Chooser

[Grey Mage]

The reason for that was the wording... it said "may not deploy using their special rules."

 

outflank is a special rule.... so it was general enough to include it. There was alot of stuff like that in the old codex.

[Ullr Direfang]

Ummm.... there is a Imperial Guard upgrade character, Al'harm( or how ever you spell it) that has "Outflank", though i suppose it is probably tied into his rules some how (i don't have my IG codex on hand right now).

 

Al'Rahem's "Stalk the Enemy" special rule simply dictates that any unit that is part of his Infantry Platoon "must outflank". Presumably, it also enables them to do so, not unlike how Kor'sarro Khan enables dedicated transports to outflank. He does not, however, have "Outflank" as a special rule. I'm pretty confident that nobody does, since Outflank isn't a special rule, just a manuever that units with certain special rules can perform.

 

so yea, it is part of his special rule like i stated. there for outflank isn't just limited to "scout and infiltrate".i am sorry, but IMHO( yes i am doing all i can to make this clear that this is simple my opinon) if i ever see some one say that some one elses unit can't out flank in one location because a chooser is there and the unit in question also has infiltrate, i would call him/her a cheat. they are different rules, even though most typicaly one grants the other. if you really want to argue that they are the same, iw ould like to hear your veiw on jump infantry and bikes/jet bikes. for one can start running in circles with those as well.

[AdeptusDavidus]

so yea, it is part of his special rule like i stated. there for outflank isn't just limited to "scout and infiltrate".

 

My point was that "Outflank" is not a "special rule". I use quotation marks intentionally, as these are game terms that refer to specific concepts.

 

i am sorry, but IMHO( yes i am doing all i can to make this clear that this is simple my opinon) if i ever see some one say that some one elses unit can't out flank in one location because a chooser is there and the unit in question also has infiltrate, i would call him/her a cheat.

 

I think that calling someone a cheat for having a differing perception of the rules is very poor sportsmanship, and I personally rate sportsmanship far, far above any RAW/RAI argument. If I come to the table with one interpretation of a given rule, and my opponent with another, then we should find a compromise - and I'll note that I would be perfectly happy to acquiesce to an opponent's interpretation provided that opponent had simple courtesy enough to at least discuss it first.

 

Aside from the fact that I completely agree that this is the intention of the rules (a fact that I feel that I have made abundantly clear in every post I've made in this thread), you're welcome to insist on a given interpretation of the rules. This is just a game, after all, and it's a game with complex rules, which different people will approach in different ways, because the rules are not precise, and cannot be precise. Warhammer 40k tries to take into account a pretty staggering breadth of possibilities, so the rules must be complicated, and complication is the enemy of precision.

 

if you really want to argue that they are the same, iw ould like to hear your veiw on jump infantry and bikes/jet bikes. for one can start running in circles with those as well.

 

I am not arguing that they are one and the same. That has never been any component of my argument.

 

With regards to Jump Infantry, I do not understand. Are you referring to the debate over whether they count as Infantry (for the purposes of, say, Jaws of the World Wolf)? If this is the case, then the answer is that Jump Infantry are not Infantry - they are a distinct unit type. The bike/jetbike side of that same debate seems to be a little stickier, because (if I recall correctly) there are examples of other powers/rules/whatever that treat the two as distinct unit types, though I will note that in the 5th Edition rulebook, Jetbikes are not a unit type, but are a subset of the Bike unit type.

[Grey Mage]

On the bike/jetbike example its much like beasts and cavalry, or walkers and vehicles. They are in each case different things, but still the same kind of thing *IE all jetbikes are bikes, but not all bikes are jetbikes... and all walkers are vehicles, but not all vehicles are walkers*.