Deathstrorm Drop Pod

[waaanial00]

Hi all,

 

I am a bit slow on the old Imperial Armour front, I have only recently found out about them and have an IA game in the new year that I would like to get to grips with. So I was wondering when exactly the Deathstorm resolves it shooting attacks? I have read a similar topic via searchy, was last year, but the question was not clearly answered for me.

 

Now the wording is

 

"When a Deathstorm drop pod lands it

opens fire indiscriminately. After landing, each unit (enemy or friendly)

within 12” of the Deathstorm and in line of sight comes under

attack as a hail of missiles sweep the surrounding area."

 

Hopefully the above is ok to quote as it was on the IA PDF update found here

 

So given the above are the shooting attacks resolved before the momement phase? So drop pods come in from reserve, Deathstorm is deployed and immediately you start to resolve the shooting? Or is this just a fancy way of saying that in its initial shooting phase it goes crazy and throws down that amount of fire?

 

I was thinking of using 1 of these and 2 Lucius pattern drop pods (the opponent is using some fairly nasty stuff and I want to prove to him why IA should remain with opponents consent) so this ruling will greatly influence where the pod will be targeted.

 

Oh and I dont suppose there is a consensus on what happens to Dreadnoughts when their pod is destroyed via Mystic shooting? Also I assume that I am reading this right and it would mean D3 x 4 Assault Cannon shots not D3 Assault Cannon shots (it says Assault Cannon attacks so I assumed so).

 

Cheers all

 

Wan

[Grey Mage]

My group plays it as immediately after deep striking, even before deploying other Deep Strikers.

[JamesI]

Grey Mage's answer seems the fairest. If its in the shooting phase, the friendlies could all move out of its range, which does not seem to be the point of the rules.

[Grey Mage]

And yes, that would be d3 assault cannons, or d3x4 shots.

 

And all it does is blow up the DP... nothing happens to the dread, as the pod is already deployed when this occurs. I suppose you could state if they make it explode that it takes a str 4 hit, wich of course cant hurt a dread.... and be done.

[waaanial00]

The gent I am playing is very "poetic" with the rules and is a great one for rulls must = fluff. As such I wanted to make sure that my Dreads were not going to be removed due to some crazy rule I hadnt heard of (I have already told him that there is nothing that i know of in the rules which stops a Dread from landing even if the pod is destroyed).

 

Thanks gents. Deathstorm on the initial landing it is then (assuming he is not putting things into reserve).

 

Wan

[JamesI]

The gent I am playing is very "poetic" with the rules and is a great one for rulls must = fluff. As such I wanted to make sure that my Dreads were not going to be removed due to some crazy rule I hadnt heard of (I have already told him that there is nothing that i know of in the rules which stops a Dread from landing even if the pod is destroyed).

 

Thanks gents. Deathstorm on the initial landing it is then (assuming he is not putting things into reserve).

 

Wan

According to the demonhunter FAQ a unit with mystics can shoot at either the drop pod or the unit that disembarks from the drop pod.

 

Just so you know, since if the mystics unit can hurt a drop pod, it can hurt a dread.

[Hellios]

The gent I am playing is very "poetic" with the rules and is a great one for rulls must = fluff. As such I wanted to make sure that my Dreads were not going to be removed due to some crazy rule I hadnt heard of (I have already told him that there is nothing that i know of in the rules which stops a Dread from landing even if the pod is destroyed).

 

Thanks gents. Deathstorm on the initial landing it is then (assuming he is not putting things into reserve).

 

Wan

 

As James says he can target the dreadnought or drop pod, although I guess this is based on after its disembarked so you could hide it behind the drop pod?

 

I don't think Deathstorms are overpowered but maybe under priced, they certainly are great I love em... dread drop pods... ahahahaha fun but yer very nasty for certain armies especially if they haven't got anything to counter it.

[waaanial00]

Thanks gents. Now all I gotta do is find out the limitations of the Mystics (no need to jump in if you dont want to) and I am all set for my battle plan. Knew there would be a decent counter to the drop pods, otherwise he wouldnt have suggested running the army he chose.

 

Should be a fun game, some of the Imperial Armour rules are a bit barmy, still will be nice to see some of them in action.

 

Thanks again.

 

Wan

[Hfran Morkai]

I think it is if the Inquisitor has two or more Mystics in his retinue the unit can take a free shot (or round of shooting?) at a deep-striking unit within 18 inches, or they can "give" the shot to another unit within a set distance.

 

Why did I leave my DH dex at uni?

[JamesI]

I think it is if the Inquisitor has two or more Mystics in his retinue the unit can take a free shot (or round of shooting?) at a deep-striking unit within 18 inches, or they can "give" the shot to another unit within a set distance.

 

Why did I leave my DH dex at uni?

If the inquisitor has 1 mystic he and his retinue can shoot deepstrikers within a rolled for distance. If he has 2, another unit within a short distance can shoot instead.

[Valerian]

"When a Deathstorm drop pod lands it

opens fire indiscriminately. After landing, each unit (enemy or friendly)

within 12” of the Deathstorm and in line of sight comes under

attack as a hail of missiles sweep the surrounding area."

 

So given the above are the shooting attacks resolved before the momement phase? So drop pods come in from reserve, Deathstorm is deployed and immediately you start to resolve the shooting? Or is this just a fancy way of saying that in its initial shooting phase it goes crazy and throws down that amount of fire?

 

I'd actually play it as conducting its attacks in the next Shooting phase, as normal; that is, after all, when shooting occurs. There is nothing in the quote above that indicates that the standard progression of phases should be ignored. The rules in the IA detail what happens after landing (in the owning player's Shooting phase, which is "after landing"), and then it goes on to describe what it does after that initial burst of indiscriminate firing (i.e. in all subsequent Shooting phases in the remaining turns of the game).

 

My personal opinion is that the rules must be very explicit if they truly want you to ignore a fundamental game mechanic like resolving ranged attacks out of phase. That isn't the case in the above scenario.

 

Regards,

 

V

[rat of vengence]

I second this. Shooting immediately on landing gives the marine player a huge advantage; he can deploy the rest of the pods/reserves AFTER seeing what gets wiped out by the broken deathstorm, and at no risk to them being hit too.

 

I would play it fires in the next available shooting phase. As Valerian said, there is no explicit allowing of breaking the normal turn sequence.

 

RoV

 

RoV

[Hellios]

I use the whirlwind deathstorm because it won't hurt my deepstriking dreads :D

[Isiah]

It opens fire in the shooting phase as the rules say [note make sure you have the latest pdf Version 1.3]. The important bit that was added in this newer version I've highlighted in bold:

 

"When a Deathstorm drop pod lands it opens fire indiscriminately. After landing, each unit (enemy or friendly) within 12” of the Deathstorm and in line of sight comes under attack in its shooting phase as a hail of fire sweep the surrounding area."

 

Latest version IA2 (v1.3) REVISED downloadable from this page

 

Cheers

I

[waaanial00]

Thanks Isiah,

 

Best to be singing off the most recent song sheet after all. This at least slightly fixes this quite nasty weapon, the tactica was going to be deploy first to stop myself getting shot (bare in mind that this is to teach my opponent why Imperial Armour needs to remain with permission only, I am not usually this much of a cheese monger - no offense to anyone).

 

However with the shooting happening in my shooting phase this at least means I will keep this thing as far away from me as I can. Now this plus Damocles Rhino means the scatter should be to my liking :D The Imperial Armour stuff is a little serious isnt it? Thanks to all the efforts people have put into this.

 

Wan

[Hellios]

I use deathstorm with whirlwinds rather than assault cannons and drop them in with dreadnoughts because the whirlwind missiles won't hurt the dreadnoughts :P

[Grey Mage]

It opens fire in the shooting phase as the rules say [note make sure you have the latest pdf Version 1.3]. The important bit that was added in this newer version I've highlighted in bold:

 

"When a Deathstorm drop pod lands it opens fire indiscriminately. After landing, each unit (enemy or friendly) within 12” of the Deathstorm and in line of sight comes under attack in its shooting phase as a hail of fire sweep the surrounding area."

 

Latest version IA2 (v1.3) REVISED downloadable from this page

 

Cheers

I

Ah, didnt know theyd updated again. Thank god they changed that... I used to have people telling me it couldnt fire at all when it landed, so I went the other direction until it stuck.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Actually, a Deathstorm's effectiveness is increased if you drop it along with a Dread pod.

 

Drop them both within 12" and you get 2d3 extra shots (one at the dread, one at the pod) that have a chance of scattering into enemies.

[Brother_Dan'l]

igotsmeakabob!!, it's people like you what cause unrest. ;)

 

It's PV works if it follows the normal vehicle and Deep Strike rules. So as it is not a Fast Vehicle, and vehicles arriving via DS are considered as having moved at Cruising Speed, it may not shoot the turn it lands. But if you go with the way it is currently written and allow it to shoot the turn it lands it's at least 100% undervalued. Consider an army with only 3 pods, the pair of Deathstorms (a piddly 100 points) land on turn one and evaporate 2/3rds of the enemy infantry and even some light armor before they even move for the first time. Gee, sounds like fun! :)

 

The Deathstorm is dreadfully broken and is one the reasons many groups won't use IA "Experimental" rules on a bet. It's on par with playing a Virus Outbreak against the Guard in 2e. It's the kind of thing that chases people out of the hobby because it's so obviously, stupidly broken.

[Hellios]

igotsmeakabob!!, it's people like you what cause unrest. ;)

 

It's PV works if it follows the normal vehicle and Deep Strike rules. So as it is not a Fast Vehicle, and vehicles arriving via DS are considered as having moved at Cruising Speed, it may not shoot the turn it lands. But if you go with the way it is currently written and allow it to shoot the turn it lands it's at least 100% undervalued. Consider an army with only 3 pods, the pair of Deathstorms (a piddly 100 points) land on turn one and evaporate 2/3rds of the enemy infantry and even some light armor before they even move for the first time. Gee, sounds like fun! <_<

 

The Deathstorm is dreadfully broken and is one the reasons many groups won't use IA "Experimental" rules on a bet. It's on par with playing a Virus Outbreak against the Guard in 2e. It's the kind of thing that chases people out of the hobby because it's so obviously, stupidly broken.

75pts each they are really good but they can be neutralized it depends on how flexible your army is, but I admit it is probably under pointed but I don't find its broken. and it is unlikely to destroy 2/3rds on 1 turn... although it's fun to see the mess it can amke of DE... although yes it can cause a mess of a lot of armies but normally won't destroy 2/3 of the infantry.

[Isiah]

While all very interesting, discussing the merits and tactics of a unit/item is for somewhere else on the B&C rather than the OR :). Also, the IA rules are not "Experimental" as far as I know –– but official updates to bring the old IA2 into current Codex and 5th Ed alignment.

 

Cheers

I

[Grey Mage]

Ahh, but they are not "official" rules to begin with... so these are the updated rules for a book of unofficial rules.

[Hellios]

Ahh, but they are not "official" rules to begin with... so these are the updated rules for a book of unofficial rules.

 

I would say that is subjective because a good number of people deem them to be official, however I know what you mean.

[rat of vengence]

Just as some people seem to think they aren't horribly undercosted for the damage they can do :)

 

 

I was thinking of using 1 of these and 2 Lucius pattern drop pods (the opponent is using some fairly nasty stuff and I want to prove to him why IA should remain with opponents consent) so this ruling will greatly influence where the pod will be targeted.

Deathstorms should do the trick in that case :)

 

 

RoV

[Isiah]

Ahh, but they are not "official" rules to begin with... so these are the updated rules for a book of unofficial rules.

 

 

Hmmm... OK so does that mean we shouldn't discuss them in them OR then? If that's your argument then maybe we shouldn't ;).

 

But my guess is that wouldn't be what most folks would want or expect and it would fall short of what the OR is set to achieve –– hence they [iA books and their associated FAQs] are considered "official" for the purposes of the OR and open for discussion.

 

Cheers

I