2x Melta Troop squads

[Seahawk]

I stick combi-meltas on my rhinos, giving me room to take the flamer/plasma as secondary weapons in the squad.

[RedDeath]

Whether rapid firing or shooting then charging, I find the meltas are just a complete necessity. Those two extra S8 AP1 shots are nice to have against Marines, and against vehicles are fantastic. A CSM squad with 10 guys, two meltas, a fist and a rhino won't miss a flamer because they can pretty much do it all. 16 rapid firing bolters and 2 melta shots out of a rhino will put the hurt on boyz, guard or 'stealers, or two melta shots and 3 charging power fist attacks will probably take out a Carnifex, even a Wraithlord if you're lucky, in a turn or two, or make a complete mess of vehicles.

 

2x melta, coupled with the fist, just makes the squad far too flexible to give up imo.

[Cale]

I get what you're saying, Minigun, but no--I don't think that our mostly anti-infantry squads should generally stay more anti-infantry focused. This works for some armies, but I don't think it works well for Chaos. Chaos should be fielding lots of troops--a significant majority of the army's points should be sunk into them--and those troops need to be able to do everything. Luckily, it's easy to make them able to do anything--but that requires giving them Meltaguns.

 

The Meltaguns only marginally decrease their ability to do anti-infantry work. Most of their power there comes from their strength in close combat anyway.

 

Melta-guns on troop squads are critical to success with Chaos Marines, and none of the other options can really replace what they bring to the table. They make Chaos Marines into highly effective generalists instead of focused anti-infantry units, that lets you take a really troop-heavy army, and that is what makes Chaos Marines good.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

How about a melta, flamer, and combi melta? I know i rarely get to fire my meltas at more than 1 vehicle per game, so the combi isn't a waste. And then you get the flamer for stronger anti infantry.

[chillin]

How about a melta, flamer, and combi melta? I know i rarely get to fire my meltas at more than 1 vehicle per game, so the combi isn't a waste. And then you get the flamer for stronger anti infantry.

 

That wouldn't be a bad idea. I have put a combiflamer in a dual melta squad before, so I can have melty goodness and a flamer when the oppertunity presents itself.

[the jeske]

but against eldar or tau you will want to shot meltas more then once per game . and as case said csm/pms dont really need much help to deal with horde . also while combi weapons arent overcosted, but when you buy 3 or 4 means you either scratch termicid [and end up with odd 95 points left over] or have to play with 3 oblits. the chaos dex builds are too strickt on points there just isnt enough room to buy extra stuff. and when more points are played it is still better to play 2 full melta and 1 full plasma unit [and maybe combi flamers , but again this is a very win more upgrade].

[Seahawk]

Considering termicide doesn't work around here, no loss and plenty of gain! :jaw:

[minigun762]

How about a melta, flamer, and combi melta? I know i rarely get to fire my meltas at more than 1 vehicle per game, so the combi isn't a waste. And then you get the flamer for stronger anti infantry.

 

I normally feel comfortable with a single Meltagun in my squads. I mean it is backed up by a Power Fist and squad full of Kraks.

Adding a Combi-Melta for a 2nd shot isn't bad idea but I don't know if I'd consider it a standard upgrade.

Of course if you don't use Termicide or other Melta spamming units, it might make more sense, but by that logic it might make the most sense to take dual Meltaguns and a Combi-Melta to insure that your target gets fried.

[Atheist]

Lately I am considering a CSMarine Heavy list ( no havocs ) and I had the following idea :

 

To give each of my troops a heavy weapon ( preferably a 10 point one ) then give them a flamer/ melta and a combi-melta .. We're talking about 250-255pts per troop .

 

Could easily include 5 in a 1750 list , and still have about 475-485 pts to fill in an HQ and perhaps some oblits/ termicides .

 

What do you think of this ? It's enough melta to go around for everybody , plus some tougher to kill long range antitank/antiMC potential .

 

If you think it's viable , would you prefer lascannons for the troops instead of an Autocannon/Missile Launcher ?

[minigun762]

Lately I am considering a CSMarine Heavy list ( no havocs ) and I had the following idea :

 

To give each of my troops a heavy weapon ( preferably a 10 point one ) then give them a flamer/ melta and a combi-melta .. We're talking about 250-255pts per troop .

 

Could easily include 5 in a 1750 list , and still have about 475-485 pts to fill in an HQ and perhaps some oblits/ termicides .

 

What do you think of this ? It's enough melta to go around for everybody , plus some tougher to kill long range antitank/antiMC potential .

 

If you think it's viable , would you prefer lascannons for the troops instead of an Autocannon/Missile Launcher ?

 

It basically turns them into Codex Marines. I would ask yourself if you'd get the same success playing Codex Marines as you would playing Chaos Marines through using that Heavy weapon.

 

The big thing I can see being useful for having 5-6 extra long range weapons is against Eldar/Air Cav IG where you might not be able to get within 12" of the target.

[the jeske]

Considering termicide doesn't work around here, no loss and plenty of gain! :D

 

ok. am lost here . are there some sort of special rule for chaos termis that they scater extra d6" or does everyone play with an inq +mystic or rune priest+inq+mystic ? still tau or eldar [or any other non imperial army] doesnt have those .

[Atheist]

It basically turns them into Codex Marines. I would ask yourself if you'd get the same success playing Codex Marines as you would playing Chaos Marines through using that Heavy weapon.

 

The big thing I can see being useful for having 5-6 extra long range weapons is against Eldar/Air Cav IG where you might not be able to get within 12" of the target.

 

This is the whole point of a list like that .

 

To still have some long range high(-ish) S shots when playing against a very mobile low AV force , while at the same time fielding enough "Vanilla"CSMarines to take on almost anything ( in my calculations I have included a fist for each troop ) .

 

Perhaps this list would be better complemented with 300 pts of obliterators ( , who may deep strike too)?

 

I understand that it's quite some way away from the traditional "Vanilla" CSM role/configuration and do not claim that this is a great win-all thing , but it's an idea . You still have ( and will use ) their greater cc potential , which the Loyalists lack . I have tried to retain partly some of the two specials potential through the use of the combi-meltas .

 

Plus it would seem appropriate that IW troops make use of heavy weapons ( especially if you'd pay the 50 more points to field melta - lascannon troops ).

 

Dunno , haven't tried it . If you think it will fail miserably , be open about it , I won't mind . :D

[minigun762]

This is the whole point of a list like that .

 

To still have some long range high(-ish) S shots when playing against a very mobile low AV force , while at the same time fielding enough "Vanilla"CSMarines to take on almost anything ( in my calculations I have included a fist for each troop ) .

 

Perhaps this list would be better complemented with 300 pts of obliterators ( , who may deep strike too)?

 

I understand that it's quite some way away from the traditional "Vanilla" CSM role/configuration and do not claim that this is a great win-all thing , but it's an idea . You still have ( and will use ) their greater cc potential , which the Loyalists lack . I have tried to retain partly some of the two specials potential through the use of the combi-meltas .

 

Plus it would seem appropriate that IW troops make use of heavy weapons ( especially if you'd pay the 50 more points to field melta - lascannon troops ).

 

Dunno , haven't tried it . If you think it will fail miserably , be open about it , I won't mind . :D

 

I think it takes the idea too far to do it with 5+ squads.

I normally take 1 dual Plasma squad for every Flamer/Melta squad in my army and I could possibly see the logic of swapping out one of those Plasma for an Autocannon/Missile. It extends your threat range to 48" for that squad and the Autocannon/Missile is flexible enough that you should find a valid target starting from 1 turn.

For me, I know that I have a hard time keeping a squad mobile if I give them a Heavy Weapon, I'm just going to camp them somewhere and not end up moving them around. Thats ok for 1-2 squads but for all of your squads I think its too much of a handicap.

[Atheist]

Well I told five so as to have a minimum impact on the game , as I do not think that 1 or 2 would make any difference .

 

I wouldn't propose such things if I felt I could use autocannon drednoughts ( if only they had the old fire frenzy rule ) .

 

Really .

 

Also , I can't say that I find 2-3 5man RAC terminator squads particularly appealing , due to the 36"range and points cost .

 

Oh nevermind , here I go again trying to make my codex play in a way that is not intended .

 

It's just that I used to be able to play this way , that's all .

 

It's a passing thing , nevermind .

[Seahawk]

ok. am lost here . are there some sort of special rule for chaos termis that they scater extra d6" or does everyone play with an inq +mystic or rune priest+inq+mystic ? still tau or eldar [or any other non imperial army] doesnt have those .

None of that. Only once out of 11 games have I seen termicide actually work (the one I described in the termicide thread). The other 10 they've scattered, been shot or mishapped and died, been on target but missed, hit the vehicle but not penetrated, penetrated but not killed, been assaulted and killed, etc. People just either know how to counter it without =][= help or they've just been fail-sauce.

 

I normally take 1 dual Plasma squad for every Flamer/Melta squad in my army and I could possibly see the logic of swapping out one of those Plasma for an Autocannon/Missile.

Ditto, though I much prefer the plasma because of the mobility and rapid-fire AP2 sweetness. So many monstrous creatures and terminators to mow down...

[chillin]

Only once out of 11 games have I seen termicide actually work . The other 10 they've scattered, been shot or mishapped and died, been on target but missed, hit the vehicle but not penetrated, penetrated but not killed, been assaulted and killed, etc.

 

I thought I had the worst termicide luck in the game, but even mine wk better then 1 out of 11 times. I'd say at least 1/2 the time my termicide blowes up something important like a LR of something. (and I thought that was extremely bad luck).

.

No arguement w/ u on the plaz squads, I think they are very useful from everything from lt-med vehicles, to meq's, to MC's.

I never leave the battle barge w/out them.

[the jeske]

People just either know how to counter it without =][= help or they've just been fail-sauce.

two units +oblits that is potential 3/4 deepstriking units at 1750+ , the deviation is what 7 something on avarge[am not a math person] the termis have big bases that is already extra range to be out of 12" range to anything it takes very odd rolls and even then they can still run and be a target for next turn enemy shoting [because one sometimes can ignore 3 termis , but not when the combis werent used yet].

 

This is the whole point of a list like that .

only we suck in fire fights compering to sm . we dont have MM attack bikes or drop dreads that have a huge chance of blowing up stuff [much bigger then termicid or deep striking oblits have] , we cant combat squad and point for point , if we try to do the same what sm do we A cost more points B can run away C taking an autocanon is a meta against skimer builds like IG cav or eldar , but its wasted points if we play against anything else [because we want to get close to use our +1A against those orks, sm , etc] . D 6-8 meltaguns or 4 meltaguns 2-4 plasma guns drop a trygon type MC per turn , the same build with auto canons wont[not cancling FnP for example] .

[Vissah]

I have to agree with Jeske herecause if we want to play as the Loyalist we are a lot more expensive then them and not even that good as them.

Chaos is a close range army we do best in close range firefights and close combat so why give your guys heavy weapons.

You want to get hte best out of your guys if you ask me and letting them stand still is not the ebst thing you can do so yeah two meltas per squad is something I take.

I can keep moving, pop tanks, shoot MEQ's and TEQ's and dealing with hordes can be done by some Rapid Firing and our CC abilities.

[Atheist]

My idea was not playing as the loyalists , rather than sacrificing one special weapon ( partly compensating with a combi weapon ) to gain some long range firepower ( which is more difficult to kill - few shots spread out in 10man units hiddden inside rhinos , still eligible for cover saves when outside of the rhino ) . All this in with an all comers list in mind .

 

But as I said ( and was told by the good people of this forum on several occasions* ) , this is not how our codex is supposed to work .

 

 

 

 

* not sarcasm

[Grey Mage]

I have to agree with Jeske herecause if we want to play as the Loyalist we are a lot more expensive then them and not even that good as them.

Chaos is a close range army we do best in close range firefights and close combat so why give your guys heavy weapons.

You want to get hte best out of your guys if you ask me and letting them stand still is not the ebst thing you can do so yeah two meltas per squad is something I take.

I can keep moving, pop tanks, shoot MEQ's and TEQ's and dealing with hordes can be done by some Rapid Firing and our CC abilities.

*blinks*

10 Tacticals with a Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Powerfist, in a Rhino- 235pts.

10 CSMs with Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Champ with Powerfist, in a Rhino- 245pts. 10pts gets you +1 leadership in return for ATSKNF and an extra 10 attacks in close combat.

 

I dont think thats significantly more expensive.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

You also need Icon of Chaos Glory. That means 20 pts more expensive.

[Night Lord Dred]

My idea was not playing as the loyalists , rather than sacrificing one special weapon ( partly compensating with a combi weapon ) to gain some long range firepower ( which is more difficult to kill - few shots spread out in 10man units hiddden inside rhinos , still eligible for cover saves when outside of the rhino ) . All this in with an all comers list in mind .

 

But as I said ( and was told by the good people of this forum on several occasions* ) , this is not how our codex is supposed to work .

 

 

 

 

* not sarcasm

 

And the same people will tell you the only way to play is Oblits/PMs/Lash. Understand that there are open minded posters who contribute to new ideas, and there are closed minded posters who have certain opinions about the codex that will not change.

 

Personally, I dont think an entire army of heavy weapons would work that well. However, I think having 1 out of 3, or possibly 2 out of 4 CSM squads as heavy weapon squads is not a bad idea at all. CSM heavy weapons are extremely cheap.

 

Dont be afraid to try new ideas. And dont be afraid to share them. Ive gotten a few good ideas off this board from the open minded posters.

 

 

EDIT:

You also need Icon of Chaos Glory. That means 20 pts more expensive.

 

And I would take the CSM if I had a choice, as would SM players if they could I bet. The unit is twice as good in close combat and is a teleporter homer that will never run from shooting.

[Megalodon]

You also need Icon of Chaos Glory. That means 20 pts more expensive.

 

And I would take the CSM if I had a choice, as would SM players if they could I bet. The unit is twice as good in close combat and is a teleporter homer that will never run from shooting.

I am not a fan of comparisons between loyalist and traitor Marines, because nobody sees eye to eye on the issue. If Chaos lose combat they can be swept away and cannot regroup under 50%. Our Icon can be shot away, but ATSKNF, Combat sqds and Tactics are always there. The Basic stock CSM is slightly overpriced points wise when compared to the Loyalist marines.

 

On topic: I run two dual Melta CSM squads in all of my lists.

[Night Lord Dred]

I am not a fan of comparisons between loyalist and traitor Marines, because nobody sees eye to eye on the issue. If Chaos lose combat they can be swept away and cannot regroup under 50%. Our Icon can be shot away, but ATSKNF, Combat sqds and Tactics are always there. The Basic stock CSM is slightly overpriced points wise when compared to the Loyalist marines.

 

 

 

I wasnt going to respond because its offtopic, but that last sentence is a little ridiculous. CSM tend to have an entire army of troops because CSM are the second best troop choice in the game behind grey hunters (arguably even better when in synergy with the rest of the army). In no way are they overpriced when they have pistols and chainswords (essentially 2 extra attacks each), ld10, and the 2 specials options.

 

Tacticals on the other hand, are taken for the minimum requirements in only 2 squads of 10, or are even replaced by bikes instead.

 

Anyways, sorry to go offtopic, but I had to say it :blink:

[Atheist]

I don't mind listening what other people have to say , especially because I don't have the time to playtest every idea .

 

I come up with many (silly/far fetched) ideas often , in my futile attempt to field an overbearingly shooty chaos list and/or a list that says nicely and clearly " Oi! I am an Iron Warrior mate ! You can call me " Incomiiiiiiiiing !" " .

 

Perhaps the people who answer have tried stuff before me , so I don't mind , it's not that these ideas on the game are my intellectual property or something .

 

Bottom line : it's a codex thing , what can you do ...