Wolf Guard Hengist Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Search Fu has failed before anyone screams "Search!". Apparently in the Dawn of War scenario a Troop choice + dedicated transport = 2 troop choices for the purpose of deploying? Eh? Since when did a dedicated transport take up a FoC slot. I cant seem to find an explanation of this in the book can anyone help and clarify this and point me to the rules? Second question is about Wolf Tail talismans. Lets say Ive got a Rune Priest with a Wolf Tail Talisman in a unit of Grey Hunters. A Chaos sorceror casts lash on the unit from within the 24" range. Heres the question, do I get to roll to nulify the power being cast by the Priests Runic Weapon and then if that fails and lash now effects the unit do I get to roll for my Talisman as well? OR Do I just get one roll? Cheers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Its nothing to do with FOC slots, its the type of unit- a dedicated transport for a troops unit is a "troop choice" while a Dedicated transport for an HQ squad is an "HQ choice" etc. Youd get your runic weapon save, and then your WTT aswell. The RW stops it from happening, the WTT stopts it from affecting your unit, and if it did a wound runic armor would then give you a 5++ against that aswell. Oh, and the thing about dedicated transports isnt stated blatantly, but it is shown in the example of DOW deployment on the bottom right of the page.... pg 93. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2221866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Second question is about Wolf Tail talismans. Lets say Ive got a Rune Priest with a Wolf Tail Talisman in a unit of Grey Hunters. A Chaos sorceror casts lash on the unit from within the 24" range. Heres the question, do I get to roll to nulify the power being cast by the Priests Runic Weapon and then if that fails and lash now effects the unit do I get to roll for my Talisman as well? OR Do I just get one roll? I believe you first check to see if the runic weapon stops the psychic power in the attempt, and if that fails and the power goes off then you use the Talisman to see if you can nulify the effect of the power on the squad... at least thats how I think it works but I'm not 100% sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2221867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Grey Mage: on that note, I was in a game recently where a player insisted he could place a taq squad and a rhino as his '2' troops choices in a mission scenario (rather than the rhino and marines as one troops choice), have you encountered this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2221897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Grey Mage: on that note, I was in a game recently where a player insisted he could place a taq squad and a rhino as his '2' troops choices in a mission scenario (rather than the rhino and marines as one troops choice), have you encountered this? Im not sure I understand the question- you never have to place the units, and from the sounds of it he did it properly- one was the rhino, the other the tac squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2221909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldenhaller Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Wondering aswell then that if you have a dedicated transport for a HQ - would you be able to choose this as the HQ for your standard mission setup? ~O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2221911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Wondering aswell then that if you have a dedicated transport for a HQ - would you be able to choose this as the HQ for your standard mission setup? ~O It would seem to make sense- just like a SM player can use a Command Squad sans captain, and Eldar can use Warlock Bodygaurds sans Farseer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2221914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Wondering aswell then that if you have a dedicated transport for a HQ - would you be able to choose this as the HQ for your standard mission setup? ~O No. Remember, you can't buy the dedicated transport without buying the HQ who it is dedicated to. I think the reason the rules are set up this way is to keep IG players in DOW from dropping 2 full platoons split into 6 squads each plus the platoon HQ, plus the army HQ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2221915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Wondering aswell then that if you have a dedicated transport for a HQ - would you be able to choose this as the HQ for your standard mission setup? ~O No. Remember, you can't buy the dedicated transport without buying the HQ who it is dedicated to. I think the reason the rules are set up this way is to keep IG players in DOW from dropping 2 full platoons split into 6 squads each plus the platoon HQ, plus the army HQ. Its not the purchase of the transport, merely its lone deployment he was asking about... if I understood correctly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2221923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Wondering aswell then that if you have a dedicated transport for a HQ - would you be able to choose this as the HQ for your standard mission setup? ~O No. Remember, you can't buy the dedicated transport without buying the HQ who it is dedicated to. I think the reason the rules are set up this way is to keep IG players in DOW from dropping 2 full platoons split into 6 squads each plus the platoon HQ, plus the army HQ. Its not the purchase of the transport, merely its lone deployment he was asking about... if I understood correctly. I thought he was asking if he could take a dedicated rhino as his HQ choice, forgoing the need for an expensive character. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2221928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldenhaller Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Wondering aswell then that if you have a dedicated transport for a HQ - would you be able to choose this as the HQ for your standard mission setup? ~O No. Remember, you can't buy the dedicated transport without buying the HQ who it is dedicated to. I think the reason the rules are set up this way is to keep IG players in DOW from dropping 2 full platoons split into 6 squads each plus the platoon HQ, plus the army HQ. Sorry - I was thinking more of buying a hq and the unit it starts with but starting the tank in play and the hq unit itself in reserve ~O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2221932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Wondering aswell then that if you have a dedicated transport for a HQ - would you be able to choose this as the HQ for your standard mission setup? ~O No. Remember, you can't buy the dedicated transport without buying the HQ who it is dedicated to. I think the reason the rules are set up this way is to keep IG players in DOW from dropping 2 full platoons split into 6 squads each plus the platoon HQ, plus the army HQ. Sorry - I was thinking more of buying a hq and the unit it starts with but starting the tank in play and the hq unit itself in reserve ~O Oh, that's perfectly legal (if the transport was bought for an HQ unit. You couldn't attach a wolf lord to a wolf guard unit then take the wolf guard's rhino and deploy it as your HQ as an example). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2221935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Sorry Grey mage, to clarify: I meant deploying a taq asquad and its dedicated rhino, as 2 troops choices (when its just one, as a 'rhino' is a transport, and takes up no slot). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2221942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Sorry Grey mage, to clarify: I meant deploying a taq asquad and its dedicated rhino, as 2 troops choices (when its just one, as a 'rhino' is a transport, and takes up no slot). It is however still a troops unit, and for Dawn of War deployment, and any scenarios that count special rules for unit type *but dont mention dedicated transports* it will count as a troop unit. In DOW he doesnt have to place both, as its "up to" 2 troops and 1 HQ. But a unit with transport is 2 units. Edit: Note, that means that in a standard SM army a unit of assault terminators with dedicated landraider counts as two "elites" even though it takes up one slot. Much like an IG Infantry platoon has atleast three units, but only one slot is taken up... or Death Cult assassins, and currently biovores, lictors, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2221944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Just out of interest, where does it say a transport is a troops unit? as far as I'm aware its adedicated transport, which takes up no slot. In which case, it can't count as a troops choice... I'm not saying he can't deploy the troops without the rhino, but the two aren't both a troops unit each... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2221949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 PAge 93 of the rulebook. In the DoW deployment example it states that a unit and its dedicated transport each take up one of the troops choices you can deploy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2221957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Just out of interest, where does it say a transport is a troops unit? as far as I'm aware its adedicated transport, which takes up no slot. In which case, it can't count as a troops choice... I'm not saying he can't deploy the troops without the rhino, but the two aren't both a troops unit each... Slots have nothing to do with the designation. However it is rather simple- when you buy the rhino for say a Grey Hunter squad, you dont choose it from the "dedicated transports section" though yes, that is where you find the points and the rules, you select it from the troops entry you found the Grey Hunters in- thus its chosen in the "troops section". You only refer to the DT section for points values. And again, the example from GW is on the bottom right of pg 93 in the main rulebook. If it wasnt for that I wouldnt play it this way... but thats pretty straight forward, and makes sense. It occurs to me you might be asking something else, and I just missed it: Is this person saying that for the basic requirements of his army he is taking a rhino and a tactical squad? It is not a FOC slot by itself, because of that it cannot be one of the mandatory units for an army. It is a part of something elses FOC slot, much like a heavy weapon team from an IG infantry plattoon- this is why its different than say an Emperors Champion, wich while not using up an FOC slot by default is an HQ unit by itself and so can lead a force. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2221969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Fair enough, cheers, I shall go read page 93. after work. I understand your reasoning, but I still don't think the rhino is a 'troops choice' as such... But thanks ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2221973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 You place a Troops Unit, not a Troops FOC slot. Vehicles are units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2222117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Yep i get that, but are they a 'troops' unit, specifically? I'm not sold on that, they aren't an 'entry' in the troops selection list, they are a transport option (the costings/options for that transport come from a seperate section). So, I'm not sold on the idea that you class a rhino as a troops unit, its just a unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2222149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Yep i get that, but are they a 'troops' unit, specifically? I'm not sold on that, they aren't an 'entry' in the troops selection list, they are a transport option (the costings/options for that transport come from a seperate section). So, I'm not sold on the idea that you class a rhino as a troops unit, its just a unit. Under that intrepretation no transports could be deployed in DoW as they are not Troops units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2222152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Yep i get that, but are they a 'troops' unit, specifically? The dedicated transport vehicle is a 'troops' unit when purchased for a Troops unit; if purchased for some other type of unit, then it will mirror whatever FOC slot that unit falls under. Just look at page 93 and follow the example. It really isn't worth wasting any extra brainpower over. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2222157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 LOL, i've read pg 93. but it doesn't actually say that the transport becomes a troops unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2222175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Any unit you buy from the Troops section is a Troops unit. Seeing as the option to purchase a Rhino for Grey Hunters is underneath their entry in the Troops section, they are a Troops unit. There is no 'Dedicated Transport' section in your Force Organization Chart. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2222180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 LOL, i've read pg 93. but it doesn't actually say that the transport becomes a troops unit. It doesn't say "becomes a troops unit" It says "their dedicated transport (which is his second unit of Troops)." Please don't let this thread derail into the definition of "is" Mr. President Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187775-couple-of-rules-questions/#findComment-2222193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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