolfguard is an upgrade character, he's not 'upgrading/replacing anything'. So for me the wolf guard has its own rules, the wolf scouts have theirs. I have no problem with outflanking, but not operate behind enemy lines, I personally think thats a scouts only trademark. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2220630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I would love to agree with Grey Mage, I would! But I don't agree that the wolfguard is an upgrade character, he's not 'upgrading/replacing anything'. So for me the wolf guard has its own rules, the wolf scouts have theirs. I have no problem with outflanking, but not operate behind enemy lines, I personally think thats a scouts only trademark. There are only two types of "characters" in 40k- Upgrade characters *who are part of a unit, can never leave it and count as it in all respects* and Independant Characters. The WGPL doesnt have the IC rule, thus... what else can he be but an "upgrade character". He doesnt have to replace anything to be an upgrade character- old style wolf lords didnt replace any of the WG in their bodygaurd for an example, and regimental advisors in IG command squads are characters but replace nothing , and Warocks dont replace gaurdians in their squads- yet all are "upgrade characters" by the book. And frankly, your argument makes no sense- wolf gaurd dont normally have outflank, thus if they dont gain "OBEL" or infiltrate or any other rules from the squad theres no way they could gain outflank. Either they gain all the "unit" special rules, though not the model ones, or they dont- we dont get to pick and choose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2220917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander alexander Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Im with Grey Mage on this, he has a very powerful argument :) . Also as far as another independent character, who has chosen saga of the hunter joining the scout pack, they would lose the infiltrate, scout, and move through cover rules, as dictated by the rulebook, as saga of the hunter does not have them, but they would gain stealth, and keep outflank and OBEL. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2220934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 After reading it again, I think the main point people have missed is this: Wolf scouts can't choose to 'normal' outflank, they HAVE to operate behind enemy lines pg27: if a wolfscout unit makes use of its ability to outflank, roll a dice when it enters play etc. So if a wolfguard can joint a unit of scouts pre battle, and he is an 'upgrade' character (though I think he's in third category), not an independent character, then he must follow the units rules. In which case, he has no choice but to operate behind enemy lines, if the wolf scouts outflank. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2221043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 After reading it again, I think the main point people have missed is this: Wolf scouts can't choose to 'normal' outflank, they HAVE to operate behind enemy lines pg27: if a wolfscout unit makes use of its ability to outflank, roll a dice when it enters play etc. So if a wolfguard can joint a unit of scouts pre battle, and he is an 'upgrade' character (though I think he's in third category), not an independent character, then he must follow the units rules. In which case, he has no choice but to operate behind enemy lines, if the wolf scouts outflank. Thus supporting the idea that a WGPL OBELs with the unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2221053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Yep, well not just supporting, there is no choice! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2221054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Yep, well not just supporting, there is no choice! Cool, good to know were on the same page. BTW- with your collage SWs do you intend to be using some scouts, and/or a WGPL? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2221057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I'm thinking of it for the smaller games,I usually field 2 dreads (as I'm pretty armour light), and fancy modelling a wolfguard pack. But in 1000pt games I may well field a squad of 6 with melta gun, and add a pack leader with power fist or thunder hammer/storm shield... Might be a good distraction unit, and could disrupt vehicle parks, heavy weapon squads and dark reapers :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2221080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanyPrawny Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I am very much for the wolf guard using the obel rule, hell i do it every game i play (using them) but I just thought... does this mean a wolf guard joining a blood claw squad get berserk charge? its a similar vein of taking the rules of the unit but i know they don't it just throws a spanner in the works. I hope I've just over thought this and I'm wrong coz i have serious converting ideas for a scout guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2221102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niiai Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Well...it woudl apear so? Cool! :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2221146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maznaz Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I am very much for the wolf guard using the obel rule, hell i do it every game i play (using them) but I just thought... does this mean a wolf guard joining a blood claw squad get berserk charge? its a similar vein of taking the rules of the unit but i know they don't it just throws a spanner in the works. I hope I've just over thought this and I'm wrong coz i have serious converting ideas for a scout guard. If you read the rules for Berserk Charge you'll see this is specified not to be the case. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2221242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 I'm with the guy that says they're upgrades. Cos, it dsays in the entry, the Wolf Guard shall count as part of that unit for the rest of the game and cannot leave it (or something like that <_<). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187597-wolf-guard-scouts/#findComment-2221302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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