First Battle VS Guard Air Cav

[IronWinds]

Read on, it turns into an interesting battle turn 3+. Basically I've never fought an all skimmer guard army, and thought it would be hard to fight. I personally believed it was the nastiest army one could field. I've had no problems with orks, guard gun lines, or space puppies but I always thought a complete flying list with 'that' much firepower would be insane to go up against. And middle of round 3 I was ready to pack my bags. Had 5 models on the table....

 

My list:

DP-wings, MoT, warptime

 

4 terminators, all combi meltas

 

4 rhino squads, 2 w/ flamers & champ w/ PW, 2 w/ meltas & champ w/ PF.

 

3squads of 2 obliterators. Normally don't take that many, but felt I needed some more anti tank for this battle.

 

 

Enemy list

 

Primaris psyker

5 storm troopers 2 meltas

 

60 veterans, 6 squads, 2 were melta heavy, other 4 were flamer heavy

 

6 of the normal flyers. All had lascannons except maybe 1. 2 had rocket pods.

 

3 of the gunships, all lascannons.

 

Left all my terminators and oblits in reserve, I wanted to make sure they got to fire off at least 1 shot before getting shot.

 

Turn 1: He goes first. All the gunships fire on one rhino... it dies of course, 9 twin linked lascannons! 3 of the Valkries open fire on my other rhino with lascannons... it dies. The remaining 3 flyers drop two missiles(from the same flyer), unload rocket pods, a las and multilaser on my exposed troops. Whole squad gone.

My turn I just move as much as I can foward and pop smoke on my 2 rhinos.

 

Turn 2: Gunships unload on rhino, smoke does nothing against 9 lascannons, another rhino gone. The 6 other flyers fire on my squad that is hiking across the field, 2 missiles, 2 rocket pods, lots of las= no more marines. My turn: I DS 2 oblits close to the gunships, and have my remaining rhino run up near a gunship(they were near the middle of field) marines pop out. The oblits killed one, marines w/ meltas killed one. One was empty, the other had the storm troopers+psyker, it exploded but only killed one storm trooper. DP is parked behind the rhino that is parked sideways(the one the marines got out of).

 

Turn 3: Vets start pooring out of the 3 closest valkyries towards my marines and oblits. Remaining gunship and 3 of the valks wipes out the 2 obliterators. 30 vets(combination of flamers and meltas)+storm troopers+psyker all unload into my marines. They disapear. The other 3 valks unload into my other squad of marines knocking them down to 4 guys.

 

This is when I about threw in the towel. I have 4 marines and a DP on the table(w/ oblits and termintors in reserve, but still only 4 of each) vs 60 vets, a primaris psyker, storm troopers, a gunship, and 6 valkyries... basically his whole army. Did not look good.

 

When my turn swings around all my reserves come in(thank the gods). Luckily I had the 1 squad(4 guys) run the turn before, so they were within 13-15" of the 3 valks that were still full. So DS terminators and oblits 6" out(barely touching back of base), then I put all new terminators and oblits touching front of their bases. End result: got oblits and terminators 'just' within 6" of valks. Other 2 oblits DS in a spot where they have perfect flamer template angle on storm troopers. I destroy 2 valks, but they don't explode, guys pile out, oblits destroy storm troopers but the primaris survives. Dp finaaly gets in combat, charges 2 squads at once. Kills 4 guys, takes one wound, they don't run.

 

 

Turn 4: The rest of the vets get out, primaris joins a squad. They unload on oblits, killing one with a melta. Other is fine. Gunship unloads on obliterators, kills 1. 3 valks didn't have very good shots because DP was in assault right in front of them, so they finished off my rhino... I guess they didn't want to waste those missiles when I would get cover saves. Other valk fired lascannon at oblits, they are fine. Gunline of guard with flamers unload on oblits and termies. I have never rolled so many 2+s in my life :nuke: . They are all fine. End of his turn, DP kills 3 more guard, no wounds to him. Both squads roll 6s for Ld(which -3 from combat means they fail). DP rolls a 1 for his sweeping advance. They both roll 3s... so he catches. 2 squads disapear!!!

 

My turn: Oblits & marines move into perfect positions for flamers, and unload. Guard disapear in waves. Terminators unload bolters, those guard run but are above half str. 1 oblit charges a squad containing primaris, sucker punches the primaris in the face... no more psyker, and guard do nothing. DP kills another flyer, the explosion hits some of the guard in hth with the oblit, other marines and oblit had nothing to assault as their targets were burnt.

 

Turn 5: His guard that were running regroup, and unload flamers/lasguns on my terminators. I make all the saves <_< . Gunship shoots my DP... MoT saved his life. Other valkyries unload everything onto 1 oblit.... because the marines were close enough any templates would hit them to. Marines all die, one template scatters and hits my oblit and his guard in hth.... guard die except one, oblit doesn't feel anything. Other oblit finaly succumbs to a lascannon. In hth oblit finishes off remaining guardsmen.

 

My turn: Terminators shoot guard again. Oblit moves and finishes off the gun ship with his melta. Termatinors charge... guard die. DP manages to touch '2' valkyries.... kills both at the same time.

 

The other player realises his 1 valkyrie could fly across the board to get away, but even then it couldn't kill 4 terminators, 1 oblit, and a DP in one or two turns so he conceeds.

 

Looking back he still could of won. Turn 4 or 5 he could of had 3 valkyries and gunship could fly 24" away to get away from the DP, but I guess he thought his shooting would be more effective. Good thing it wasn't an objective mission, he could of finished off my troops round 3 and then just flew away and picked me off.

 

 

So 4 marines, 4 oblits, 4 terminators, and a demon prince take on about 1600pts by themselves and win :lol: .

 

Thoughts, helpful advise for future battles with air guard when I don't make all my 2+svs since he could of just flown behind me as soon as I got to him?

 

Bigger question, what to do when its a bigger table. I lucked out and it was a 4x4 so he got cramped quick(those flyers are so big), but there are 6x4 and 8x4 tables where I play.

[Atheist]

Great job man !

 

Well this is supposed to be the great weekness of the I.G. , the close combat .

 

But , as you said , it could easily go the other way .

 

Still , let us celebrate a great victory !

 

For the glory of Chaos !

[minigun762]

Great game and the take home message for everyone is never give up, you can always pull a win out of somewhere (or atleast a draw).

 

I don't know what else I would have done differently. You're using a solid enough list but because Chaos relies on being up close, you have to weather a few turns of intense firepower before you can make him pay. Had you gone first, you could have atleast moved and popped smoke which would have helped some.

 

My worry is that alot of IG lists will be using the Master of whatever it is that screws your reserve rolls, so relying on Terminators and DS Oblits can be a pain. Against Air Cav IG, I think we really need to consider Combi-Predators or Autocannon Havocks and just hope to knock them out of the air before they can do too much damage, but even that is a gamble. Since they're pumping Lascannon shots into you, my gut instinct is to try and stay away from Obliterators but thats hard to do in an all-comers list.

[Corpse.]

Fast vehicles can only move 18" in 5th edition.

 

Looks good, you did well.

[Vissah]

I had a same kind of battle last week against Mechdar.

He destroyed two of my squads with luck and I ended up with 10 Marines,some Termies and two Oblits :D and the only thing he had left were two Waveserpents, 6 Dire Avengers and 4 Rangers.

I still lost 2-1 in objectives but it was a great game and never give up is my motto now :D

Ofcourse I still lost but it could have gone the same way your game did.

 

Good read and a nice win :D

[Kythnos]

Fast vehicles can only move 18" in 5th edition.

 

Fast skimmers can move 24".

[IronWinds]

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

My worry is that alot of IG lists will be using the Master of whatever it is that screws your reserve rolls, so relying on Terminators and DS Oblits can be a pain.

 

Yes that would have been a pain. Does that ability work when he is in a transport.... I know orders don't, but I don't know about that.

 

 

It was an odd game for me because normally my marines do all the work, and in this game my terminators, oblits, and DP did all the work.

 

 

Combi preds and autocannon havoks might have helped, but 9 TL las is going to kill a predator or at least really screw it up, and I don't see the havoks living to long. But... both of those would have drawn fire away from my rhinos so more marines would have lived. Normally I take things 'just' to draw fire away from my rhinos... like defilers or vindicators, but last few games have been against other chaos armies, deathwing, orks, and space puppies.... None of which I'm to worried about shooting so I've been DSing the oblits a lot and they have killed a lot of terminators and Land Raiders because of it. Guess I might have to incorporate some decoy units back into my army.

[minigun762]

Yes that would have been a pain. Does that ability work when he is in a transport.... I know orders don't, but I don't know about that.

It just says "while he is alive" so I would take it that hiding in a Chimera = still alive = power still in effect. Oh and its the Officer of the Fleet. AND he makes you reroll your Outflanking table side results. Pretty awesome for 30 points. :)

 

Combi preds and autocannon havoks might have helped, but 9 TL las is going to kill a predator or at least really screw it up, and I don't see the havoks living to long. But... both of those would have drawn fire away from my rhinos so more marines would have lived. Normally I take things 'just' to draw fire away from my rhinos... like defilers or vindicators, but last few games have been against other chaos armies, deathwing, orks, and space puppies.... None of which I'm to worried about shooting so I've been DSing the oblits a lot and they have killed a lot of terminators and Land Raiders because of it. Guess I might have to incorporate some decoy units back into my army.

 

And thats the problem. Its a big gamble if you try to out shoot his Vendettas. If you don't get first turn, you're going to see alot of firepower dumped on your squads and tanks.

Vs a Predator, 9 TL Lascannons = 3.4 glances or penetrating hits so its almost sure you'll be stunned

Vs a Havock squad in cover = 2.8 dead Marines so you will still be a full heavy weapon strength, of course this doesn't factor in Rocket Pod dakka that Valks can add.

 

You can try bunkering up in DP Land Raiders and trying to engage in a shooting war with him. AV14 will stand up to the Lascannons fairly well and you don't have to be worried about being stunned. However 90% of the time those Valks/Vend are packing Melta Vets which would LOVE to have a few big Land Raider targets to fry.

 

If I had to build an army just to kill Air Cav, the best I can come up with would be something like this

(2k points)

2 DPs w/ Wings, Mark of Tzeentch, Warptime

3 x Termicide

3 squads of CSMs (mix of dual Flamers and dual Melta), Power Fist, Rhino

2-3 squads of Havocks (mix of AC and ML) or 3 Combi-Predators

[Atheist]

Yes that would have been a pain. Does that ability work when he is in a transport.... I know orders don't, but I don't know about that.

It just says "while he is alive" so I would take it that hiding in a Chimera = still alive = power still in effect. Oh and its the Officer of the Fleet. AND he makes you reroll your Outflanking table side results. Pretty awesome for 30 points. :)

 

I would take it a step further : even if in reserves his abilities take effect .

 

Would you agree ?

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

You are correct.