Need help vs Tau

[Wolf Lord Cuneglas]

Okay, so I'm having a little trouble winning with my GK's. Honestly I've never won a game with them. I played against my friends Tau army and he had me tabled by turn 6. I've read lots of articles online and have been reading this forum for awhile but I just can't figure out this army (I have a SW, IG, Cron & Daemon army that I can win with). Here was the scenario:

 

Capture and Control

Dawn of war

 

GK's:

Inquisitor lord, psycannon, 3 mystics, 2 sages, 3 warriors 2 HB & 1 MultiMelta

Stern w/ 5 TDA GK's, 2 TH/SS 2 SB/NFW and 1 psycannon loaded in a Crusader

10 IST Melta Flmr

10 IST Melta Flmr

10 IST Plasma Flmr

7 PAGK Incinerator

Vindicare

 

vs

 

2 Hammerheads

3 Broadsides

 

2 Firewarriors loaded in Devilfish

4 Deepstriking Stealth Suits

3 squads of 2 Deepstriking Crisis suits

 

Basically I put my inquisitor squad in a building (on top for the cover instead of the 11 Armor) near my objective and deployed my Plasma IST on top of my objective and brought my PAGK's to support them. My vindicare came walked on, but was killed before he could fire a shot by the Stealth suits. I put a squad of Melta IST foward and send my crusader rumbling forward with the IST supporting them. The IST squad was killed trying to cross the board, the crusader was blown up half way across and the squad inside were all killed before they could get to the scurrying Tau. He out ranged me horribly where I had my firebase set up. In the end I think I killed a handful of gun drones, 2 stealth suits and a squad of Crisis suits (the mystic vs deepstrike worked well, only his crisis suits made abou 8 3+ on the first round of shooting and continued to save....until my PAGK got him into CC, but by that point it was over).

 

So I'm hoping to get some more games in this weekend, but I just can't figure out how to win with this army. Should I take more LR's and should I take the godhammer and use it as a fire base? The Tau S10 AP1 levels them. Should I try some DS'ing PAGK or maybe a Callidus? Any thoughts and advice is appreciated. I realize I'm asking how to beat a specfic army, but at this point I'm just looking for a win.

 

Sorry about the long post.

[KhorneHunter57x]

I would absolutely swap the Vindicare for a Callidus. The Callidus will make the Broadsides sweat.

 

Although I am a huge fan of Land Raiders, I would suggest that you drop the Crusader for three Rhinos for your =][=STs.

 

I would Deep Strike your GKTs

 

Just a few thoughts from a Tau veteran.

[ntgcleaner]

It seems like you had some terrible luck with your land raider... and basically the rest of your moves. My friend got me into Warhammer and he plays Tau. My first Army has been Daemonhunters. I am slowly starting to get the edge and beat him here and there. Tau is (IMO) the hardest army to kill. I have even won against the 'fast-as-hell' eldar.

 

What I would suggest is, yes, pick up another Land raider. I would even swap out the LRC for a regular Godhammer. I know you can only carry 5 GKT in it, but you may even want to deepstrike them. These Godhammers, will be able to at least make the hammeheads immobile for a bit while you get your IST's in position. After reading all the tactica and actually using this stuff, I believe having two LR's is very effective, even against rail guns. Having so many tanks means he needs to split his fire and not focus on one.

 

Try this, two LR's (both with smoke), one with 5 GKT's and one with 5-10 GK's (pack one or two with an incinerator). Two groups of 5-10 IST's, both with 2x meltas and both in two rhino's with smoke. all of this should be as little as 1150-ish pts. and everything is MOBILE. this leaves you with 350ish points to buy a callidus assassin (get an inquisitor and give him terminator armor, and replace a GKT with him) or even 7 more Termies, maybe put an incinerator on one and deep strike them all next to his broadside or crisis suits... but make sure they are close enough to move to something else when they finish those guys off. If he doesnt kit his suits with gun drones (10 points each for an extra wound and extra TL shots!) then you should definitely have no problem killing them, especially in assault. Your first move, you should move the 12" and pop smoke on EVERYTHING unless you can get them behind cover, then save the smoke. Move another 12" (by this time, hopefully you can be within assault range, 12" +2" for the assault ramp, +6" assault move, that's a 20" assault move!) and MAYBE you can get your IST's close enough to a hammerhead to use those meltas! once you pop his rail guns, he has very little to take out your LR's (maybe a missile or fusion blaster on a crisis suit or pirhannas - or an off chance of them being on the stealth suits). You should be able to walk all over him after the two hammerheads and broadside dies.

 

Remember though, this is all in theory. Take it with salt and modify my suggestions to the way you like to play.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I notice from the special weapons on the IST squads that you may benefit by concentrating the special weapons into 'like' teams.. i.e., one squad with two meltaguns, one with two flamers, one with two plasmaguns, etc. This will help the IST's have a clear focused role in the delivery of their payload against appropriate targets. Granted this is different than how I run my Battle Sisters squad, but I've found doubling up with the same special weapon on my own IST's helps significantly.

 

Honestly, against that particular Tau list (suit heavy, very markerlight light) I would drop flamers entirely and focus on ranged firepower: more plasma, grenade launchers, and psycannons. Without transports you're going to be shot before you get close enough to allow the flamers to work against the Fire Warriors, assuming you manage to get them out of their 'Fish. Your problem is the Crisis Suits, you MUST get them into hand to hand with your Terminators.. that's your best chance at wiping them. Tau have nothing resembling a power weapon and mediocre at best melee capability, but incredibly high mobility and firepower. The suits are vulnerable to power weapons, and to insta-gibbing by strength 8 or higher weaponry (like those double melta IST teams), especially if he's running without Shield Drones.

 

I think the Vindicare in this scenario is mostly wasted space.. by realigning the special weapons in the ISTs and giving them cheap transport for added mobility I think it'll serve you much better.

 

Edit: What sort of weaponry is he running on his Crisis Suits? That really affects how they play and will be used for us to give advice...

[number6]

Tau is my second army, and IMHO, a well-built Tau army is going to be extremely challenging to beat. And your nearly all-foot army won't ever be able to compete with the likes of what your opponent is bringing to the table. (It won't do well against hardly any army, sadly. :) )

 

If you want to compete, you need to mechanize. A single land raider is easy pickings for the Tau, who specialize in blasting enemy mech at range. Most armies -- DH included -- have to get close to do that. This ability and their mobility is what makes them so deadly. You have to saturate them with targets so that you can rush them. Because INP is correct in that if you can get close, you will beat the aliens in assaults.

 

I would strongly recommend an army build like this. (Although inducting IG would be at least as good.) It has components you will require to beat Tau.

 

* Two hammer units in the form of GKTs in LRCs. Although Tau can crack raiders, even they will have to get a little lucky to blow up two of them, especially with the benefits of our ancient DH smoke lajnchers making all their hits into glances.

 

* Multiple mech ISTs threats. Meltas to insta-gib battlesuits and the mobility to reach hammerheads to slag them.

 

* Multiple mech threats. With at least 4 transports and 2 raiders, you will have the ability to rush straight into his grill. You'll at least have the chance to reach him. Try and destroy 2 hammer units, or stop the ISTs? Tough choices. Either presents risks for the Tau player.

 

* Deep-strike defense. If your opponent is foolish enough to deep strike crisis suits (IMHO they should always be deployed to maximize firepower), you can make him pay for that.

 

* Improved firepower. A mech army -- especially one that inducts IG if you are so inclined -- increases its firepower as well as mobility. More shooting threats are definitely required.

 

And if you must take an assassin, definitely take the Callidus. That lady really throws a wrench into Tau plans. Redeploy a unit to begin the game, and then just pop up and destroy battlesuits without fear of retribution. Nasty nasty nasty.

[Wolf Lord Cuneglas]

Thank you all for the inputs. I'm going to give them another go this weekend and I'll post how the game went. I feel comfortable with my other armies, but DH are tough. I agree with the footsloogers no cutting it. Specializing the units does make more sense. Instead of 1 melta shot on a vehicle, it will give me 2 (with the flamer not being wasted). Tau is just so darn mobile....Thanks again for the tips, I'll let you know how it goes.

[XaClocKWorKoX]

Gk are very moblie too remember if you drop a well placed GKS 18 stormbolters shots with a psycannon shot can be very very nasty i would drop the inqu and get a GKGM with a ret run him in the LR get him up there while the GKS are making short work of whatever else can stop it. remember he is fire line you, you have to be focused

[ntgcleaner]

So I just played a Tau last weekend... Long Batrep short, I absolutely destroyed him (with help from his terrible dice). I had one LR with 10 PAGK, 1 Rhino with 6 IST's (two meltas), 6 Terminators who DSed in late in the game. The IST's took out his Hammerhead and Tank Shocked his Stealthsuits off of the table! (3d6" with jetpacks!). The Land raider came in, let the PAGKs assault his crisis suits, destroyed them. DS'ed the Termies and flamed his Kroot, made them retreat off the board, assaulted his fire warriors with the Termies and his Broadside with my remaining PAGK.

 

KP wise:

DH = 7

Tau = 0

 

Yes, He did not kill one entire unit!

 

They are beatable. I believe if he had better rolls it would have definitely been a different game (obviously). But, that just goes to show, once you play them a lot, you know what to hit and when.

[Okidus]

Those IST need Rhinos.

Also, our Vet DH player has been adding an IG Platoon to add more bodies as well as a bunch of Autocannons.