Jack42494 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I have seen pictures of leman russ tanks in old space wolves pictures, but in the new codex, they were removed! Anybody know why, or have any ideas about how or why one should use one? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhorse47 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Unfortunately, we lost them in the new codex. I am now building an IG PDF so I can still use them in Apoc games, a Space Marine protectorate unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2220717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 They added them in 3rd Ed for no reason other than they are called Leman Russ tanks, and were very rightly removed this time round. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2220722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantyr Greymantle Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 "rightly"? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2220729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Leman Russ battle tanks have no place in a Space Marine codex. Especially for such a stupid reason as they are named after the Primarch Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2220732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhorse47 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Why not? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2220738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I've seen people run them as oddly shaped Predator Destructors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2220744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantyr Greymantle Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 why should a Predator or Vindicator be seen in a Space Marine army but not an Russ? …and Wolves aren't just Space Marines…and this tank is named after our Primarch, after all Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2220746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 If the SW don't get the Leman Russ Battle Tank after all the fluff and background they put into it then the tank should be erased from WH40k and another name/history assigned to it. Seriously... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2220756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastrchief33 Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Leman Russ battle tanks not belonging in a Space Wolf army is probably one the most ridiculous things I've heard in quite a while. Ofcourse they do, they were named after the chapter's Primarch. Fluff-wise it's perfect and in game-terms the EXT was useful under the 4th ed ruleset, but certainly not overpowered or nearly as useful as IG Russes. They balanced it well in the 3rd ed codex and could've kept it with slight changes. I'd have liked them to keep the EXT in there, same as it was but with the Lumbering Behemoth rule. It did used to turn out a possible 13 S5 or higher shots with moderate AP at decent range at BS4. Its not close to a GEQ grinder like the Punisher is, but it does its part. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2220759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thylacine Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Here is an interesting idea. Flood GW with complaints, e-mail or phone them, depending if you local in the Uk or OS and tell them you want the LRE back as a FAQ. The thing is new writers come in and work on a codex and they want to put their stamp on the book, however players and 'CUSTOMERS' who spend good money on their plastic have other ideas. Lots of Leman Russ Exterminators were sold to SW players and I like many are annoyed that by a stroke of a pen or perhaps omission the tank is now regulated to Apocalypse only status. Not good enough GW you dropped the ball on this one. Get off your duffs and write a letter. e-mail or pick up the phone and 'COMPLAIN', companies don't like complaints and if enough of them roll in they take ACTION! Thank you for your time and attention. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2220784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marek Grimfang Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I cannot think of anything that has been changed by GW as a result of people writing saucy-angry letters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2220789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 The only reason they added them into the 3rd codex was because of the name and to show off the new Exterminator variant, which was the only kind they could get. As for fluff, the marines only use tanks based from the Rhino STC and Landraider STC as these are considered sacred and blessed vehicle designs, as opposed to the more primitive Leman Russ vehicles. Also, as many people may cry about, ALL space marines are strike forces. Even the imperial fists are, they just happen to also be good at building fortifications (Advance, fortify, repeat). The slow Leman Russes couldn't keep up with the rest of the army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2220796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 why should a Predator or Vindicator be seen in a Space Marine army but not an Russ? …and Wolves aren't just Space Marines…and this tank is named after our Primarch, after all Can you imagine if it turned out Roboute's middle name was 'Baneblade'? The rest of us would be spitting chips if the UM got to include it in their armies! You might then counter "Yeah but that is an A-poc unit, that is not right" Then I would put forward your tenuous argument "but it's his name" If the SW don't get the Leman Russ Battle Tank after all the fluff and background they put into it then the tank should be erased from WH40k and another name/history assigned to it. Seriously... That seems a bit of a leap to me.... It is an IG tank that doesn't fit into any SM army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2220797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 If the SW don't get the Leman Russ Battle Tank after all the fluff and background they put into it then the tank should be erased from WH40k and another name/history assigned to it. Seriously... That seems a bit of a leap to me.... It is an IG tank that doesn't fit into any SM army. It is an IG tank that wouldn't exist if the Wolves hadn't saved the forge world during the heresy. That act is honored by giving the Wolves access to a few Leman Russ tanks...the only SM chapter with that privilege. **EDIT** Just to clarify and make sure we are all on the same page. There is a specific portion of fluff involving the Horus Heresy...Space Wolves...Leman Russ...Battle Tank. I don't have the specifics in front of me but the quick and dirty summary is that Leman Russ was late returning to Terra to battle Horus partly due to his liberation of important targets along the way. One of the worlds held the STC that later resulted in the Leman Russ Battle Tank. It was named for him because of this and resulted in tribute given to the Space Wolf chapter (and no other SM chapter). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2220810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Which is a bit of tenuous fluff drafted up in 3rd Ed to justify putting it in the codex. It's just my personal opinion. I think it is nowhere near as ridiculous as having Space Wolves ride actual wolves into battle just because they are called Space Wolves. Just my 2pence/cents anyway Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2220837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thylacine Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 There seen to be so many turncoats and traitors to the chapter buying into this thread, how richly bizarre! Nothing like a bit of unrest and disunity amongst the gaming community to make us look foolish. If you don't have a Leman Russ Exterminator in your Space Wolf army then you don't know how good they could be and if that is the case don't bother to comment. If you never wanted a Leman Russ Exterminator in your Space Wolf list, as above don't bother to comment. The LRE was a good tank, fluff aside, it worked well in a number of missions and was neither under priced nor over powered. It was one of the things that set Space Wolf lists/armies aside from MEQ lists. So many gamers especially tournament players count SW's as just SM's and would rather see them lumped under the one codex! We who own Leman Russ Exterminators reveled in the uniqueness of having a battle tank on call for games or tournaments. It made the other players think, it was a fire magnet, soaked up hits and cut holes in the 'hoard' lists for out Grey Hunters and Blood Claws to exploit. A lot of us want what we had for nine years (and still have) back in the codex! There is nothing in the new codex to replace the Leman Russ Exterminator. I know that some list members will point at Thunderwolves and say look what we have now and they may have their place but GW has no models planned for them in the near future. You could walk into any GW store and buy a LRE, now you have to order a neat looking turret from Forge World or convert up a set of Auto-cannon barrels but that's not much of a problem if you want a snazzy looking tank on the table. So how about you nay naysayer's keep your negative comments for the gaming table and lets not have this thread descend into a flaming war? As I wrote previously, if you would like the Leman Russ Exterminator back in the codex via FAQ, contact GW tell them how let down you feel by them dropping a vehicle unique to the chapter and perhaps they will listen and put it back in! It makes sense to GW as a few lines in an FAQ means more sales in their stores! Peace, love and harmony all! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2220923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 There seen to be so many turncoats and traitors to the chapter buying into this thread, how richly bizarre! Nothing like a bit of unrest and disunity amongst the gaming community to make us look foolish. Turncoats and Traitors? Are YOU flaming sir? Who cares if others think your foolish ~ integrity and honesty is better than a whitewashed facade. If you don't have a Leman Russ Exterminator in your Space Wolf army then you don't know how good they could be and if that is the case don't bother to comment. If you never wanted a Leman Russ Exterminator in your Space Wolf list, as above don't bother to comment. Translation; If you don't agree with me I'll get cross and take my bat and ball and go home. Then my "real" friends will agree with me and tell me how I have been short-changed and how I am persecuted. Plus hopefully they'll think the naysayers are jerks too. Do you really want a wallow-fest thread? The LRE was a good tank, fluff aside, it worked well in a number of missions and was neither under priced nor over powered. It was one of the things that set Space Wolf lists/armies aside from MEQ lists. So many gamers especially tournament players count SW's as just SM's and would rather see them lumped under the one codex! We who own Leman Russ Exterminators reveled in the uniqueness of having a battle tank on call for games or tournaments. It made the other players think, it was a fire magnet, soaked up hits and cut holes in the 'hoard' lists for out Grey Hunters and Blood Claws to exploit. No-one is saying it was not worthwhile to have. Valkyries and Vendettas are "good" for Guard, it still doesn't mean they fit the list. If they were not good, then you would have been a bit of a silly-duffer to take them wouldn't you? A lot of us want what we had for nine years (and still have) back in the codex! There is nothing in the new codex to replace the Leman Russ Exterminator. I know that some list members will point at Thunderwolves and say look what we have now and they may have their place but GW has no models planned for them in the near future. You could walk into any GW store and buy a LRE, now you have to order a neat looking turret from Forge World or convert up a set of Auto-cannon barrels but that's not much of a problem if you want a snazzy looking tank on the table. So how about you nay naysayer's keep your negative comments for the gaming table and lets not have this thread descend into a flaming war? You are the one labelling people. Surely the Fang of all places is somewhere to voice heartfelt opinions based on solid reasoning? Or should I put away the tankard and break out the kleenex? Do you want yes-men or people who will speak straight to you? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2220941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Surely telling people not to comment on an opinion board is anathema to the purpose we are all here for? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2220947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I dont have a Leman Russ... I wish I did, and that they were legal, and updated as to the new IG rules... *spreads hands*. I think it is a wonderful distinctive tank... and I think I know why its not in our codex. 2 Predators Destructors- 4 Auotcannon Shots, 12 Heavy Bolter shots. 1 Leman Russ Exteriminator- 4 Autocannon Shots, 9 Heavy Bolter shots, better armor. I do believe it is really that simple- in an IG army they run about 160pts with sponsons, how could you manage to balance what they are and what they can do with BS 4 without having people go "just get two predators"? It was simply to situational, and with so many HS choices already.... they dropped it. They should bring it back... and maybe they will in 2019. Until then, I only hope your local gaming groups are willing to give some leeway, as Ive seen some beautiful conversions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2220965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 The only reason they added them into the 3rd codex was because of the name and to show off the new Exterminator variant, which was the only kind they could get. Great answer, I remember when the suddenly added it to the codex, with a ridiculous bit of after-thought fluff, I'm so very glad its gone. Here here, it doesn't suit a space marine army whatsoever, and they simply wouldn't employ such a lumbering, slow vehicle, it doesn't suit their style/ethos at all. edit: and by the way, getting rid of it was one of the reasons I started collecting them in this incarnation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2221048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Actually, they should simply rename the Leman Russ to something else, but it's been around too long to change. Back in RT days, Leman Russ was a famous IG commander, not a space marine at all (much less a primarch). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2221063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Actually, they should simply rename the Leman Russ to something else, but it's been around too long to change. Back in RT days, Leman Russ was a famous IG commander, not a space marine at all (much less a primarch). I have no problem with them renaming it and wiping the history. I think I would prefer it. But as of now with the latest version of fluff it "should" be in a SW army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2221096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 i used to take one all the time when i first started playing wolves, then i flitted around other armies before coming back a couple of years back and couldn't fit it in. am i sad its gone... not really. i look at our current hvy choices and the improvement in things like long fangs and im not too bothered. as grey mage said, and as many others said towards the end of the last codex, why pay the points for one when you could get 2 predators for about the same price that can put out more shots and require two units to shoot at them if they want them both dead in one turn. in all honesty it was never a great 'fit' with the space marine theme. leman russes are slow and ponerous vehicles, predators/rhinos are quicker vehicles designed tokeep up with the pace that marines conduct battles. as far as im concerned it should remain part of the IG and shouldn't really make a comeback just because it shares its name with our primarch. if it was in our coex i may use it, but i don't think it should be tere in the first place. we already have enough about us to differentiate ourselves from normal marines and shouldn;t need the help of other armies vehicles with tentative explanations as to why we have them in the first place. +edit+ just quickly wildfire, i think you'll find russ was originally an imperial commander (not imperial guard), back before primarchs were really defined... in fact alot of the 40k background was redone and reinmagned in the years that followed the release of RT. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2221149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Probably true stinkenheim. It's far enough back that my memory is starting to fade. I agree, though, that just because a tank is named after Russ, the SW don't necessarily need to use it. There's an aircraft carrier named after George Washington, but he was no sailor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187675-leman-russ-tanks-in-a-space-wolves-army/#findComment-2221592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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