Combi and Storm Bolters

[Astartes Consul]

Hey All,

 

Just wondering what everyone's opinions are about equipping HQ choices and Vet. Sergeants with Combi bolters or Storm Bolters, my personal opinion is that their great for Vet. Sergeants and HQ choices in small points games.

 

Of course, there’s the obvious loss of an extra attack because their two handed weapons.

 

So what do you guys think? Good choice? Bad choice? A bit of both?

 

 

Peace :)

[Grey Mage]

If they have a powerfist it cant hurt... if they have a powerweapon I would never sacrifice the bolt pistol... that extra attack is solid gold.

[JamesI]

As long as it doesn't cost you an attack up close (you are using a fist/thunder hammer or single lightning claw) its good. I like combi-meltas personally, but stormbolters are a good choice.

[minigun762]

If they have a powerfist it cant hurt... if they have a powerweapon I would never sacrifice the bolt pistol... that extra attack is solid gold.

 

Seconded. Really the question should be "Can I spend those points elsewhere?" If the answer is no, its a good buy.

Its also a nice way for Codex Marines to approximate the 2 specials that Chaos/SW have.

[LardO'Blood]

Well...Cassius? Ok so hes unique but...

As far as veteran sergeants are concerned I'd throw a combi flamer in to help out in an assault some.

[Astartes Consul]

Would you guys therefore say that they're probably a lot better used on Squad Sergeants and HQs/ICs? Because I would never give an IC a Power First, seems like a waste of the higher initiative which is also a bummer as it just invited people to allocate all their attack on your IC before he/she/it can strike...:)

 

Also, Vet Sergeants can still have Storm Bolters and all the Combi weapons in the new 'dex?

 

If that’s the case, is giving say giving a tac squad with a rhino/razorback a vet sergeant with a combi weapon in addition to a special weapon and a heavy weapon and using the combat squad rules to create a 5 man 'support' unit and a 5 man transport mounted 'assault' unit a good idea. I've never used the combat squads rule in practice so I'm just wondering if that's a clever way to play it?

 

Peace :lol:

[minigun762]

Would you guys therefore say that they're probably a lot better used on Squad Sergeants and HQs/ICs? Because I would never give an IC a Power First, seems like a waste of the higher initiative which is also a bummer as it just invited people to allocate all their attack on your IC before he/she/it can strike...:)

 

Also, Vet Sergeants can still have Storm Bolters and all the Combi weapons in the new 'dex?

 

If that’s the case, is giving say giving a tac squad with a rhino/razorback a vet sergeant with a combi weapon in addition to a special weapon and a heavy weapon and using the combat squad rules to create a 5 man 'support' unit and a 5 man transport mounted 'assault' unit a good idea. I've never used the combat squads rule in practice so I'm just wondering if that's a clever way to play it?

 

Peace :lol:

 

They also work on Relic Blade Captains/Masters since they can't get the +1 attack either.

 

As for the Combat Squadding, it could be. I play Chaos so I'm not 100% on Combat Squads but honestly I'd probably think that the Combi would be most useful in Rhino or Pod weapons as it gives you an additional weapon to use when you disembark.

[ShinyRhino]

Stormbolters are one of those weapons you don't see on PA Marines for some reason. Probably because the points tend to pile up on the model when you start taking them. Tac sergeants with a powerfist are theonly really viable way to use them there, and you're already sinking extra points onto him for the fist.

You could take one on a captain/chaplain/libby, but you'd lose the extra attack in close combat that you'd normally get from a pistol weapon. Though if you take a relic blade on the captain/master, the stormbolter gives you two shots before the charge, since you can't get an extra attack for a pistol, PLUS you get the I5 attacks with the relic blade.

 

I thought it would be great fun to take a tactical Squad sergeant with a sotrmbolter, and put his squad in a Rhino that has also purchased an extra stormbolter. Then drive that puppy 12", and unleash six Stormbolter shots (two from each one on the Rhino, two from the Sergeant from a fire point), as well as a flame template against a squishy target. They're all Assault weapons (or Defensive weapons, in the case of the Rhino), and can fire after a 12" move. Unless I'm addled and forgetting the Vehicle movement/firing rules.

[Grey Mage]

You are- passengers can never shoot out of a vehicle that moved over 6".

[garreth]

I prefer combi-flamers for my Vet.Sgts, because it 100% hits with it single shot. My Tac squad with plasmagun, lasscannon, powerfist and combi-flamer - is good all-round force.

[ShinyRhino]

You are- passengers can never shoot out of a vehicle that moved over 6".

 

Indeed I am. I think I was dreaming of some sort of Landspeeder Storm/Rhino lovechild. lol

[Grey Mage]

That would be amazing.... gifts of the emperor IIRC.

[Xeonic]

Combi weapons are a requirement in one situation, and picture this. You take Sicarius, okay he's not a super awesome HQ choice, he's overall a very solid one, you give one tac squad Tank Hunters. Give it a lascannon, a meltagun, and a combi melta(maybe a powerfist), combat squad it down and pop the lascannon into some vantage point and move the melta death into range via transport. Lascannon that's effectively S10? Oh yes.

 

Other than that it's more a question if I have points, I personally will take a combi plasma with a PC/PG squad, but put no other upgrades on those sergeants(maybe melta bombs), combi-melta are pretty good general choice, generally worst case you instadeath one infantry guy and as long as he was worth more than 10pts I don't feel like it was a bad choice. Combi-flamers can help in pre-assault shooting but generally speaking I don't bother, but would bring a couple in sternguard maybe. Generally speaking I will only take a combi on a sergeant with no other upgrades or with a powerfist.

 

On ICs they're great, specifically captain/masters or techmarine/MoTF who have a high BS to take advantage of it, as long as you're not taking a power weapon. I say use them with relic blades, fists(not great on an IC), lightning claws, or thunderhammers where you are already sacrificing the attack for some other edge. If your HQ is in Terminator armor there's no reason not to(super cheap upgrade IIRC) since you're relentless anyways, and so can rapid fire+assault.

[Astartes Consul]

Landspeed Storm/Rhino love child...hmm...

 

I was about to ask opinions on Lightening claws + Combi weapons...makes sense as your not lossing ur Iniative in close combat OR an extra attack by having a two handed ranged weapon :tu:

 

Combi Flamer...I've never thought of using that before...

 

 

Peace :)

[General Retreat]

Combi weapons are a requirement in one situation, and picture this. You take Sicarius, okay he's not a super awesome HQ choice, he's overall a very solid one, you give one tac squad Tank Hunters. Give it a lascannon, a meltagun, and a combi melta(maybe a powerfist), combat squad it down and pop the lascannon into some vantage point and move the melta death into range via transport. Lascannon that's effectively S10? Oh yes.

 

 

I've used this exact layout, and posted it in lists here quite some time ago, and I agree, this is one time a Combi-Melta is golden.

 

Sicarous granting Tank Hunters to

 

Tactical x 10 Lascannon, Meltagun, Powerfist, Combi-Melta, Razorback w/ LC/TL-PG + EA

(310 points iirc)

 

It's pricey, but you get a Str 10 Lascannon, a Str 9 AP 1 (+2d6) Meltagun AND Combi-Melta, and a Str 9 Powerfist against vehicles. Oh, plus everyone's Krak grenades count as Str 7.

 

And they're immune to tank shock, yadda yadda. CS Lascannon in the back, join Sicarious to CS Powerfist/Melta bodyguard, etc.

 

 

Anyway, back to the point, the Combi-Anything is there to give some insurance to a unit's special weapon job. Especially with Meltas, one shot wonders fail too easily, and all to often just a single melta leaves you standing in front of an immobilized tank staring down a battlecannon or worse as the Emperor's Finest Meltagunner slags a tank-shaped boulder beside what is obviously a large rumbling bush.

 

Of course, the Seargent saw that the bush was a Leman Russ, but he had his helmet off and couldn't communicate that to Brother Doofus. However, if he had been armed with a Combi-Melta, the squad would have had a second chance at avoiding embarassment and death.

 

In game terms, all the Combi-'s are good for something. Just pair them with the special weapon of the same type for insurance, or to keep the upgrades cheap in a squad that doesn't want to assault anyway. For instance, I use this frequently:

 

Tactical x 10 Plasma Cannon, Plasmagun, Combi-Plasma, Razorback w/ LC/TL-PG + EA (285)

 

The point of the Combi-Plasma in this squad is to get extra shots when the Combat Squad disembarks. Chances are, if I'm lobbing plasma at it in the first place, it's a heavy infantry unit that is high priority. Having two extra shots right off the bat can really make a big difference. Often, whoever shoots first and hardest wins. The Combi-Plasma gives me those two shots when I need it, and I don't waste any more points on the Seargent, who I assume will die if he gets in assault with heavy infantry anyway. I'd rather spend the points on the nice transport, which, as you see, also backs up the anti-heavy infantry role I have in mind here.

 

I also have toyed around with this squad for various uses:

 

Tactical x 10 Heavy Bolter, Flamer, Combi-Flamer, Rhino + EA + Extra SB (240)

 

This is a squad that plans to never disembark if they can help it. Their mission is to perform drive-by flamings on tightly packed light infantry units. If and when they get a chance to lay on two templates, the Searge has the option. Ask anyone who plays Sisters of Battle what the difference a second flamer can make.

 

Likewise in an Assault Squad on jumppacks, you can get a THIRD flame template with a Combi-Flamer, and you can equip a PF or single LC on an Assault Seargent, so the +1A would be lost anyway.

 

These are just a few uses. I've seen some mixed role combinations work very well, too, like

 

Tactical x 10 Rocket Launcher, Meltagun, Combi-Flamer, PF

 

Depending on your local meta, and what little holes you need to fill in your firepower, Combi-'s are the flexible "kicker" piece of wargear that lets you reinforce or diversify a unit's tactical role.

[ShinyRhino]

Speaking of stormbolters, I've always wanted to combine a stormbolter with a jump pack. I don't know WHY, but I just think it would be fun. You'd have a 36" threat range.

Problem is, the only option to get this comes in the form of a lone HQ model with a jump pack on. Assault and Vanguard squads cannot take it, and command squads were stripped of their mobility options in this Codex ;). I know I'd pair it with a relic blade for max effectiveness, but can't think of a way to actually make it useful all by its lonesome.

 

Can anyone think of a fast-mover unit that can field a good number of stormbolters?

[garreth]

Assault squad sgts can't get combi-weapon.

 

I think to make command squad with stormbolters - very cheap choise and don't use FOC slot. But it's stil only 4 sb in squad.

[JamesI]

For non-Codex Marine players: Veteran Assault Squad in BA can have jump packs and 3 Stormbolters/combi-weapons.

 

But, there really isn't any way to get something like that into Codex Marines right now.

[Grey Mage]

And for 48pts SW players can get a Veteran with a SB, CCW, and JP. Each. *sighs*.

[Giga]

In my vulkan lists, I like equipping my forward element tac squad sergeants with a power fist and combiflamer. This allows the squad to throw two twinlinked flamer templates in the rapid fire range. Rather effective for infantry-murder.

[SamaNagol]

The second arm is for Storm Shields or a Bolt Pistol.