Hidden Wolf Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 i have to say this the amount of army lists that i have read that contain 1 or 2 SC i am getting annoyed just because of the simpl fact that i dont think there worth it i tried and didnt like them i prefer a blanced list not hundreds of points in one modle but i am a IG player as well so that might be something Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc99 Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 I'm no fan of having to choose special characters to get army traits (Salamaders for instance) as I much prefer making my own background, etc, for my characters. I don't mind adding a special character every now and then, but I do feel that to get the best skills, traits, and abilities you are basically forced to purchase special characters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2226441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geass Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 I like special characters,my friends are very scared of them because they kill so much of their stuff in CC <_< I perfer to have alot of special characters in a list. -Geass Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2226448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Runner Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 I can't honestly say I don't like using special characters, for the simple fact that they are in the fluff and they are fun (albeit expensive). But I grew up playing historical wargaming, and my perspective is focus on the troops rather than the characters. Not to say characters are not important for morale, or that great generals did not affect in part the outcome of battle. Don't forget that an inspiring character can make his troops do miracles. Overall though, with the game mechanics of 40k, I prefer to go for the less is more philosophy and try to use special characters only in campaigns where their presence makes more sense, rather than using them in one-off games just for the sake of using their abilities. With respect to using special characters to get army traits. It seems like laziness to me. I'd rather see a codex called 'First Founding Chapters' for instance detailing the divergent characteristics of the Salamanders, Imperial Fists, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, White Scars and their successor chapters. Kind of like the Index Astartes Series. I think GW took the easy way out in this edition in this respect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2226459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 I love Njal Stormcaller and Bjorn the Fell-handed (specially since Bjorn is the only way to field four dreads) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2226461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenger Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Ive used Ragnar and Bjorn with success. Ragnars granted d3 charge bonus is fun as well as the granting Furious charge is devastating, especialy with some frost weapons. Bjorn with 3 dreads on the field is fun, they dont know what to kill, prioritys get screwed up when pods or a wall of Dreads aproaches. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2226462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 i have to say this the amount of army lists that i have read that contain 1 or 2 SC i am getting annoyed just because of the simpl fact that i dont think there worth it i tried and didnt like them i prefer a blanced list not hundreds of points in one modle but i am a IG player as well so that might be something Lol, you also need to work on Grammar. SW SCs are all finesse weapons, save Ragnar... who is just a Hammer *but what do you expect from the title of allslayer*. So if you dont like them, dont take them... but they arent bad for their points, and after 1500pts one of them isnt really unbalancing, at least no more so than say taking a landraider. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2226467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 If I could I would take an army of SC. I love them, But then I love the hero hammer aspect of the SW. Its why I have always played them. I dont care I fI win or lose as long As I get my Hero;s into cc and do some damage worthy of Legend Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2226472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastrchief33 Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 I remember playing when Libbys were almost mandatory for SM lists are were nigh unstoppable, and when characters like Ragnar Blackmane could take over games. There are few HQ choices, and really no special characters that are like that anymore. Thats also because of changes to the ruleset though as well. I do like some of the SW special characters, but I still don't really look to take them much. I've probably fielded Grimnar the most, but more out of neccessity to take WG units as troops than anything else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2226562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Yes, another "to each their own" type of discussion. The codex makes it easy to take them or not. I can see playing many, none, or just one. What I DO like is the flexibility. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2226582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Nearly all of them are good value. And unlike the Space Marines, you do not HAVE to take one to build an effective list. I really believe the Space Wolves dex is one of the most balanced released as nearly everything is on a 'take it or leave it' basis. There are no useless entries and no Essential entries outside of the Troops section. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2226651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdeptusDavidus Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Because I am using a DIY Chapter with the Space Wolves list, I am very, very leary of using any of the named characters. The one exception I might make is using a counts-as Ulrik, simply because his rules are a remarkably close fit for the signature character of my DIY (who I was considering running as a counts-as Chaplain when I was looking at using C:SM). If I was playing the Space Wolves themselves, I don't think I'd have any real compunctions about using any of the named characters - though I'd probably give several of them a miss, since most of them cost a GH Pack or so, and I do love my troops. What I'd really like to see would be the ability to cobble together the special rules from various ICs onto standard HQ characters. For pricing, I think my rough guideline would be that you could build up, say, a Wolf Lord to be identical to Ragnar, but he'd cost a little more than using the named character. This would be the price of flexibility, as you could also tool that same Wolf Lord up with, say, Insane Bravado and Eternal Warrior, or some other unique combination. Balancing that would be all but impossible, I'm sure, and probably has at least a little bit to do with why it wasn't done that way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2226774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 That's what Sagas are for. It is the only codex with that system in place. Be thankful for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2226826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdeptusDavidus Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 That's what Sagas are for. It is the only codex with that system in place. Be thankful for it. Oh, I know, and please don't think I'm not grateful for it. :cuss One of the number-one reasons I'm using the Space Wolves 'dex is the flexibility and customizability that Sagas (among many, many other things) offer. Still, I'd like to see some of the character rules made available for purchase. This flaw is much more glaring in C:SM than C:SW, but I feel like it would improve the "feel" of an army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2226871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Well, with the Chaos Space Marine dex 3.5 Edition it worked pretty well. You didn't just see one predominant boring build like you do with current Daemon Princes. I personally would like to see veteran skills and equipment available, but GW have made a conscious move away from that, rather than further towards it. So it is extremely unlikely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2226888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdeptusDavidus Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Well, with the Chaos Space Marine dex 3.5 Edition it worked pretty well. You didn't just see one predominant boring build like you do with current Daemon Princes. I personally would like to see veteran skills and equipment available, but GW have made a conscious move away from that, rather than further towards it. So it is extremely unlikely. I very nearly went with the Chaos Codex until a friend pointed out that the one I was reading was the previous, not the current, codex. I was utterly crushed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2226904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 Well, with the Chaos Space Marine dex 3.5 Edition it worked pretty well. You didn't just see one predominant boring build like you do with current Daemon Princes. I personally would like to see veteran skills and equipment available, but GW have made a conscious move away from that, rather than further towards it. So it is extremely unlikely. I very nearly went with the Chaos Codex until a friend pointed out that the one I was reading was the previous, not the current, codex. I was utterly crushed. Like alot of the old chaos players, as Im sure youve found out. What I want to know is why chapter tactics isnt a priced option for SM commanders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2227097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Runner Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 What I want to know is why chapter tactics isnt a priced option for SM commanders. I agree. This would have been a much more viable and flexible approach for Space Marine forces, rather than having to buy a SC just to play the chapter tactics of your favourite first founding chapter (or 2nd, or DIY etc). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2227413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 It was a gimmick that they tried out. You know how the studio is. They come up with random ideas and stick them out there, then change their minds a year later. Chapter Traits was way better than the current system. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2227569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rao Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Chapter Traits was way better than the current system. You think so? I was always struggling to make any kind of build with those traits that resembled the Chapter I was trying to field, White Scars being the case in point. Korsarro Khan embodies the list I think of as White Scars so much better. I actually think taking the SCs from C:SM is a very simple and elegant solution to a complex problem of fielding a Chapter that deviates form the standard Codex Astartes. (By the by, with the current plethora of drop pods pratically any list can resemble the White Scars, but that's another matter.) To get back to the original post, I've always approached SCs as a bit of a gimmick, certainly not something I'll base my normal army build around. The new SW dex embodies that completely. Furthermore, we have a house rule where we always announce well before the battle that we are fielding something completely different, like a bad ass SC, just so our opponents aren't completely thrown off. It makes for a more gentlemanly and more enjoyable game. But that's just us. LR Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2227727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 If the 'Chapter Tactics' part of Khan's abilities were simply part of the Chapter Traits then it would be much better imo. Being forced to take one character to build an army in one way is a bit redundant. And the most popular SCs don't even alter the FoC they just give you random bonuses which aren't entirely justified like mastercrafting on things that burn and hammer, or fleet of foot for no reason. Chapter Traits was a better system, but the traits themselves needed tweaking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2227730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rao Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Fair point, not all SCs now actually alter the FOC. Some bonuses of the new SCs are more justifiable than others. Giving everything Fleet is kinda strange, whereas giving the Salamanders TL meltas and flamers and MC hammers is completely in line with their warsmith background (albeit a bit lame in terms of applied background, and actually so beardy it's now almost a no-brainer when it comes to building a shooty armu, certainly when assaulting in Planet Strike). The new SC system isn't perfect at all, and some chars suck or are too imba. Korsarro and Lysander are not, and are quite evocative of their Chapters, however, I think. The Chapter Traits needed a complete overhaul, not just a simpel tweak, imo. But actually tweaking that can be a bitch. I'm sure many of us have tried (and failed). What we have now is slightly better, but nowhere near what it could have been. It's a sad fact that GW hasn't really been able to nail it yet, especially seeing that the Marines are their poster boys/hobby horse/cash cow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2227740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 i havent played a game above 1000 pts with Njal Stormcaller...he is too awesome. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2227747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReyRex Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I'm all about balanced lists. When I make a list I really don't care a lick about fluff, so I take HQs with a purpose. This was until I tried Ulrik. This dude kicks a$$. Ulrik made taking out a WraithGuard wall enjoyable. At his points cost he really is worth it, I tend to be about quantity not quality. Points and ability wise he is very worth it. I have been using him in 2K games, I plan to keep him in there in my 'ard Boyz list as well. ReyRex Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2227828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewi Sant Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 i have to say this the amount of army lists that i have read that contain 1 or 2 SC i am getting annoyed just because of the simpl fact that i dont think there worth it i tried and didnt like them i prefer a blanced list not hundreds of points in one modle but i am a IG player as well so that might be something Fair enough, just don't spend any points on them then. Problem solved :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188134-sw-specil-chars/#findComment-2227875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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