The Dark Swords 2.0 Discussion Topic

[Ace Debonair]

I'm extremely unsure about your marines handling chaos weapons. Whilst emulating solid snake in some aspects is good, there's simply no need for your marines to pick up any old chaos-gun and start firing at enemies with it.

You don't know where it's been, for one thing. The chaos marine who last used it might not have washed his hands. :D

 

Or, on a serious note, there's now way of realistically telling how chaos-y the weapon in question might be. What seems like an ordinary bolter might even be filled with shrieking chaos energies that blast your stealthy cover into shreds even as you craftily execute a more-than-usually alert sentry.

 

Besides, one thing I would totally reccomend for your first company is extreme skill with the humble ordinary astartes-issue bolter. The picture of an ancient techmarine setting up said holy weapons for stealth missions in the hands of his extremely focused battle-brothers is a mental image I find hard to banish for the sheer coolness. :P

[CantonWC]

Oh that. Sorry, I didn't specify. They're not picking up chaos weapons period. The protective litanies I suppose would provide some measure of protection in a Chaos-tainted environment, but they know better than to fool around with corrupted weaponry. The litanies would be there mainly to assuage their superstitious fears, because they don't want to soil their hands picking up filthy alien weapons.

 

Extreme skill with plain old bolters and knives is a given. These guys should be able to pick up and kill enemies with rocks, because they're that good. ;)

[Ace Debonair]

Well, that's a load off my mind.

 

What I more accurately meant to say is that perhaps your veterans disdain other shiny toys because they can do so much damage with their bolters. Where other chapters place emphasis on big, powerful weapons, your marines could place the focus on the austere, relying only on the most ancient and holy of space marine weapons.

 

In any event, good stuff.

[CantonWC]

That's something to think about. What did you have in mind? Maybe the Veteran shoots the conveniently placed explosive barrel to wipe out a whole platoon? Or casually snipes one handed from a mile away?

 

I think it might be more accurate though, to say that they do what it takes to get the job done, with any weapon (except chaos) at hand and no matter the odds. That's the recurring theme of the Chapter.

 

Next installment:

 

The Battle Companies

 

I’ll try and make this one quick. The Dark Swords have a minor alteration to their Battle Companies, being arranged thusly: 5 Tactical, 3 Assault, and 2 Devastator.

 

Assault Squads

 

Close combat is regarded by the Dark Swords as potentially the most dangerous of all the arenas of battle. Whereas midrange firefights can to some extent be methodical, planned for or worked around (flanking, cover fire, suppressing of enemy positions), close quarter combat demands split second decisions and precise application of force, often in an enclosed space with opposing combatants in very close proximity. CQC can potentially dissolve into chaotic affairs, and in the case of well-trained enemies equipped with power weapons could end disastrously for the attackers.

 

For these reasons the assault squads are invariably composed of the oldest and most experienced Marines in each Battle Company. These men are highly respected by their peers, being one step below the almost mythical First Company Veterans. I wonder if maybe this would affect Organization slightly, since the 8th Company Reserve would essentially all be elite?

 

Standard tactics I think would be for the Assault Marines to wait in reserve while the Tacs and Devastators pin down the enemy. With the enemy pinned in place the Assault Marines leap out of hiding to deliver the coup de grace, the ideal being a single clean strike that sweeps away the enemy position. Alternatively, the tactic could be employed in reverse, with Assault striking first and clearing out enemy forward positions allowing friendly squads to move up.

 

Assault squads wouldn’t just be given the responsibility of assaulting, however. Besides close combat they would also be issued melta bombs and trained in vehicle hunting. In a protracted conflict they might be called upon to conduct hit and run attacks on enemy positions and supply lines. This tactical complexity is another reason why the Swords prefer to assign the oldest Marines to the assault squads.

 

The incredible mobility afforded by their jump packs is an epitomization and key component of the Dark Swords’ approach to warfare. The most mobile army, the Dark Swords hold, is the most tactically flexible, being capable of bringing the enemy to battle at any time and any place, while also being able to withdraw, redeploy and attack from a different angle should the battle go against them. This is the reason why the Swords include an extra Assault squad in every Battle Company.

 

 

Tactical Squads are of course the backbone of the Battle Companies and indeed, the whole Chapter. I’m going to try out a little experiment, basing the organization of the squads on real life military organization.

 

Each squad is composed of nine men lead by a sergeant for a total of ten, but split into two separate fire teams. The sergeant leads one fire team, other is lead by his… second in command? Let’s call him the second for now. Both the sergeant and the second are geared for close combat and expected to deal with any hostiles that attempt to engage the fire teams in close quarters.

 

One man is the Healer or Apothecary Minor. There’s only one Apothecary per Company, I think, but each squad is assigned a man trained by that Apothecary. The Minor, while lacking the advanced knowledge of the Apothecary has the necessary tools and skills to keep his allies alive and in the fight.

 

One man is the designated marksman. He carries components to turn his bolter into a sniping system or has his bolter modified before battle, and provides rapid, accurate sniper fire at midrange.

 

Two men are the designated special weapon operators. They typically carry either a flamer or a melta gun into battle. Plasma weapons are not held in high regard by the Dark Swords, they know plasma is very risky to use and an accident could claim the life of a brother. I like to think that the Dark Swords will start to become ‘genre-savvy’ very quickly, as they start to notice how some nasty things in the 40k universe just don’t die after hitting them with five rounds rapid. They’ll start to appreciate the melta very much for its overkill nature and the fact it doesn’t seem to have the problems associated with plasma guns.

 

I’m not sure about giving them heavy weapons. I picture the squad as being very quick and mobile, in keeping with the doctrine of mobility, darting from cover to cover until their flamers and meltas are in range. But there is a slight caveat, see below.

 

 

Devastator Squads

 

At first I was unsure about the Dark Swords making use of Devastators, seeing as how they need to be in a fixed position, which doesn’t fit in with the doctrine of mobility. But then I have to remind myself that I am writing this Chapter based strictly on the fiction and not necessarily to represent a tabletop army. Thus certain tabletop rules I think can be safely disregarded.

 

Consider how the Space Marine Scouts are allowed to carry heavy bolters and missile launchers. Fiction-wise, this could only be possible if those weapons are light enough to be quickly carried without making too much noise. Thus, Devastators are technically still mobile and still have a role in a Dark Swords strike force; even more so, I think, since the Swords don’t make frequent use of heavy vehicles like Predators and Land Raiders. I like to think of the Swords as not having as much access to the more exotic weapons like plasma cannons and multi-meltas, thus making do with more “old-fashioned” but still reliable heavy machine guns and missiles.

 

Tacticals and Devastators I think would make for a fearsome team. Heavy bolter gunners arrive via drop pod, quickly set up and suppress enemies while the Tacticals aggressively move forward, literally melting their way through enemy emplacements. And just when the enemy thinks it can’t get any worse, the Assault Marines fall screaming from the sky to finish the deed.

[Guest Mordray]

Your Assault Marines sound to me like a rival to your 1st company vets... perhaps the two have bad blood... not great but enough that there is stress between the two. Especially in the way they function I can see the two having a 'friendly' rivalry as their jobs are just so different...

 

... interestingly it's noted in the Raptor Cult's origins that jump troupers from the heresy era tended toward pride... just a thought.

 

 

As for the devastators and mobility. Super human strength and training second only to the assassins (maybe)... and what I know about heavy weapons in the modern era suggests to me that fighting on the move wouldn't be a problem...

- Missile launcher - we are even know developing a infantry portable system that needs only mere seconds to target and then is independent allowing the soldier to fire and move.

- Heavy Bolter - this is a bit of an oddity as it's essentially a scaled up fully automatic version of a weapon reported to have little in the way of recoil. Yet the only known version to be capable of firing on the move also has a shortened range... personally I'd just knock this one over into the game balance catagory and have your guys make advancing fire if needed. With a weapon that big though and it's method of being carried I just can't imagine it'd be accurate when used in such a manor.

- Laser Cannon - this depends entirely upon how you think it does it's damage. Generally lasers fall into two categories pulse and stream/beam. The first method is perfect for creating an assault weapon being capable of firing on the move, however I believe they are also generally shorter ranged... though I have no idea if that's for balance or real world considerations... as it packs all of it's damage into a highly focused pulse of energy. The second method requires a stready hand and longer on target time as it projects all of it's damage over a longer period of time... rather good for strafing an infantry formation but requires longer to damage something like a vehicle.

- plasma - no idea on the recoil of something like this... but you've also said they don't like the tech because it tends to backfire... perhaps only have plasma mounted on vehicles... could make for an interesting predator variant.

[Ace Debonair]

That's something to think about. What did you have in mind? Maybe the Veteran shoots the conveniently placed explosive barrel to wipe out a whole platoon? Or casually snipes one handed from a mile away?

 

I think it might be more accurate though, to say that they do what it takes to get the job done, with any weapon (except chaos) at hand and no matter the odds. That's the recurring theme of the Chapter.

 

If that's what you thought I meant, then sadly my writing style is not as clear as I had first thought.

 

What I perhaps more accurately meant to say was that the first company of the Dark Swords could state with pride that they can do with just bolters what other chapter's veterans can do with power swords, meltas, lightning claws and missile launchers.

 

Of course the Dark Swords might make additional use of a grenade or two. Or possibly some melta bombs for taking out vehicles or other heavily armoured threats. Maybe, though, they could prefer to disable vehicles by shooting the drivers (when possible).

 

Of course, this whole take on your idea could just be a load of rubbish, so feel free to ignore or dispose of any of these thoughts as you see fit.

[CantonWC]

@ Mordray

 

Maybe a slight friendly rivalry. Not sure about bad blood, there's enough bad guys without, they don't need to be resenting each other! But yeah, friendly rivalry, maybe egging each other on in battle, challenging each other to do better, despite the Chapter mission charter plainly stating "teamwork" and "humility" as the core values of the Chapter :lol:

 

I see the Swords organizing themselves by squad role and experience, like so:

 

Vets

Assault Marines

Tacs

Devastators

 

The youngest would be the Devastators, while the older, more experienced Marines are Vets and Assaults. Kind of like Space Wolves in reverse, with their veterans handling heavy weapons and younger marines assaulting.

 

Heavy Bolters I think are just weird in general. I mean, you have a grip in the back and there's a little spot to hold onto in the front, how do you hold that? There should at least be a shoulder strap or something.

 

I think maybe the way it could work out is their local Forgeworld specializes in melta technology, which would explain their preference and a general lack of plasma weapons.

 

@ Ace I'll keep your ideas in mind.

[CantonWC]

The Reserves and Vehicles

 

Reserves are essentially the same as any other Codex Chapter. However, I wonder if I should take the 8th Company (Assault) and bump them up to 2nd Company? Since in this Chapter, the Assault Marines are considered to be semi-elites, one step below the Veterans, and the number change would signify this. All the other Companies are naturally bumped down one.

 

Vehicles

 

Dreadnoughts

 

I rather like Dreadnoughts, and I think the Swords will likely field them in most of their battles. Although somewhat slow, their ability to arrive via drop pod, negotiate rough terrain and carry heavy firepower puts them over the top. However, I don’t know if the Dark Swords would have more than the usual number of Dreadnoughts, or if the usual number would be enough. And if they had more, where would they get them?

 

Land Speeders

 

These guys love Land Speeders. Seriously. Again, it’s that epitomization of their combat philosophy; incredible speed and mobility, the ability to put heavy firepower anywhere on the enemy’s line and quickly withdraw before the enemy can retaliate. All Land Speeder variants are heavily used, including that Tempest variant from Forgeworld, although the Land Speeder Storm tends to only be used by the Veterans due to its stealthy nature.

 

I wonder maybe if I should dedicate a whole Company to using Land Speeders? Kind of like how the Dark Angels have their Ravenwing. In any case the dedicated Land Speeder pilots attached to each Company would want to associate informally, due to their shared profession and mutual interests. Maybe they can have their own cult – something like worshipping the art of the high speed kill. Perhaps they would be a little cocky, fostering a rivalry between the “ground pounders” and themselves because of their unique skills. Heck, they could go all the way and start giving themselves call signs like Top Gun :lol:

 

Lack of Heavy Vehicles

 

Apart from Rhinos and Razorbacks, there would be a general lack of heavy Vehicles like Predators, Vindicators and Land Raiders. Not sure exactly why, maybe it’s a holdover from the Raven Guard or the old codex rules, stuff like Flesh over Steel.

 

There could be a variety of fluff reasons. Perhaps they lose them over time and just don’t have the time or inclination to replace them. Maybe their combat doctrine doesn’t make heavy use of heavier vehicles, placing more emphasis on an infantry force as a core. As seen above they tend to make use of Dreadnoughts and Land Speeders as substitutes for Predators and Land Raiders. maybe they just have a small motor pool to begin with and always have.

 

Since I’ve already covered their combat doctrine a little bit by describing the various roles of the units, I think I’ll just hold off on that for now. Next time I will start exploring their Chapter creed, to really get at the core of their character.

[Neophyte of Slaanesh]

One way to cut down on your wall of text could be by excluding the rhetorical bits. A bit bombastic, if you will. Plus, we all have a general idea of the Raven Guard so don't worry about going into too much comparison between them and your Chapter. I, for one, would much rather hear exclusively about the Dark Swords. :P

 

Stealth isn't really my bit so let's see...

 

I like the battle world idea. I'm certainly no 40k expert, but it sounds original. My question would be if the Dark Swords are so concerned with the lives of their potential recruits, wouldn't some go to waste battling criminals? Or in their training phase are the DS willing to throw lives away for the purpose of finding the best recruits possible?

 

Also just a thought and maybe I missed it in my skimming (sorry, hunger distracts me from my work!), but is there something in their stealth tactics at which they don't excel? I see that you're focusing on their genetic makeup as their weakness, but that's sort of inherent and so sort of infallible. Does my question make sense?

 

Your enthusiasm is contagious! Must get back to writing! :P

 

((Edited to say I feel like my comments make me seem like a complete a-hole. Don't hate me! :lol: ))

[CantonWC]

One way to cut down on your wall of text could be by excluding the rhetorical bits.

 

What? What ever do you mean good sir?

 

The way I see it, if it helps, is this is just the brainstorming phase. I'm laying everything out on the table for everyone to see, I guess the easiest way for me is to just stretch every line of thought out as far as it will go. When the time comes to write a proper IA, this will be the guide.

 

I think it would be kind of hard to talk about these guys without talking a little about the RG. Much of their character, themes, ideas all come straight from thinking long and hard about my favorite Legion.

 

I like the battle world idea

 

I think I'm leaning more toward a massive training vessel that's constantly on the move with the rest of the Chapter fleet.

 

Some recruits will certainly die during training. Hopefully not many, but some. I don't think the Swords are much different from other Chapters in that regard. Some will be found worthy, some won't. The Swords don't have to like it, but it's a necessary evil. I think the training exercises would overall be a more acceptable alternative to having Scouts in the field doing recon, since they can control the settings and variables of a training exercise to some extent.

 

I think that as the new recruits progress more and more they would eventually have to face the Chapter serfs, the best non-augmented humans the Swords have at their disposal. It would be inhumanly cruel... which makes it fit in perfectly with the crapsack 40k universe :) Again, a necessary evil. The serfs would be fanatically loyal and willing to sacrifice themselves just so the recruits will be as prepared as possible for the battlefield.

 

Also just a thought and maybe I missed it in my skimming (sorry, hunger distracts me from my work!), but is there something in their stealth tactics at which they don't excel? I see that you're focusing on their genetic makeup as their weakness, but that's sort of inherent and so sort of infallible. Does my question make sense?

 

Sorry, don't understand.

[Neophyte of Slaanesh]

Mmm, now I wouldn't mind hearing more about the recruits fighting the chapter serfs.

 

So will you put this up for the Gauntlet challenge then?

[CantonWC]

The Chapter serf thing is just a random idea I had, not sure if it will stick. Must think about it more.

 

Once I get a true IA rolling I'll start thinking about the Gauntlet.

[CantonWC]

Chapter Creed

 

I’m not totally positive on where the Dark Swords would get some of their beliefs. Maybe they had an especially influential first Chapter Master who naturally passed down his beliefs, or some major event in their early history influenced some of their beliefs.

 

First off let’s go over what we know. The jumping-off point are the beliefs of the Raven Guard, who to me give off the impression of being a more ‘secular’ Chapter than most, less “foaming at the mouth fanatic” and more measured and reserved. They pay respect to the Emperor as the master of humanity but little more, but they revere Corax as a leader who could make difficult but necessary decisions. Their post-battle sermons are less given over to religious matter than tactical analysis.

 

This is the base from which I will proceed.

 

The Emperor

 

Like most Chapters the Dark Swords do not revere the Emperor as a god but as the greatest man who ever lived. The Swords prefer to break down their reverence of the Emperor in terms of his various aspects: the Emperor was a great thinker, a great leader, a great soldier… and a great servant. It is this aspect of Emperor that the Swords emulate the most. They believe the Emperor is not only the master of humanity, he also its greatest benefactor and servant, because everything he did, even his own mortal body he sacrificed out of love for humanity, that mankind might have a better life free from the Daemon and the alien.

 

As his descendants, the Dark Swords believe that the responsibility of protecting and guiding humanity has naturally been passed down to them. Anyone who forgets or forsakes that responsibility is less than a man, let alone an Astartes.

 

Manifest Destiny

 

I like to think of this as the cornerstone of the Dark Swords’ creed. It is a belief that is very easily arrived by asking one simple question: ‘Why did the Emperor launch the Great Crusade?’ In other words why did he do what he did?

 

This is of course a belief that naturally extends somewhat out of the first point. The Great Crusade was launched to free humanity from the oppression of the Daemon, the Mutant and the Alien; to reunite humanity under its one true master; and to claim the galaxy and set up humanity as its rightful master. Only humanity may inherit the galaxy, and that anything or anyone who would dare to stand in the way of that goal is an abomination in the eyes of the Emperor that must be exterminated with extreme prejudice. They refer to this manifest destiny as the Sacred Mission.

 

They believe that it is not about any one Marine. It’s not about winning honor or glory. It’s not even about the Chapter; it’s about the Emperor and the sacred mission he charged his marines with fulfilling. To this end, everything the Chapter does must contribute toward the fulfillment of this mission.

 

This would be another justification for why the Swords fight the way they do (other than it being sensible). To the Swords, other Chapters who balk at “fighting dirty” (using stealth, stabbing the enemy in the back when he’s not looking) clearly value their own egos over doing what is necessary to fulfill the Sacred Mission, although due to their general attitudes and values they would want to keep these feelings and resentments to themselves.

 

Xenophobia

 

Naturally continuing from the last point. The Swords were founded as an anti-xenos Chapter, to combat xenos activity in their assigned area of space in Ultima Segmentum, and this virulent hatred of aliens will naturally be reinforced by centuries of fighting primarily alien opponents.

 

The Swords hold that coexistence with aliens is impossible, sooner or later they will rise up and attempt to subvert humanity, therefore it is best to exterminate them all. Collusion with aliens is not only a crime, it is base treachery and a betrayal of all the Emperor stood for.

 

Apart from their hatred of the alien, the Chapter, as a Raven Guard Successor also maintains the traditional hatreds of the Istvaan traitors and will leap at any chance to exterminate war bands from those particular Legions.

 

Corax

 

I have tried long and hard to pin down how these guys feel about Corax, and every time I seem to come away with something different.

 

Obviously the rank and file don’t need to know about what Corax did to help his Legion survive the Horus Heresy. Not to intrude on the Dark Angels’ territory, but the knowledge of Corax’s experiments would crush any average brother marine. They just don’t need to know.

 

The Chapter Master and command staff will know, maybe the 1st Company Veterans, not sure.

 

Or, I could do something completely different and have it where everyone knows, and people are encouraged to talk about it. That could mark the Chapter out as very different.

 

Thoughts?

 

I know I have one or two more things I could write about, but I just can’t think right now. I will post some more once I have collected my thoughts.

[CantonWC]

Not dead yet. Not yet.

 

Yeah, so productivity has gone way down. School is right around the corner, so I doubt I can make many more posts like the ones before. I have a good general idea of who the Dark Swords are, now I just need to get into specific, concrete details.

 

Hopefully I can get to writing a full IA when I have a little more time and creativity. The dream is dormant, not dead.

 

First, I doubt the Dark Swords have anything in the way of a battle cry. The idea of a battle cry doesn't seem to suit them. However, to compensate I think every Company would have its own motto. Some are obviously Special Forces or army mottos, others taken from the DIY guide, others I just made up. Some I think are really representative of the Chapter, others not so much, but I jotted them down anyway. Let me know what you think.

 

De Oppresso Liber

Deeds Not Words

Who Dares Wins

From the Darkness the Light

By His Grace We Triumph

Semper Fidelis

In The Emperor We Trust, All Others We Will Destroy

Through Misdirection, Thou Shalt Do War

With Our Shield Or On It

No Man Escapes Us

Semper Vigilans – Always Vigilant

Let Them Hate, So Long As They Fear – Oderint Dum Metuant

Pauci sed boni – Few Men, But Good Ones

Post tenebras lux – After the darkness, comes light

Exemplo ducemus – We lead by example

What is Necessary, Not What is Wanted

 

I've also been tinkering around with a phonetic alphabet. I think it would greatly enhance the "modern military" feel of the Chapter if they were constantly jabbering at each other in phonetic speak. Alot of the words are Greek myth, others are more random. I think to get that Gothic 40k feel I need to find more words relating to the Imperium, or to general 40k culture or the fleet-based culture of the Swords. That is, words relating to the lifestyle they would have living all the time on their ships.

 

A – Alpha, Aquila, Apollo

B – Baphomet, Behemoth, Bahamut, Bellus

C – Chimera, Corax, Chapter, Chaplain, Codex

D – Duke, Damocles, Delta, Disciple, Darius, Doom

E – Emperor, Echo, Ecclesiarch

F – Forge

G – Gladius

H – Hades, Helios, Hunter

I – Immortal, Indigo, Island

J

K – King, Kymera

L – Leviathan, Litany

M – Martyr, Medusa, Minotaur

N

O – Omni, Ophelia, Obsidian

P – Prodigal, Prometheus, Predator

Q – Question,

R – Russ, Raider, Royal

S – Spartan

T – Temoke, Temple, Templar, Thunder, Terra

U – Ultima, Union

V – Viper, Victis, Void

W

X – Xeno, Xerxes, X-Ray

Y

Z – Zeus