Legion of the Damned and the Gate of Infinity

[Warprat]

If a Librarian joins a LotD squad and uses the Gate power, does the combined unit retain the ability to re-roll the Deep Strike roll?

 

 

 

Thanks!

 

Warprat ;)

[Isiah]

The Aid Unlooked For rule is really only for LotD arriving from reserves [and] being able to reroll their scatter. Technically Gate isn't arriving from reserves, and besides, it's the Librarian who is wielding Gate – and he doesn't have the Aid Unlooked For special rule.

 

So I'd say no they can't use it in that instance.

 

Cheers

I

[Morticon]

LotD rule: "you may re-roll the deep strike scatter if you wish".

 

Gate rule: "..immediately placed back together anywhere on the table using the deep strike rules."

 

 

As its written - you're totally good to go.

Nothing stopping you.

In fact I know a few players that make use of that combo.

[Frosty the Pyro]

LotD rule: "you may re-roll the deep strike scatter if you wish".

 

Gate rule: "..immediately placed back together anywhere on the table using the deep strike rules."

 

 

As its written - you're totally good to go.

Nothing stopping you.

In fact I know a few players that make use of that combo.

I am going to disagre, the LotD re-roll is specific to the LotD deapstrike, and would not apply to deapstrike of the GoI. A similar example would be if I have a comand squad vet on a bike with a plasmagun. Just because the bolter on the bike is twinlinked doesnt mean I get to reroll to hit with the plasma gun.

[Isiah]

LotD rule: "you may re-roll the deep strike scatter if you wish".

 

Gate rule: "..immediately placed back together anywhere on the table using the deep strike rules."

 

 

As its written - you're totally good to go.

Nothing stopping you.

In fact I know a few players that make use of that combo.

 

Well I disagree on this. Rule for Aid Unlooked For is quite clear. Besides, in the OPs example what would happen to the attached Libby who doesn't have Aid Unlooked For?

 

Cheers

I

[Warprat]

To add oil to the fire...

 

If a Librarian is in Terminator armor, can the Librarian join with the LotD squad when deployed to Reserves to be Deep Struck? If yes, does the combined unit retain Aid Unlooked For?

 

 

 

Thanks again!

 

Warprat ;)

[Isiah]

Now your just playing with us :D.

 

Yes the Libby can join the LotD squad in reserves. But I'd say no the Librarian can't reroll his scatter as he doesn't have their special rule. Although the unit could reroll theirs, the Libby would effectively be holding them back.

 

Cheers

I

[Hellios]

I had a discussion with BA players that if I had a librarian in terminator armour and he was with a squad with jump packs could that unit use a teleport homer and I'll give you the answer they gave me. No because the rules don't apply to every model in the unit and it doesn't imply it's given to any attaching characters (as far as I am aware, I could be wrong :D).

[SgtTelion]

As far as i was aware LOTD ALWAYS start in reserve regardless, and, fluff wise i wouldnt have thought a librarian could join the unit. I wouldnt have though anyone could join the LOTD damned unit. I mean, it just doesnt sound right!

The rule is called 'aid UNLOOKED for', so how the hell could a librarian or any independant character join the LOTD to deep strike in with them?

 

Alex

[Capt. Lysander]

Also, the fluff says most of the senior officers have died, so the brothers of the LotD fight with no ranks: although this doesn't explain sergeants among the available miniatures.

[Warprat]

So units with different modes of transport cannot Deep Strike together? This seems reasonable to me...

 

Warprat ;)

[Morticon]

LotD rule: "you may re-roll the deep strike scatter if you wish".

 

Gate rule: "..immediately placed back together anywhere on the table using the deep strike rules."

 

 

As its written - you're totally good to go.

Nothing stopping you.

In fact I know a few players that make use of that combo.

I am going to disagre, the LotD re-roll is specific to the LotD deapstrike, and would not apply to deapstrike of the GoI. A similar example would be if I have a comand squad vet on a bike with a plasmagun. Just because the bolter on the bike is twinlinked doesnt mean I get to reroll to hit with the plasma gun.

 

While I totally get what you and Isiah are saying and where the argument is coming from, I haven't seen anything yet that specifies that the reroll is just for Aid Unlooked for.

 

"Note that the LOTD are reknowned to arrive wherever they are most needed, so you can reroll the deep strike scatter dice if you wish".

 

Even though this is in the "Aid Unlooked For" it doesnt exclude the possibility of you rerolling it when you deepstrike again. Nor does it say (in the rule I quoted) that you may only do it in that situation.

 

Again - im happy to be convinced otherwise.

 

 

As to the OPs question, regardless of whether or not this would work- yes, a character in termy armour (or JP?) would be able to join that squad. Since the squad is in Reserve, he can do it.

Fluff wise- totally no.

Rules wise, definitely nothing stopping you from coming in with them.

[Rythlan]

I didn't quite pick it up from the above posts, so just to clarify, doesn't the whole squad lose the special ability when the IC without that ability joins it?

[Seahawk]

When in doubt, I like to check the BRB :): "When an independent character joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself, the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the character, and the character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit."

 

Then there's the list of special rules that are lost when a character joins the unit. Aid Unlooked For is not among them. For all intents and purposes the character isa normal member of the unit and is affected by anything that affects the unit.

 

Here we have a "doesn't get their special rules" but "is a normal member of the unit." How would I resolve it? "Aid Unlooked For" would work for each successive Deep Strike.

 

To make it fluffy, you could always paint the character joining them in Legion black and fire, say he's one of them. After all, "most of the senior officers have died" does not mean all have died...

[hisdudeness]

Here is something else to chew on.

 

The Vanguard "Heroic Intervention" specifically says the unit loses the ability if an IC is attached. “Aid Unlooked For” doesn’t not have that same restriction.

 

As for the original question, I say perfectly legal by rules. Be this intended or not, the wording does not narrow when the ability can be used so anytime they deepstrike they may re-roll scatter. Nowhere is the “Aid Unlooked For” re-roll limited to deepstrike from reserves.

[Rythlan]

When in doubt, I like to check the BRB :P: "When an independent character joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself, the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the character, and the character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit."

 

Then there's the list of special rules that are lost when a character joins the unit. Aid Unlooked For is not among them. For all intents and purposes the character isa normal member of the unit and is affected by anything that affects the unit.

 

Here we have a "doesn't get their special rules" but "is a normal member of the unit." How would I resolve it? "Aid Unlooked For" would work for each successive Deep Strike.

 

To make it fluffy, you could always paint the character joining them in Legion black and fire, say he's one of them. After all, "most of the senior officers have died" does not mean all have died...

 

Even though Aid Unlooked For is not in the list, does it specifically say that it is given to anything that joins the unit? The rule (my bold) seems pretty clear that a rule must state that it is conferred upon those who join. Thus I have to dissagree with your first statement.

[hisdudeness]

Good point, but why then does 'Heroic Intervention' include the remark that limits the ability when a IC joins?

[Morticon]

When in doubt, I like to check the BRB :): "When an independent character joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself, the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the character, and the character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit."

 

Then there's the list of special rules that are lost when a character joins the unit. Aid Unlooked For is not among them. For all intents and purposes the character isa normal member of the unit and is affected by anything that affects the unit.

 

Here we have a "doesn't get their special rules" but "is a normal member of the unit." How would I resolve it? "Aid Unlooked For" would work for each successive Deep Strike.

 

To make it fluffy, you could always paint the character joining them in Legion black and fire, say he's one of them. After all, "most of the senior officers have died" does not mean all have died...

 

Even though Aid Unlooked For is not in the list, does it specifically say that it is given to anything that joins the unit? The rule (my bold) seems pretty clear that a rule must state that it is conferred upon those who join. Thus I have to dissagree with your first statement.

 

Seahawk - the rule you quoted goes on to say "check the universal special rules for more detail". As a result I think this applies to that only.

If you apply your line of thinking across the board, then any special rule an IC or a Squad has will be lost. This opens up a huge can of worms. Psychic powers are a special rule, no? Command Squad has the "special rule" Honour or Death, yeah? A Chaplain has 2, Tacs etc have Combat Squad "special rule"..etc etc etc. You gonna lose all of those? I dont think so.

Vanguard have one with Heroic Intervention but that specifies no IC. Seems like a very strong precedent.

[Seahawk]

I was just putting out all the lines I thought applied to the situation. Since the LotD rule isn't on the list of rules lost, I always promoted its inclusion and use with a Librarian attached; maybe that idea was lost in translation?

[Morticon]

I was just putting out all the lines I thought applied to the situation. Since the LotD rule isn't on the list of rules lost, I always promoted its inclusion and use with a Librarian attached; maybe that idea was lost in translation?

 

My bad! Thought you were saying otherwise - I think the poster after you was though, yeah?

[rat of vengence]

"Unless specified in the rule itself"

 

Surely this is enough to suggest that the attached HQ model denies the unit it's special deep strike ability?

 

RoV

[Kephri]

Doesn't 'Aid Unlooked For' also state that the unit MUST start in reserve?

 

If an IC is attached during deployment, and they loose their special rule, can the LotD be set up normally?

 

(No codex with me at the moment. I am not sure if they have 2 separate rules)

[Rythlan]

It does seem that Aid Unlooked For should indeed confer to an IC that joins it, but I am still having a hard time getting past the "Unless specified in the rule itself..."

 

Chalk it up to a badly written rule, and go be the list then?

[Isiah]

It does seem that Aid Unlooked For should indeed confer to an IC that joins it, but I am still having a hard time getting past the "Unless specified in the rule itself..."

Chalk it up to a badly written rule, and go be the list then?

 

You'd be right to. It isn't conferred. Basic rules regarding ICs joining a unit with special rules comes into play here [p47]:

 

"When an independent character joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself, the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the character, and the character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit."

 

Unless Aid has a line saying its conferred upon an attaching IC then it isn't simple as that.

 

 

 

When in doubt, I like to check the BRB :lol:: "When an independent character joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself, the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the character, and the character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit."

 

Then there's the list of special rules that are lost when a character joins the unit. Aid Unlooked For is not among them. For all intents and purposes the character isa normal member of the unit and is affected by anything that affects the unit.

 

Even though Aid Unlooked For is not in the list, does it specifically say that it is given to anything that joins the unit? The rule (my bold) seems pretty clear that a rule must state that it is conferred upon those who join. Thus I have to dissagree with your first statement.

 

Seahawk - the rule you quoted goes on to say "check the universal special rules for more detail". As a result I think this applies to that only.

If you apply your line of thinking across the board, then any special rule an IC or a Squad has will be lost.

 

[...]

 

Psychic powers are a special rule, no?

 

[...]

 

 

Firstly – problem here is that Aid isn't by any stretch a Universal Special Rule – so that "list" [p74-76 BRB] you refer to has no bearing here.

 

Secondly – it isn't that units/characters lose their special rules, it's that they aren't conferred from one to the other, that's wholly different. The bit about losing special rules or not is soley for USRs.

 

I've picked the bit on psychic powers as a prime example. Of course the Libby doesn't loose his ability to use them – it's just that the squad he's attached to don't gain them by having them conferred

:lol:. [bTW, psychic powers are not a special rule, "Psyker" is].

 

Lastly – Aid can't be used with Gate. Its a special rule soley for deploying from reserves.

 

As I stated way back, the Libby could join the unit, but as Aid can't be conferred upon him, he can't reroll his scatter, so, by dint of being attached neither can the LotD unit. They haven't lost their power – just can't use it with Libby attached.

 

Cheers

I

[Morticon]

Isiah, I see your point about losing vs. not conferring.

 

However, in that case, why would the librarian need to have that rule conferred to him? Hes simply with the squad that has that ability. And you roll according to the squads ability, not the librarians.

 

If you argue its not lose but also not conferred to the librarian, what difference will it make if he has the rule or not?