Iron Priest effectiveness

[Natanael]

I've been doing some tourney lists today, trying to have IPs in there. The thing that strikes me as very, very nice is the cheap cost. 150p for IP+4 CW+3 Servs+WTN is great. When I put them in my LRC they become a real threat and still gives me like 200p to spend on other stuff compared to if I should take a squad of WGs or something. In my lists I also put a WGBL w/ Saga of Wolfkin+2Fen wolves in the same LRC. Now the unit is ded killy at I5.

[stinkenheim]

if you want him in a transport you cant take cyberwolves as they are beasts and can never be transported.

if you want him mounted there is no point taking normal servitors as they lack fleet and the 12" charge of cyberwolvesand TWM

if you want him really mobile you could give him a bike (i think its an option) but then couldn't take wolves/servitors as it would slow him down to 6" movement and no running.

 

yes there are decent builds but overall its not a gret choice. its easy enough to take out the wolves with small arms fire in one turn, heck against someone like guard they may aswell just use mortars or a griffon as it would wipe out the squad, force you take take pinning/morale chec an then leave just the IP on his own...

even with 4 wolves and him, the unit isn't great in close combat. people say he can really hurt monstrous creatures because he can't be targetted and so will always get his attacks. answer me this, how many monstrous creatures have less than 5 attacks? and normally they are high Ws right, so theres a decent chance that the iron priest will be hurt even with a full unit of wolves. whats even worse is assuming the wolves will make it unscathed, if you only have 2 and the IP that make it, the guy is dead before his attacks are made.

[Grey Mage]

Actually it specificly states in their entry that fenrisian wolves can enter a transport and count as two models.

[stinkenheim]

fenrisian wolves maybe but not cyberwolves

[Natanael]

I though they just counted as two in a transport. Gonna have to look that up. If I can't have him in a LR/LRC/LRR then I agree - he is useless ;)

[stinkenheim]

theres a note under the fen wolves section saying wolves rought as wargear count as two models in a transport but nothing mentioned about cyberwolves... its probably meant to function the same way but there is no mention of it that i saw (although i will admit i didn't look too closely as i don't intend to take the unit)

[Natanael]

Also, in that paragraph (p. 31) it only says something about fen wolves counted as wargrear for an IC. An since the IP is not an IC anyway, I can't have my Cyberwolves in a transport anyway.

 

What a crappy unit. GW really does not want us to use him.

[Natanael]

doublepost, sorry.

[Wildfire]

On page 62, under the description, it specifically states that cyberwolves use the same rules as fenrisian wolves.

 

Also, there's a bit of debate about whether the wolves count as wargear or squad, since the IP isn't an IC. In any case, the servitors wouldn't go if the IP died.

[stinkenheim]

cheers for that dude, as i said never looked too closely at the cyberwolves entry as i didn't plan on taking the unit

[Oldenhaller]

As cyberwolves are also an upgrade option for the fenrisian wolves unit would they not stll count as fenrisian wolves?

 

~O

[Grey Mage]

As cyberwolves are also an upgrade option for the fenrisian wolves unit would they not stll count as fenrisian wolves?

 

~O

Wildfire already noted it: pg 62.

[Oldenhaller]

Rats - too slow on the posting :D

 

Cheers

 

~O

[Natanael]

Another Q tough: It says on p. 62 that "fenrisan wolves bought as wargear are separate models with their own profile...". Does this mean that wargear fen wolves go in transports, but IP cybers do not?

 

If you look at p. 31 is speciffically (sp?) states that fen wolves "bought as part of a characters wargear allowance may enter vehicles with a transport capacity, tough they will count as two models".

 

Does this mean that with the IP it is either the repar/fire support squad (IP+servitors) or the cav squad (IP on TW+Cybers)?

 

Also, there's a bit of debate about whether the wolves count as wargear or squad, since the IP isn't an IC. In any case, the servitors wouldn't go if the IP died.

 

For me this is clear = The IP + wolves + servitors is a squad were the minimum size is 1 IP 0 Cybers and 0 Servitors. Just so you know that all I say is affected by that :D

[Wildfire]

As I said above, there's some debate on whether an IPs cyberwolves count as wargear or a squad. Either way, I personally would say they can go in a transport. But that's me.

[Natanael]

Edited that above, w/ my opinion. I think the unit entry on p. 87 makes that pretty clear but I don't want to drag that debate in here.

[Gentlemanloser]

The powerfist on a TWC is not rending. Taking the powerfist negates the ability to rend.

 

Fortunately (or Un. ;) ) the TWC Rending Special Rule isn't the same s the one given by the TWM Wargear option. The TWM Wargear goesn't allow Rending to be used with special Close Cobat Weapons.

 

The TWC Unit special rule (like Canis nd his paired Wolf Claws) of Rending doesn't have this stipulation, only that it's 'Close Combat Only' (so no Rending Bolt Pistol shots).

 

So the Single Special Close Combat Weapon you can purchase in a TWC unit still Rends.

 

I'd agree with you that the three TWC with a powerfist is better than an IP on mount with cyberwolves, for a few more points. They are in different slots, which can sometimes make a difference. However, I'm talking about a IP on foot with servitors and cyberwolves. That's what I mean when I say "a nasty CC unit without a transport option."

 

Yeah, Fast slots are usually in less competition than Elite. ;)

 

If you add in Servitors, you've wasted the 'Cavalry' rules of the IP on his TWM and the Cyberwolves (and spent more points that could have been spent on more TWC! :P) I still see it as nothing more than a gimmick unit.

[Wildfire]

The powerfist on a TWC is not rending. Taking the powerfist negates the ability to rend.

 

Fortunately (or Un. :D ) the TWC Rending Special Rule isn't the same s the one given by the TWM Wargear option. The TWM Wargear goesn't allow Rending to be used with special Close Cobat Weapons.

 

The TWC Unit special rule (like Canis nd his paired Wolf Claws) of Rending doesn't have this stipulation, only that it's 'Close Combat Only' (so no Rending Bolt Pistol shots).

 

So the Single Special Close Combat Weapon you can purchase in a TWC unit still Rends.

 

Hmm, interesting. I don't know that I'd agree with that. I'll have to do some reading. I was under the impression that taking a special CC weapon negated any special CC abilities.

 

I'd agree with you that the three TWC with a powerfist is better than an IP on mount with cyberwolves, for a few more points. They are in different slots, which can sometimes make a difference. However, I'm talking about a IP on foot with servitors and cyberwolves. That's what I mean when I say "a nasty CC unit without a transport option."

 

Yeah, Fast slots are usually in less competition than Elite. ;)

 

Depends on the player and the army. I usually run out of FA slots before elites, especially with marine lists.

 

If you add in Servitors, you've wasted the 'Cavalry' rules of the IP on his TWM and the Cyberwolves (and spent more points that could have been spent on more TWC! :ph34r:) I still see it as nothing more than a gimmick unit.

 

Again, I'm not talking about an IP on TWM, but an IP on foot. As I have said, the only thing the IP is lacking to make it great is a transport option. Look at it this way, would you consider an IP with 3x servitors and 3x wolves in a rhino for 160 points a good deal? I certainly would.

[Gentlemanloser]

Ah Sorry!

 

Drop the Servitors down by one, so the Squad has a Majority Toughness of 5 from the Wolves. :P

 

I was under the impression that taking a special CC weapon negated any special CC abilities

 

Shrike still has his Rending Lightning Claws. ;)

[Valerian]

Ah Sorry!

 

Drop the Servitors down by one, so the Squad has a Majority Toughness of 5 from the Wolves. :P

 

I was under the impression that taking a special CC weapon negated any special CC abilities

 

Shrike still has his Rending Lightning Claws. ;)

 

So does Canis, for that matter.

[Gentlemanloser]

Yup, just trying to give another example of a Specail Weapon also delivering a Special Rule.

 

I'm sure there's a 'Poisoned Weapon' one out there. Most likely in the Daemon Codex somewhere...

[stinkenheim]

typhus manreaper, a poisoned, daemon force weapon... thats a lot of abilities in one scythe...