Nightrunner Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 A Thunderwolf Tactica This is a disclaimer that I want to put out there, before anyone starts ripping me a new one down the long tables of the great halls of the Fang. The aim of this tactica is to look at the different tactical applications of Thunderwolves in all their shapes and forms as what many regard as an integral part of both the rules and the character of the new (5th edition) Space Wolves Codex. It is written for those new to the codex, but hopefully everyone will have something to take from it. If anything in this article particularly offends or strikes you as wrong, then please feel free to comment! I am not perfect, and this is my best effort to improve the widely-held views of this unit. Additionally, if you feel there is something that I’ve missed, then please post here or PM me and we can go about fixing what I hope can be a solid resource for members of the Fang. However, if all you can say is that “Thunderwolves suck” and the like... well, I’d kindly ask you to post elsewhere. Depending upon the feedback from the Fang, I will continue and expand this into a full tactica to include Thunderwolves in all their forms, including for independent characters and the Iron priest. Let me know! Nightrunner <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightrunner Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 Thunderwolves Ho! The Basics Well, the best place to start anything is at the beginning; the basics of the unit. Thunderwolf Cavalry (TWC) are a fast attack choice for a Space Wolves army, a unit of Veterans of the Chapter, riding into battle some of the largest and fiercest beats from all of Fenris. The strength of this unit lies in its improved statistics and basic rules. Every Thunderwolf is essentially a Grey Hunter, with a bonus of +1 to their strength, toughness, wounds and four rending attacks to boot! Every one comes with a close combat weapon and bolt pistol, meaning that a single Thunderwolf puts out 6 S5 rending attacks on the charge. Plus, the standard frag and krak grenade outlay. Nifty! Perhaps the most important factor of their improved rules, though, is the fact that they gain the unit type: Cavalry. This does nothing for their basic movement, but gives them the Fleet of Foot rule and a 12” charge. Suddenly, this unit just got a whole lot scarier. Large Pets = More Bills...? A Guide to Upgrades So, I’ve hopefully spent the past bit of your life convincing you that Thunderwolves are the missing element to your army. If you haven’t guessed already, this unit is really focussed on close combat. With tremendous reach, loads of high strength, rending attacks and solid toughness they are more than a match for most enemy line-units. Sadly, I might have failed to mention one issue; their cost... Thunderwolves ain’t cheap, ladies and gentlemen. For the price of 3 Grey hunters toting a meltagun, you get a single model. He still has a 3+ save, so it’s down to that extra toughness and speed to keep him safe. The next factor is the upgrades. These are essential to improving the impact your Thunderwolves have on any game, and are soooo tempting. It is quite easy to find yourself loading up on wargear and generating a 450pt unit easily. With this in mind, we need to cut the wheat from the chaff. Note that all of these upgrades are priced at the “standard” cost for the codex, whilst I have given each a simple 1/5 rating for simplicity. Firstly, each and every Thunderwolf may replace their bolt pistol with the following: Boltgun: For free, it gives you a shooting attack you will most likely never use. Only consider for wound allocation purposes, for which it is most useful (see later). 2/5 Plasma Pistol: These have some mileage in a Thunderwolf unit, if you are really going all out for the killer unit of doom or an apocalypse game. However, in terms of cost effectiveness, this does not score well with me simply because it dilutes the role of the unit AND makes it even more expensive. Whilst I am sure that someone, somewhere, has managed to decimate a greater daemon or other super-character with some S7 Ap2 action pre-charge, most opponent’s are going to be doing their best to stay away from your TWC, or take casualties off that leave you out of charge range, leaving you sitting high and dry. 1/5 Storm Shield: For twice the cost of a plasma pistol, you get a 3+ invulnerable save. Obviously, you lose an attack, but this makes your TWC instantly more survivable in all areas. Expensive, but effective. See the “Shields Are for Wusses” section later. If you ARE going to take a Storm Shield, then this is the place to take it; it is the same cost as losing your pistol, but the difference is that EACH AND EVERY TWC can take this upgrade here, in place of the bolt pistol. As we will see later, if you want to make the most of your cavalry, you will need to consider the more offensive upgrades later. 3/5 Meltabombs: Any TWC can take this; note it does not replace the pistol, but I am discussing it here for ease! Meltabombs are the best piece of wargear for TWC, as it doesn’t dilute their effectiveness in CC whilst giving them something other than rending against vehicles and as we will come to see, is important for wound allocation. 3/5 Not a bad mix; however, the really juicy items come about in the next section. Only one of these weapons may be taken, and this is where you have to choose wisely, pups...! ;) It is also worth noting that, if you use your special close combat weapon, those attacks no longer count as rending. Note: At this time, until GW sees fit to release an FAQ, I am going to be assuming that TWC are effectively the same as the TW mount upgrade, and therefore lose the rending ability in combat if they take a special weapon. I cannot see the rules for the unit and the wargear of the mount as being so different, so until GW sees fit to clarify this, this is the stance this tactica will take. Thanks to Gentlmanloser. Power Weapon: The cheapest weapon choice, you still get the +1 attack for two combat weapons. However, for 5 points more, you get a Wolf claw and if you are going to include TWC, you need to commit to investing points in the unit. 2/5 Wolf Claw:Re-roll to hit or re-roll to wound, but you lose an attack. With the higher strength of the TWC, I think that the re-roll to hit is more important here, especially when combined with the “average” weapon skill of the rider. 3/5 Frost Blade: This is a solid upgrade for TWC, giving the rider +1 strength and letting them keep the extra attack for the CC weapon. 3/5 Personally, I prefer the Wolf claw over the frost blade; the math-hammer suggests that against a T6, WS4+ opponent, a frost blade will hit three times, wound 1 or 2 times depending on your luck (on average). A claw will hit 2/3 times on average, and with the re-roll to wound, the result is about the same – 1 or 2 wounds. However, against a T4 WS4 opponent i.e. a marine, the Frost blade wins out. Power Fist:For the same price as the Frost blade, you can have the Power fist. With a base strength 5, you are now swinging around one of the few ways to get strength 10 in a Space Wolves army. Effective against everything in close combat, especially vehicles and IC’s, the high strength and high number of attacks really maximises the damage output. Having to strike at initiative 1 is a worry, but hopefully your Thunderwolf isn’t alone, and toughness 5 means you should last long enough to hit. 4/5 Storm Shield: Taking this here, in place of the close combat weapon, means no special weapon for the squad. Why bother when you can replace the bolt pistol for a storm shield on every model, and still take an effective special weapon here? If you are hoping to make any sort of effective TWC build, you will be ignoring this in place of something to beat the enemey with. 0/5 Thunder Hammer: The most expensive upgrade (at the same cost as a Storm shield). However, it has all the bonuses of the power fist, but with the ability to “stun” an opponent that is wounded and survives. If you face a lot of Monstrous creatures with high toughness and invulnerable saves, then this is the weapon for you. 5/5 Mark of the Wulfen: For the same cost as Meltabombs, you give your TWC a 50/50 chance to roll LESS attacks than normal, and a 1 in 3 chance to improve their attacks. Unless you are a dice god...useless. 0/5 Too Many Wolves Spoil The Ale - How Many TWC is enough? So, you’ve read the options available. But now the burning question; how many to take? The more TWC you have, the more effective they are in terms of both attack and in survivability. Whilst the extra damage is nice with each extra member, I think it is the latter of these two factors – the survivability – that really is the most important. TWC usually have a good distance to travel, as most opponent’s don’t want to have them in their faces early on. Plus, by now, most players are aware of the staggering speed of TWC that means they can happily stay outside of the magical “Rapid Fire” range of most 40k armies and still sweep into combat next turn. This means that a lot of firepower coming your way will be high strength, and quite possibly low Ap. Combined with what in 40k 5th edition can only be described as an “average” 3+ save, they really need the extra bodies. Extra bodies means more wounds to get you across the board, and leads us nicely onto the next important factor – wound allocation. I mentioned this handy little rule earlier, when discussing equipment. It is the reason every Ork Nob riding a bike in the galaxy never has the same equipment as anyone else in his mob. For the Wolf lord, this, combined with T5 and two wounds, is the reason why equipping your TWC is such an important consideration. Wound allocation occurs whenever the unit takes a wounding hit, before saves are rolled. The unit is divided up into groups, depending upon their equipment, and wounds must be allocated to each group before saves are made. So, if you have three TWC and take three wounds, as long as they have different equipment, they can each roll their saves separately. Specifically, low AP weapons can be allocated to storm shields in the unit, allowing you to take damage but ultimately not lose bodies crossing the battlefield. With all of this in mind, and before we come to talk about Storm Shields later, the optimum number of TWC for a unit starts at three. Two is simply too small a unit, for quite a large price tag. For me, four has always been optimum, a mix of cost and damage, and five starts becoming a much bigger investment. So, with this in mind, this is what I might consider a “typical” load-out for a TWC unit, with the idea of wound allocation in mind. 3TWC: 1 basic (no upgrades), 1 with meltabombs, 1 with Thunderhammer. 185pts 4TWC: 1 basic, 1 with meltabombs, 1 with bolter, 1 with Thunderhammer. 235pts 5TWC: 1 basic (no upgrades), 1 with meltabombs, 1 with bolter , 1 with bolter and meltabombs, 1 with Thunderhammer. 290pts Each of these units can take a wounding hit on EVERY MEMBER of the squad before you have to start removing bodies. Each level of this set of units hits harder than the last, can take more than the last, and on the tabletop, looks even more imposing. A special mention here for something I messed around with in my trials. In a solo TWC, equipped with a special combat weapon and a storm shield, you have a small, easy to hide and surprisingly fast little unit that can run around, following a transport or tank, either to support an assault or to deter one. The problem with a single rider is that he ultimately only has a 3+ save, and weight of fire will bring him down. As I noted above, I wouldn’t take two TWC as a unit, as they start sucking up points and are too small in size for the impact I want. Not the most cost effective, in my mind and try-outs, but fun nonetheless. Shields Are for Wusses! – Do TWC really need Storm Shields? Damn you Games Workshop. Damn you all to hell. Why? Because so far, you have given us this perfect unit, hard hitting and fast, durable, with some great weapons options. But they are already expensive. So what do you dangle in front of our faces but the holy grail; the 3+ invulnerable save. Unless you are a Dark Eldar player, a 3+ invulnerable save is the best you can get. However, here in the Fang we pay a premium for it and boy, does it show with TWC. If we take the three units above and add-in Storm shields for everyone, you suddenly find that, short of taking “Mark of the Wulfen”, you can’t maximise your wound allocation. Also, the cost of the units skyrockets; that last unit is 440 points! I don’t know who you are or where you are reading this from, but around here, 1500-1750 is the regular level for most games. Even at 2000pts, spending nearly a third of them on one unit....all I can say is it had better survive. The first question then; is it worth it? In testing, having a storm shields on everyone is something that ultimately just seems to be too cost prohibitive. Whilst it does let you go toe-to-toe with real heavy hitters like SM Assault Terminators with ‘hammers and shields, I think that the cost is too high for the larger units. Just think; for the same cost, you can get TEN assault terminators. Doh. Even with 5 TWC, that isn’t a combat you will win. However, it certainly has the scare factor, and will ultimately take a LOT of firepower to drop 5 men. Depending upon what else you plan to field, and the size of game, a unit of TWC with all-shields is a scary sight to behold. However, there are ways around such a unit, and nearly every army has one. That is down to you as a general. For the purposes of this tactica, we will consider the all-shield load just too large a target. So, if all-shields doesn’t work, how about a mix? This would see to mitigate some of the cost, whilst retaining the hitting power. This, then, leads to another argument that I have seen banded around the boards here on the B&C; who gets the Storm shield? Protect the Squad or Protect the Weapon This is another argument that of all of those regarding TWC load-out, isn’t as easy to define. Take this TWC squad: 4TWC: 1 basic, 1 with meltabombs, 1 with bolter, 1 with Thunderhammer. 235pts There are two ways of thinking. Either the special weapon(s) get the SS, to allow them to survive longer in CC, or they are given to the “ablative” wounds of the squad, with the idea that if you do allocate an Ap3/2/1 hit to a shield and the save is failed, it isn’t your special weapon that is taking the damage. Experience has shown that, ultimately, you want your TWC in combat, and that means you want the special weapon bearer to have the save. Seeing as he doesn’t lose an attack, that isn’t a major blow. If you have the points, I would then go so far as to upgrade a second, but that would be all this unit really needs; if an opponent is pouring that much firepower into this unit, then that is part of the job done. That gives us this: 4TWC: 1 basic, 1 with meltabombs, 1 with Storm Shield, 1 with Thunderhammer and Storm Shield 295pts If you want a mixed unit that hits hard, has a lot of attacks, and has a good spread of invulnerable saves without totally blowing the bank, then this is what this tactica recommends. However, it is worth noting this; against most enemy line units, Thunderwolf Cavalry don’t necessarily need an invulnerable save to be effective. In all of the test games with different TWC load-outs, it became painfully obvious that with use of cover, a unit of TWC really is quite solid, and that ultimately equipping everyone with an expensive save is maybe not always the best way to go. Of course, it then is susceptible to combat with enemy Uber-units e.g. Ghazgull and a unit of Meganobs. This, then, is the another revelation of this tactica that might cause some uproar: Thunderwolf Cavalry units are not strong enough to take on the best of most opposing armies alone. Sadly, without a character on Thunderwolf mount, they just haven’t the damage output in relation to cost effectiveness. Assault terminators; Nob Bikers; both ultimately do it better for the same cost. For the Wolves, it then becomes a question of tactics... Sic ‘em, boys – How to Use Thunderwolf Cavalry So far, this tactica has made a lot suggestions about how best to load your TWC. However, we haven’t really talked about any tactics or approaches to actually getting them to work for you on the table. The final part of this article aims to do just that. This is only a smattering of suggestions, as quite frankly, what you pick for your army, your size of game, the terrain, the enemy, the actual real-life opponent.... these are infinitely variable. Hopefully, some of this will be useful! Quick, boy, like we practiced - look like a hairy tree!!!!! You have some expensive cavalry. They are fast, and reasonably durable. You may even have splurged out, investing in one or maybe two storm shields. But now we need to consider something else that is dominant in 40k; Cover. The cover rules are one of the main reasons that people tend to skimp on the invunerable saves for TWC after the cost. Quite simply, with a little careful positioning, you should always be able to achieve some sort of cover for the unit. As cavalry are essentially faster infantry, simply being in area terrain will instantly grant the unit a 4+ cover save. That is pretty good, and against low Ap weaponry, can make all the difference. The only limitation comes in that TWC don't have the move through cover USR which means that quite often, they will be moving slower than 6". Personally, I am happy to stick the unit in cover, but equally I have come to terms with the fact that my own TWC are the slowest in the Imperium. Remember, though, that your fleet roll is unaffected by terrain, and so you should be able to retain a reasonable pace. The other alternative is to hide the TWC; if half or more of a unit is shielded from line of sight by a tank or the enemy has to fire through another unit, then that 4+ cover save is once again yours. This then allows you to use your TWC as an extra worry to your opponent; they will have to divert fire or man-power first at that tank (which might well have its own cover save through smoke launchers) or at the unit, who still have their save. Personally, I use this tactic with a vindicator, which in itself is enough of a distraction that it warrants firepower at it anyway. See "The Target" suggestion in the tactics section later. A Land raider (if you have the points for that investment) can completely sheild the unit if that is what you need, but that is a large investment to shield an already large investment.... Another tactic is to mix a larger unit of TWC around, so that they are both out of line of sight behind the tank, giving them a save, AND giving the vehicle a cover save by being in front of it. I don't know about you, but my TWC are quite large models and so hiding the required 50% of the front facing of a rhino or razorback to give it a cover save isn't that tricky. This is another annoying tactic for your opponent, but one that will help draw in the firepower. This can be doubly helpful in that it allows that scoring unit or other cargo to move up towards an objective in the open with both units gaining a cover save. One more thing; don't be afraid to got to ground with this unit. If things aren't going your way, and your TWC are getting pummelled by high strength, low Ap weaponry, go to ground; get the 3+ cover save. Hopefully, you will have already advanced a sufficient distance that even if only for one turn, your opponent will not be able to apply that firepower elsewhere, and that again should lead to an easier life for the rest of your force. Cover really brings us back around to that issue of cost. This unit is mightily expensive; adding invunerable saves makes it even more! With the careful use of cover, you really can keep those TWC alive for longer. And if they occasional wound gets through? Well, your TWC are T5 and so anything less than strength 10 weaponry won't instant kill you. There is nothing more frustrating for an opponent to have you take a lod of hits, you passing armour and cover saves all over, and when that one wound does get through, you simply smile and say "Ah, I'll take it on the bolter guy, he gets less attacks anyway..." :lol: Thanks to TiguriusX for suggesting this section Common Tactical Applications of TWC: The Hammer The hammer unit of any army is one that rides straight up into the face of its enemy and smashes it with hammer, claw, fist and tooth. As a hammer unit, TWC have a lot of positives; they are fast, they have high strength, rending attacks, the potential for S10, and can take a lot of hits. In this role, you might well consider equipping some or all of the unit with Storm Shields; if this is the role you want for them, then you can’t be afraid to invest. A good comparison unit here is Nob bikers; 500pts gets you a Warlord on bike with power Klaw and 5 bikers with all the trimmings. As noted earlier, this is tough for even 5 kitted-out TWC to beat; however, if you want to have a chance, that’s the way to go. The Shadow Thunderwolves are one of the best counter-attack units in the codex, in that they can happily hide behind a piece of cover/in the cover, or behind a tank or transport, and be used to reach out and squash any roaming elements of the opposing army that are getting too close. A prime example of this is SM Multi-melta attack bikes; a popular means of delivering anti-tank into your lines. TWC can happily act as a deterrent, can usually take any fire this unit has to offer, and squash them in combat. In this role, smaller units are better as they are easier to hide and frustrate your opponent with. Another popular tactic is to leave the TWC in reserve; draw the enemy in, or scare them away simply with the thought that you have a unit that can charge half-way across the table (usually) on the turn it arrives. This can be very useful in pushing your opponent back from objectives or simply scaring them away from your table edge. The Target This is perhaps inherent in the other two tactics for TWC mentioned above, but is the one that I personally have used the most often, and is the reason for my not including a “pimped” cavalry unit in my own competitive lists. Quite simply, opponents know that this unit hits hard and will be in your face soon. However, when faced with that, a landraider that usually contains a solid scoring unit, 6 Long fangs blasting away from cover, a Vindicator and some other armour assets, do you just pump your anti-tank into the TWC and ignore the rest? How do you prioritise? This is a role that TWC can fill better than anyone short of Swiftclaws, but whilst the bikes retain a greater level of survivability, the TWC have greater range and can suffer more damage without losing effectiveness. The unit doesn’t necessarily need even a single shield; use of cover and target saturation for your opponent is usually more than enough to see them across the field. __________________________________________________ At the end of all that, I hope you found it a useful read! Every part of this article is, for better or for worse, based upon my own experiences of TWC on the tabletop. I hope that, if nothing else, you are spurred to take another look at what I think will grow to be one of the most typifying units of the codex to date. Thanks for reading Nightrunner <_< Q&A QUESTION 1 does the special CC weapons meen you dont get rending if you use those.? I have asked previously and had been answered but damn if any of it sunk in. Why get a power weapon when you have rending. Also rending you need a 6 to hit or wound? If you use a special CC weapon, you automatically lose rending in place of that (as noted earlier in the "upgrades" section, this is solely my own interpretation of the current rules until GW releases an FAQ). Normal rending only works on a 6 to wound. Taking a power weapon, combined with your high strength, means that you will be doing mroe damage against marine equivalent targets in CC without having to roll that "lucky 6" to ignore a save. This is particularly useful against plague marines and other tough enemy infantry. QUESTION 2 Most of the people advocating no SS, or FW screen to give them a cover save seem to oversee that SS are especially useful in CC not shooting. Even 5 TW are easy to put partially (2 and a half bases are enough to claim the save) in area terrain, or behind a Rhino wall, no need for a FW screen. And if you spread them enough your opponent won't hit more than 2 with a pie plate. But when you start tackling Bloodcrushers, Nob Bikers, Terminators or worse Walkers who can instakill you, the SS become invaluable. I also recommend full squads for a very important reason: Morale. A squad of 5 wih full wound allocation will bear up to 7 wounds in a single round of shooting before testing; A squad of 4 will test as soon as a TW dies, which is not hard to accomplish for shooty armies. Here is my recommended loadout: 1 BP/CCW, 1 Bolter, 1 MB, 1 SS, 1 TH for a mere :P 315pts HQs, Long Fangs and Troops are very cheap and efficient in the new Codex, so you won't break the bank with a single unit of TW even at 1500 pts. Well, I agree about the importance of SS against certain targets; however, I think there are better ways to deal with these units, and quite honestly, I wouldn't be likely to send my TWC into combat with them, even if they DID have an all SS load-out. For a balanced list, I would agree with the solidity of this as a solid, cost-effective 5-man unit. However, I think that if you are going for long term survivability, you really need to go for more than one shield in a unit; one to be "ablative", and one on the special weapon - here, your 'hammer. I very much approve of your load-out as a survivability upgrade; its interesting that you went the route of "protect the squad" over "protect the weapon". Please note: Emphasis in this post are mine for key points. Nightrunner :nuke: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2223783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightrunner Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 Condensed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2223787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 does the special CC weapons meen you dont get rending if you use those.? I have asked previously and had been answered but damn if any of it sunk in. Why get a power weapon when you have rending. Also rending you need a 6 to hit or wound? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2223789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightrunner Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 Condensed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2223790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Rending is to wound now. I don't think the special weapon versus rending matter is settled. It does specify for Wulfen but not for TWC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2223805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightrunner Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 Rending is to wound now. I don't think the special weapon versus rending matter is settled. It does specify for Wulfen but not for TWC. It is described under the Thunderwolf Mount entry in the codex. I know that isn't exactly the same as the TWC mount, but quite frankly, if that is how the mount is described as wargear, that is how it should most likely be played for the unit, too. Its the same thing that makes me think IC's with TW mount are immune to Instant death from anything below S10. NR <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2223807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I like how you broke things down. That was an entertaining and informative read. For clarity regarding the two different ways to purchase a SS I would redirect the audience's attention in the single SS replacing a CCW section to the unlimited SS replacing the bolt pistol section If you want to expand on the tactica I would suggest explaining the methods and merits of cover saves versus SS Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2223840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athalus Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Excellent job! This is a huge help for me and determining how I will be loading out my TWC. Thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2223880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 It is described under the Thunderwolf Mount entry in the codex. I know that isn't exactly the same as the TWC mount, but quite frankly, if that is how the mount is described as wargear, that is how it should most likely be played for the unit, too. Its the same thing that makes me think IC's with TW mount are immune to Instant death from anything below S10. Currently thought, that's only your interpretation. RAW is that TWC can have Rending Power Fists or Thunderhammers, and wargear given bonuses to T don't help with ID. Maybe put a caveat in your Q&A that these are your interpretations only, and not the Rules as Written. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2224104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightrunner Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 I like how you broke things down. That was an entertaining and informative read. For clarity regarding the two different ways to purchase a SS I would redirect the audience's attention in the single SS replacing a CCW section to the unlimited SS replacing the bolt pistol section If you want to expand on the tactica I would suggest explaining the methods and merits of cover saves versus SS Well, I have edited the main article to include both. Let me know what you think. Currently thought, that's only your interpretation. RAW is that TWC can have Rending Power Fists or Thunderhammers, and wargear given bonuses to T don't help with ID. Maybe put a caveat in your Q&A that these are your interpretations only, and not the Rules as Written. True, I am only going off the INET FAQ and what I can see as common sense. Will edit accordingly, though. Thanks for the post; you have both been accredited accordingly! :D NR :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2224167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillen Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Well, I think it's a whole lot of reading for common sence things. If you want honesty. I have some Cav and so does my friend. He played them in a 2,200 point battle we had. They ate my Ragnar and his Wolf Gaurd but all but one Thunder was let with a wounded Canis. Next turn Bjorn was there and they tied up for 2 turns till the end of the game with no one dieing. He had full shields all the way around. Expensive, but they have the 12 inch charge so they can get into the thick of it quick. Which is what happened to me. Ragnar and crew killed a Wolf Gaurd squad but was charged by the Thunder squad lead by Canis and a WOlf Gaurd battle leader. Ragnar slew 2 Thunders and put a hit on Canis and then bought the farm as he always does for me. I use my Thunders with one shield to make the Thunder hammer better at killing monstour creatures. The rest of the squad tries for rends. Still I do not field them in tournies or competative games. These are only good for fun. They cost too much and usually will not make back their points unless it's a game where everyone has a little bit of silly stuff on the board. Oh yes and screen with wolves. Instead of getting 3 Shields take 10 Wolves. They move the same spead and give you cover saves as well. And unlike 30 point shields they can bite if someone ignores them. And new players wil try and shoot the Thunder Cav first. Which means they will usually get in. For the price of 4 shields you can have 15 wolves running cover and able to contest objectives. Basicly really fast martines with no guns or armor, but with a 12" charge. They screen the Thunder Wolves and that is a huge help. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2224190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamat008 Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Most of the people advocating no SS, or FW screen to give them a cover save seem to oversee that SS are especially useful in CC not shooting. Even 5 TW are easy to put partially (2 and a half bases are enough to claim the save) in area terrain, or behind a Rhino wall, no need for a FW screen. And if you spread them enough your opponent won't hit more than 2 with a pie plate. But when you start tackling Bloodcrushers, Nob Bikers, Terminators or worse Walkers who can instakill you, the SS become invaluable. I also recommend full squads for a very important reason: Morale. A squad of 5 wih full wound allocation will bear up to 7 wounds in a single round of shooting before testing. A squad of 4 will test as soon as a TW dies, which is not hard to accomplish for shooty armies. Here is my recommended loadout: 1 BP/CCW, 1 Bolter, 1 MB, 1 SS, 1 TH for a mere :o 315pts HQs (Rune and Wolf Priests), Long Fangs and Troops are very cheap and efficient in the new Codex, so you won't break the bank with a single unit of TW even at 1500 pts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2224207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightrunner Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 Well, I think it's a whole lot of reading for common sence things. If you want honesty. I have some Cav and so does my friend. He played them in a 2,200 point battle we had. They ate my Ragnar and his Wolf Gaurd but all but one Thunder was let with a wounded Canis. Next turn Bjorn was there and they tied up for 2 turns till the end of the game with no one dieing. He had full shields all the way around. Expensive, but they have the 12 inch charge so they can get into the thick of it quick. Which is what happened to me. Ragnar and crew killed a Wolf Gaurd squad but was charged by the Thunder squad lead by Canis and a WOlf Gaurd battle leader. Ragnar slew 2 Thunders and put a hit on Canis and then bought the farm as he always does for me. I use my Thunders with one shield to make the Thunder hammer better at killing monstour creatures. The rest of the squad tries for rends. Still I do not field them in tournies or competative games. These are only good for fun. They cost too much and usually will not make back their points unless it's a game where everyone has a little bit of silly stuff on the board. Oh yes and screen with wolves. Instead of getting 3 Shields take 10 Wolves. They move the same spead and give you cover saves as well. And unlike 30 point shields they can bite if someone ignores them. And new players wil try and shoot the Thunder Cav first. Which means they will usually get in. For the price of 4 shields you can have 15 wolves running cover and able to contest objectives. Basicly really fast martines with no guns or armor, but with a 12" charge. They screen the Thunder Wolves and that is a huge help. Thanks for the honesty; I should point out, this is meant to be a beginner's guide to TWC. That's what it says in post No.1, and if some of this is basic, then fine. That really is the idea. I did my best to cover everything in the basics concisely. Quite frankly, if I did make it any less, I don't think it would read as well. Now, Quillen, as for the competitiveness of TWC. I have and will continue to make competitive use of my TWC unit, and I think the key to that is not overspending. Like I said, above, the "all shield" unit takes an awful lot of pounding and still keeps coming; however, it is restrictive, points-wise. And there-in lies the trick to using them. :D In terms of Fenrisian Wolves, I thought long and hard about putting a mention in there. However, this is strictly limited to the Thunderwolf Cavalry unit itself; also, that opens the door to Canis, and then IC's...... I accept what you have to say about Fenrisian Wolves, and I would be more than happy to go into more depth on all of these units and how they synergise with cavalry. However, I wanted to test the waters with this first part. @megamat008; thanks for the post!!!! I have included my response to your point in Q&A two. Hope you agree. Thanks for the comments! NR :o Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2224208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 One more factor in the "cover/screen v. SS" debate is the cost. I agree SS are more reliable and still apply in close combat but you are paying a 60% premium for that. If you have a unit of 5 TWC that is 3 additional TWC you could add instead of every unit wielding a SS...6 total wounds for the unit. Unless your opponent is dishing out 6 power weapon type wounds you potentially gain more by adding bodies/wounds/attacks than having a 66% chance of stopping power weapons with invulnerable armor saves. Alternatively...you could use those points elsewhere in your army. Pack of long fangs or a vehicle etc. If your TWC are your main ace in the hole super hammer combat unit then sure...tool them up with SS. If your TWC fill a specific role and you guide them to avoid the problem units then you can make the rest of your army more effective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2224271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Let me first say: nice work! It's easy to read and covers a range of issues with building a TWC unit. However, I would say it's not a complete tactica. I would suggest adding a few things such as units TWC synergize with, as well as how to actually use them in a battle (as opposed to simply how to write a list). staggering speed of TWC that means they can happily stay outside of the magical “Rapid Fire” range of most 40k armies and still sweep into combat next turn. This means that a lot of firepower coming your way will be high strength, and quite possibly low Ap. This, I feel, is a little misleading. Often TWC are going to be in cover prior to the charge, usually reducing their charge range. Also, it's very difficult to maintain an 18" or more distance from everything on the board (26+" if the opponent is in transports). That's a huge radius. Finally, in order to ensure a charge you really need to be closer than 18". If you stay 19" away from everything at all times, the enemy may simply decide to back up some, leaving you out of charge range. I do have a question. Did you do any testing of single TWCs? I would theorize (and this is only theory) that a single TWC with special weapon (frostblade would be my choice) would be pretty nasty vs. small squads (such as combat squads) and likely to have the ability to hide completely behind vehicles in a mech list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2225082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Ok, I'll begin by saying that it's been about 5 months since i've picked up the rulebook. That said, I'm a bit confused by your "protect the unit vs protect the weapon". The special weapon carrier is part of the unit and cannot be singled out in close combat (I thought, again, rusty here)and therefore you can just use wise wound allocation to keep him alive, so long as he's still within 2" of another member of the squad. So I would argue that a single shield in the unit would be sufficient if you really are pining for that 3+ save. I dont, however, think that it's particularly needed. As you said, these guys being base t5, not 4(5), means that they can take a shot from anything less than a rail gun or a walker and keep right on ticking. Essentially, the extra wound with the increased toughness makes it that SS's are less worth the price than on a unit that is squishier, like a termie unit. Wound allocation is far, far more important with a unit like this than any invuln save. I guess it all just comes down to recognizing the strengths and weaknesses of your units. It's like sending scouts at a monstrous creature and expecting them to succeed. dont send TWC at something they will fail at. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2225314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 This, I feel, is a little misleading. Often TWC are going to be in cover prior to the charge, usually reducing their charge range. Also, it's very difficult to maintain an 18" or more distance from everything on the board (26+" if the opponent is in transports). That's a huge radius. Finally, in order to ensure a charge you really need to be closer than 18". If you stay 19" away from everything at all times, the enemy may simply decide to back up some, leaving you out of charge range. I do have a question. Did you do any testing of single TWCs? I would theorize (and this is only theory) that a single TWC with special weapon (frostblade would be my choice) would be pretty nasty vs. small squads (such as combat squads) and likely to have the ability to hide completely behind vehicles in a mech list. Remember, cav= 6" move, "run" move of up to 6", 12" charge because of fleet. that's a 24" potential, not 18". so like he said, it's staggering speed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2225320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightrunner Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 Thanks for the comments gents. Before I go back and edit anything, lets tackle your points. Let me first say: nice work! It's easy to read and covers a range of issues with building a TWC unit. However, I would say it's not a complete tactica. I would suggest adding a few things such as units TWC synergize with, as well as how to actually use them in a battle (as opposed to simply how to write a list). Well, I did consider it, but there are so many ways that you can tie-in TWC, it would have been a lot more than just the unit and I wanted to test the waters first with this article. Also, I feel that mentioning those units that do synergise well requires more than just a passing comment; more in-depth anaylsis of equipment, unit size etc is needed, at least in my mind. Seeing as the response has generally been positive, I think that I'm going to forge ahead and try and tackle the Iron Priest, Canis, Fenrisian Wolves and IC's with mounts. This, I feel, is a little misleading. Often TWC are going to be in cover prior to the charge, usually reducing their charge range. Also, it's very difficult to maintain an 18" or more distance from everything on the board (26+" if the opponent is in transports). That's a huge radius. Finally, in order to ensure a charge you really need to be closer than 18". If you stay 19" away from everything at all times, the enemy may simply decide to back up some, leaving you out of charge range. I think OnlyInDeath beat me to this - Thudnerwolf Cavalry have a 19-24" charge range. Ideally, you should be using that to strike hard and take a minimum of firepower on the way in. I do have a question. Did you do any testing of single TWCs? I would theorize (and this is only theory) that a single TWC with special weapon (frostblade would be my choice) would be pretty nasty vs. small squads (such as combat squads) and likely to have the ability to hide completely behind vehicles in a mech list. I believe I mentioned that: A special mention here for something I messed around with in my trials. In a solo TWC, equipped with a special combat weapon and a storm shield, you have a small, easy to hide and surprisingly fast little unit that can run around, following a transport or tank, either to support an assault or to deter one. The problem with a single rider is that he ultimately only has a 3+ save, and weight of fire will bring him down. As I noted above, I wouldn’t take two TWC as a unit, as they start sucking up points and are too small in size for the impact I want. Not the most cost effective, in my mind and try-outs, but fun nonetheless. As previously noted, a single TWC can be useful against small targets, but ultimately will be taken down and be not much more than a distraction; with a unit of GH's in a Razorback, though, I can see great potential as a small and lethal counterattack "rocket". Ok, I'll begin by saying that it's been about 5 months since i've picked up the rulebook. That said, I'm a bit confused by your "protect the unit vs protect the weapon". The special weapon carrier is part of the unit and cannot be singled out in close combat (I thought, again, rusty here)and therefore you can just use wise wound allocation to keep him alive, so long as he's still within 2" of another member of the squad. So I would argue that a single shield in the unit would be sufficient if you really are pining for that 3+ save. I dont, however, think that it's particularly needed. As you said, these guys being base t5, not 4(5), means that they can take a shot from anything less than a rail gun or a walker and keep right on ticking. Essentially, the extra wound with the increased toughness makes it that SS's are less worth the price than on a unit that is squishier, like a termie unit. Wound allocation is far, far more important with a unit like this than any invuln save. I guess it all just comes down to recognizing the strengths and weaknesses of your units. It's like sending scouts at a monstrous creature and expecting them to succeed. dont send TWC at something they will fail at. Thanks for the post, OnlyInDeath. What I was getting at was, when arming your unit, who do you give the SS to for maximum effectiveness? I have seen discussions here that say you give it to a "random" TWC, leaving the TH bearing marine to use the wound allocation rules to protect him. However, if you DO get bogged down in a protracted combat, say against a Hive tyrant or Daemon Prince, who do you want to have the SS - the regular guy, or the one with the special weapon? For me, every time, I give it to the weapon, as ultimately if I do want that one guy left alive, I want it to be him. Lots of players here seem to advocate the opposite, and I have only found that this leaves the special weapon guy taking wounds and the (comparatively) useless normal guy fending off wounds left and right. Do you think I need to clarify that section a little more? Also, condensed the post into one for ease. NR :nuke: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2225429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athalus Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Looking forward to more talk on unit synergy, keep up the good work. I also agree that you should have a SS on your TH, points willing, and then a second SS to max out your wound allocations. This means that you have a dummy SS save before you have to start using your TH saves, which is good when you are going to be wanting that TH a lot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2225498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 I don't know about the rest of you, but I must have mistreated a box of dice as an infant, because the dice gods hate me. I also inherently want to put the SS on the TH guy, but then I end up putting the nasty shots on him and I fail the save and he dies. All it means is that i've dumped 60 points worth of upgrades down the drain. I put the SS on the redshirt and let him fend off big shots, with two wounds i'm willing to eat a wound on the TH guy just as long as he's alive to do his job. Honestly there's not alot that can vaporize a TWC model in a single shot. Demolisher cannons have a 24 inch range which means they could be counter charged. With a str 10 TH in the following assault phase it might not be a promising trade. If they are spaced well enough you should be able to handle a round of shooting from those. Against a str 10 walker you might see 4 attacks on a charge, but yet again as calv, you should be getting the charge on those guys. That leaves what? Railguns? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2225731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 OnlyInDeath and Nightrunner, I think you misread my post. I am fully aware of how large the potential charge range is. What I was saying was an 18" range was the 6" move and 12" rapid fire range of an opposing unit. I did miss that bit about the single TWC. My feeling (and perhaps I'm the only one) is that a series of posts on how to build a unit does not equal a tactica. That's listbuilding. Not that it's not a very important part of the game, but it's not a complete guide to TWC. I ask for this because I think you would probably have a lot of interesting insights into how to actually use TWC in combat, given the quality of the work you've done already. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2225751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBFlanz Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 Here is an interesting topic that I am unsure about: What base is to be used with the TWC? I want to make some but I am at a loss for their sizes. Canis has a huge wolf and was unsure if that is the reason for the dread sized base. Thanks a lot and had a great time reading your tactica! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2225781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rao Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Here is an interesting topic that I am unsure about: What base is to be used with the TWC? I want to make some but I am at a loss for their sizes. Canis has a huge wolf and was unsure if that is the reason for the dread sized base. Thanks a lot and had a great time reading your tactica! I don't think it specifies base size anywhere for TWC (and chars mounted on TWs, for that matter). My gut feeling is that it should be the size of Canis' base, i.e. a dred base. Yes, Canis rides an especially large TW, but Ghazhgkhull (sp?) is an immense ork in mega armour, and he comes on the same base as a regular meganob. Just my 2c. LR Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2230063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightrunner Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 Thanks to everyone who has commented so far. I’ve decided to go ahead and make a few more comments about how a unit of TWC might work in collaboration with a number of units in the Space Wolves’ armoury. As well as that, a few people have offered a few comments and PMs asking about deeper tactical insights to using the TWC. I hope you enjoy, thanks for reading, and as ever please comment if you feel I’ve got something insanely wrong! ;) Nightrunner :D Thunderwolf Tactics: 102?!? Previously, this tactica looked at a few simple tactics for getting your TWC down on the table and some general ideas for how to run them at the enemy. Hopefully, you’ve found these worked for you! Time to delve a bit deeper... My Wolf Feels Slow In the very first part of this tactica, we talked about the speed of the TWC as one of the principle attributes that makes this unit so worth its points. If you have played a few games with your Thunderwolves, then here is something you might well know. Thunderwolves are very, very slow. “WHAT!?!” I hear you cry. “You said they were fast!” Yes, I did. However, Thunderwolves are deceptively fast. Sad but true. The main problem with this unit is that they move as infantry. Yes, they are cavalry and they charge miles, hitting like a brick on the turn they do; until then, though, you are moving 6” every turn, most likely less if you encounter any sort of terrain, and even then your D6” fleet move isn’t going to always save the day. So what does this mean for you as their controller? So Many foes, Where to Start? The first thing to consider is their target priority. This is key in how your unit of TWC are going to perform. There are three main aspects to this; what you want them to hit, what you don’t want to hit them, and what your opponent doesn’t want to hit them. What you want them to hit is usually the easiest; looking at your opponent’s army, you should be able to weigh up each and every unit against you and see who, on average, should win a combat. Ideally, if everything goes to plan, you hit one of these units. These might well include: 1.Small units/units with poor stats e.g. dev squads; basic guardsmen; gretchin. 2.“Line” squads with little CC punch, such as a singular powerfist/weapon e.g. tac marines etc – anything with little impact in CC (even against 10 tac marines with a PF sarge on average only do 1 or two wounds). 3.Armour; ideally, tanks! S5 likes rear AV10. Job No.1 done! Now, of course, the next thing to consider is what you DON’T want smacking your puppies around the table. Nowadays, nearly every army has something that can do this to your cavalry. This varies depending upon your load-out, but for me, this typically includes the following: 1.“Deathstar” units; things that cost MORE than your TWC, and usually rightfully so e.g. Nob bikers. 2.High WS monstrous creatures, e.g. the avatar; anything that leaves you hitting on WORSE than a 4+ is just not a good target. 3.Units with high durability/tons of PF/PW attacks e.g. Vanilla marine assault terminators. 4.Anything that inflicts Instant Death easily. Note: with the new Tyranid codex on the horizon, I am thinking specifically of anything with 2+ boneswords that will have you testing for instant death on 3D6 against Ld 8. Not great. 5.Tranports; whilst not a killer unit, really, you want to be charging the occupants – not giving them a prime, up-close rapid fire turn because you blitzed their rhino! Try to pop transports with other units first. Long fangs, anyone? Some might be surprised that I haven’t included dreadnoughts or wraithlords in that list. That is because, if I have to, I will often charge a unit like this. Usually, these units have 2 attacks, so there is a 50/50 of losing a TWC. I think this is worth it and usually take it on my “ablative” squad shield carrier, as with a S10 special weapon and the rending attacks, you can usually knock this unit out – sometimes to the shock of an opponent. Finally, and most importantly, there are things that your opponent doesn’t want to get hit. It always amazes me how much opponents get freaked about by the fact I have S10 attacks on a combat unit, which I play on as much as possible, being sure to throw in a little titbit about the “Sheer, horrifying number” of S5 rending attacks that come with. Nice ;) Where to Put That Wolf? With target priority covered, that then brings us onto something key: deployment. This is where this tactica can only suggest, and you the player have to weigh things up. Generally, you need to deploy your Thunderwolf Cavalry somewhere that will allow them to hit with the minimum amount of time, taking the minimum amount of fire on the way. The order in which you deploy - and as such the role of first turn - is key in 5th Edition 40k. If you deploy first, then a lot of this will be guesswork as to where your opponent will put things. This is an advantage; your opponent will usually know that TWC are fast and hit hard. Remember the three keys to target priority? Putting your TWC near a certain board edge/objective/terrain can force your opponent to make and change decisions about where he was going to put his firebase or other units; even on an empty table, you are using points 1 and 3 to your advantage, hopefully pushing units back from prime firing positions or objectives. As well as this, there is point 2; your opponent can be tempted to put his deathstar unit nearby, to counter the TWC advance. In this way, you can help push them back and/or draw them into an area where the rest of your army wants them. If you are deploying second, then it is usually easier to make decisions about a target for your TWC. They can still perform the same role mentioned above – table denial – and this might well be much easier, if your opponent has mis-read the table and left you a prime avenue to advance or to suck in his own units. Terrain is a final, key consideration in deployment. Whilst the cover save is nice, being IN the cover will slow you considerably, as noted earlier; how long might it take you to get through/round that terrain; will the delay be too great? If you are using screening units, then you also need to consider cover for the screen itself, which can really frustrate an opponent, as well as how much they will be slowed in front of the Cavalry. This is particularly important to transports, which can really screw your battle plan if immobilised at the wrong time! Finally, if your Thunderwolf Cavalry ARE the screen, then consider where they will be the biggest lure but still retain some sort of cover to their advance and best of luck to you. May your cover prove dense! ;) Synergy: A Thunderwolf Dilemma One of the biggest problems that you might face in writing a list to include Thunderwolf cavalry is how to go about making them an effective, collaborative part of your army list, so that they reach the enemy intact (or at least, as much as possible!). With this in mind, the following are some short appraisals on a number of units that can directly and effectively support your TWC. Each has a mark out of 5, and has been picked with the idea that they can keep up with the TWC whilst retaining their effectiveness. HQ: Canis Wolfborn Some thought that Canis was a bit of a waste when he first hit, but over time, I think that he has gradually started to show his colours. Of all of the SW characters, I think he offers the best value for points. Whilst tagged on to a unit of TWC, he offers another body for wound allocation, as well as a plethora of wolf-claw attacks. However, closer to the enemy, he gives you two options; option 1 is to break him off in the movement phase and launch him in to a suitably large squad, where he can generate a number of attacks. Remember that with this tactic, he reverts to being an independent character, and so gains the Move Through Cover USR – this can be very useful! Option 2 is simply to use him to ensure that whatever your TWC hit, they will break. Either way, he can be used to offer even more chaos in your opponent’s line and distract fire and attention from both your advancing troops and your TWC unit. Bear in mind that Canis doesn’t have an invulnerable save, so everything that we have said TWC are vulnerable to, he is as well. His other benefit is that, as the Lord of the Wolfkin, he offers the chance for you to take Fenrisian Wolves as Troops and with an initiative of 5 (we will deal with Fenrisian Wolves later). Mark: 4/5. Cost effective, hard hitting, unit and army buff. Oh for an Inv. Save!!!! ELITE: Iron Priest with ThunderWolf mount This guy deserves a special mention as one of the little gems of the codex. With a plethora of S8 and S10 attacks, runic armour and thunder hammer a standard, with a Thunderwolf mount and 4 Cyber Wolves this becomes a great MC and Dreadnought tarpit unit. In terms of TWC synergy, it offers some variety for cheap S10 attacks but is obviously a lot more fragile – one failed save on the ‘priest and the unit is gone. Personally, I would take Canis if given the option, but that is honestly just personal preference. Mark: 4/5 Potentially vulnerable to lots of shots; one failed 2+ save, unit gone. Best for tarpitting (and potentially beating) low Attack, High strength units – Dreadnoughts, Wraithlord etc. TROOPS Rather than go into great detail on the different troops choices and their options, I am going to just say a few quick words here. Thunderwolf cavalry can benefit greatly from masses of GH’s and BC’s advancing closely behind, or even shielding them in front. This, though, becomes about how you build your entire army and your tactics for the entire force. For example, I personally love the versatility of smaller GH packs with a WG in a Razorback; they can shoot and assault, hold objectives and pitch into combat with the TWC. Upgrades like “Mark of the Wulfen” and the “Wolf Standard” only make them better in combat. Equally, they can get out in rapid fire range and hopefully hose down the target with some bolter and plasma fire. For me, they do everything. Using Rhinos or Razorbacks solely to screen seems a waste of the highly versatile and effective cargo; however, a unit of tooled up GH’s is nothing to sneeze at and closely supporting the TWC, can leave your opponent reeling and unsure as to whether to counter-assault a TWC push or not. As well as this, in the cover role, “Smoked” transports can really absorb the high strength, poor Ap firepower that is usually best at stripping wounds off TWC at range. Drop pod units can also be used to block off avenues of advance, with the running TWC in the background serving as an excellent dissuasion from any potential mass assault. Equally, once again, use the DP'ing squad as bait. Not good for their lifespan, but effective. Mark: 5/5. Space Wolves, in our latest codex, are all about the troops; they are some of the best in the game and I feel that using them to support the very expensive cavalry is a good use of their abilities. FAST ATTACK: Fenrisian Wolves This would seem to be the perfect accompaniment to a unit of TWC. Like their “big brothers”, they are cavalry, so can keep up, and are cheap, with a full unit of 15 (without cyber wolf) only costing 120pts. Not too shabby! However, for me, the biggest stopping point is their amazing, 6+ armour save and Ld 5 I love this unit, and the imagery of them charging forwards on the battlefield. However, a full unit of 15 will, on average, only inflict 3-4 casualties on a T4, 3+save enemy. Will 15 actually reach the enemy? Probably not. Of course, there is the option of the previously mentioned Lord of the Wolfkin, Mr C.Wolfborn. Granting all FW’s initiative 5 in combat is a BIG boost, and combined with being able to use his Ld within 12” means that your Fenrisian wolf screen can take some hits, most likely keep on running and even hit something reasonably hard! The other option is a character on Thunderwolf, to give them a massive LD boost and “And They Shall Know No Fear (ATSKNF)” so that they stay in the fight longer. I have found fenrisian wolves most effective in hitting small units, or taking out transports or tanks. If you are really lucky, they are one of the few units we have that are capable of surrounding and taking out a transport and its contents. However, they will need cover even in a screening role for your Thunderwolves, one of the most commonly mentioned tactics for them on this (and many) forums. With Canis and some TWC, that is already a lot of points, and in smaller games, is a little cost-prohibitive. One final point; in a close combat against a tough unit, I would not advocate adding a FW charge to the TWC. The reason for this is that your opponent can quickly rack up the kills, even beating you, if they can kill a large number of wolves, and with LD8 base, this can be bad news. Marks: 3/5. Fast, Cheap, but not great at taking hits on their own. Good at screening TWC. Average at everything else without even more investment. FAST ATTACK: Skyclaws Skyclaws are an interesting choice to accompany TWC. The main problem that they have is that, often, you might find that a full unit is out-distancing the cavalry if the enemy is backing off and/or far away. It is a tough job to balance, but their frailty to shooting is very similar to TWC and so the two units share the love of cover and shielding units like Rhinos and Razorbacks. Personally, not a favourite, as like FW’s before them, they usually need upgrading with some sort of HQ option to really buff them appropriately (until the WG pack leader option becomes FAQ’d, IMHO). Mark: 2/5. With TWC, they are mis-matched, not survivable, require lots of points. Not great. FAST ATTACK: Swiftclaws Compared to their jump-pack brothers, this is a unit that I have found to be far more effective. There are two reasons for this; one is their speed, the other, their survivability. Both of these are exceptional in providing another target that isn’t the TWC, but that can take some of the heat. Since the last codex, BC bikers (as they effectively are!!!) have received a big boost – cheaper, with the addition of a CCW and BP as standard meaning that they are actually able to last a little in a protracted combat. However, they are also a solid shooting unit within 12”; twin-linked BS3 is actually better than BS4! They have high toughness, and boosting gives them a solid save. Consider that, for 268pts, you could get 5bikes+attack bike with MM, a power weapon, a meltagun, led by a WG with Combi-melta and ‘fist. This unit can take some damage, can fight in CC, has firepower and speed, anti-tank – what’s not to love bar the cost! For the same cost (or a little more), you can get ANOTHER solid unit of TWC. However, on the tabletop, the bikes offer something slightly different, especially with that multi-melta - another prime example of scaring an opponent with something that isn’t really that threatening. Mark: 3/5. Fast, boost gives TWC cover, another fast, hard-hitting target – COST is their big struggling point, and they cannot take the CC hits like TWC. But who can? HEAVY SUPPORT: Vindicator A special mention here for my favourite tank; no bias intended! Why is this a good tank for TWC? Well, it has an eerily similar 24” range; it would, even without the cavalry, attract a lot of firepower. Target priority is the key here; it is a big target that your opponent just can’t ignore. Personally, my Vindicator never leaves home without a siege shield – moving 12” through terrain with TWC in tow, with Smoke launchers if needed, means that you can definitely ensure that whatever else is advancing has a fair chance of getting there. Mark: 5/5. Its a great tank on its own – against a competent opponent, you would be advancing anyway. Whey not use it to shield/distract from TWC? ______________________________________________________________ Well, I hope some of that was useful. The final part of this tactica will look at IC’s, and the different builds that come with it. That, though, is a matter for another post! Thanks for reading, and ultimately, I hope it was useful. As ever, please comment away! ;) Nightrunner ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/187941-unit-tactica-thunderwolf-cavalry/#findComment-2231044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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