=I= Coming in 2010?

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

My only major curiosity is if all GK became +2/Artificer, does that mean the current PA ones are invalid, or just that they are ornate enough to count as artificer anyway.

 

 

 

Man oh man am I excited :D

[calypso2ts]

Artificer armor is essentially power armor but better created, so you could easily use current PAGK as artificer armored units.

[Dilgar]

IF we get AA then I can gladly keep the 25 points model cost and skip the transport! This would surly keep the unique GK tactics (water) around, I met a Baal Predator in a tournament last week and it outflanked me, destroying a squad of GK in a turn (my GM did avenge and eventually won the game for me :lol:)

 

Oh well, let´s wait ½ a year and then look again. I´m getting an update for my Tomb Kings this year also so I´ll have plently to do before the GK get there update.

[Gentlemanloser]

AA would be, interesting.

 

Also, possibly a gentle nudge to get more Plasma back into the game over Melta? Limit the GK Transport options (like Teleporting and the Melta Immune Storm Raven), with a boat load of 2+ Saves just asking to be Plasma'd.

[Valerian]

AA would be, interesting.

 

Articifer Armour for all Grey Knights would be interesting. I never even considered doing that.

 

V

[Magnus Thane]

Anything that underlines the 'quality' > 'quantity' edge of GK's would be great.

Some fluffy choices itemwise anti-daemon but certainly not in such a degree that in a few years we'll end up with a semi-obsolete codex again. Items that are useful longterm please! :D

[Valerian]

Anything that underlines the 'quality' > 'quantity' edge of GK's would be great.

Some fluffy choices itemwise anti-daemon but certainly not in such a degree that in a few years we'll end up with a semi-obsolete codex again. Items that are useful longterm please! :D

 

If the anti-daemon selections are optional (pay for them when you need/want them), then it'll work just fine. The problem comes when you give them integrated weapons/abilities/etc. that are bundled in with them (which must be paid for, of course) that are specific to defeating a single opponent.

 

Instead make the anti-daemon choices part of the menu, so the Grey Knight commander can take it when appropriate, but go with other choices when they are not needed (fighting Renegade Space Marines, for example).

 

V

[Gentlemanloser]

I'm still not sure how our anti Daemon stuff will work.

 

None of our much vaunted (and still heavily rumoured) anti Psychic powers/wargear will work at all versus Daemons.

 

It would have to be a lot as heck 'Anti Units with Daemon rule' stuff, which will be at odds with our Anti Psychic Stuff (which we should still have to shut down all the Foul Daemon worshiping...)

 

It still think it was a stupid, stupid, massively stupid, idea to make all the Daemonic powers not Psychic powers. Daemons should just have been immune to perils, or not have to roll tests...

[boreas]

An "anti-daemon" edge could easily be included while still helping out against other armies. All GKs getting a 5+ save vs Psychic AND daemonic powers. NFW, psycannons and incinerators ignore invulnerable save. Et voilà! A credible "anti-daemon" force that also has its benefits vs other armies. Give them Artificer armour, put the Justicar at 35 pts, up to 2 GKs can exchange their BFW for a psycannon (10 pts, because it loses both the NFW and the stormbolter) or for an Incinerator (free). This would make them competitive vs most codice and would keep an "elite" feel.

 

Imagine, though, if our GKTs can take the "new" Storm Shields (lets say, for 5 pts) with their NFW. They would absolutely rock! St6 power weapons that ignore inv. save yet get a 3+ one in return. I can hear other marines crying when we go through their vaunted assault termies like a hot knife through butter...

 

Oh well, I still have to keep dreaming for a few months!

 

Phil

[Justicar Valius]

^^^ the terminators with SS would be uber awseome.

[Gentlemanloser]

All GKs getting a 5+ save vs Psychic AND daemonic powers

 

Like a version of the SW Runic Armour (thier AA). That gives a 5+ Save versus Psychic Powers.

 

Now if we got that, with an added clause of 'any shooting attack by a unit with the Dameon rule' (As there are no logner any Daemonic 'Powers'), then we're golden.

 

Or just a global 5+ Invulnerable Save.

 

Doesn't protect us from the Masques Lash, or Boon of Mutation. Which would suck.

 

I've no doubt well get updated to the new Stats, 3++ SS and Proper A Cannons. Would *love* for us to get cheap (under 30 points) access to new SS (or not have to trade the NFW for a TH to get one).

 

Would also like (no sternguard) Psycannon Bolts included as Standard, alongside AA, for AAGK and GKT. :P

 

Then we're getting somewhere.

 

The idea to give the Psycannon two shooting modes would be a very nice touch. Flesh that all out with some new Units and HQs/Characters (Chappy, Justicar Darth Maul, and *something* Fast...) and I'd be a happy camper. ;)

 

Still, it's going to take some careful wording to get us the Anti-Daemonic protection, and I'm going to laugh if it lets us nullify the Avatars Molten Spear chuck! :)

[Uncle Mel]

Doesn't protect us from the Masques Lash, or Boon of Mutation. Which would suck.

 

I think we should be nigh immune to Daemonic powers, like a 3+ save against daemon powers

[boreas]

That would be too strong. Fluff should be somewhat reflect in gameplay, but game mechanics should over-rule. The same way, lets says, as SMs aren't nearly as strong in the game as they are in the fluff. Plus we'd end up paying a premium for each GK for something that's not useful vs other armies.

 

Phil

[Uncle Mel]

Yeah suppose your right, it's probably better to extend their current abilities to cover not only psychic powers but daemonic powers as well.

[Gentlemanloser]

And we're back to the problem of how to do that, as they have no powers...

 

It's all shooting attacks. /sigh

[boreas]

That one is fairly easy... As mentioned above, a 5+ save when targeted psychic powers or daemonic gifts (basically all that's on pages 73-76 in C: CD).

 

Phil

[Uncle Mel]

yeah since all but one daemon is ld 10, the aegis is pretty much useless as well

[Gentlemanloser]

There aren't any more Daemonic Gifts though.

 

They're shooting attacks. And if you give us something to stop Daemonic shooting attacks, that will also work for (probably the only other example?) the Avatars Melta Spear.

 

Edit: Just for clarification, I don't think anything in our codex will specifically reference another Codex. While it might say "anything with the Daemon USR" I doubt it will say any shooting attacks form page XX of C:CD. OR even call them Daemonic Gifts, as that references the other Codex.

[Uncle Mel]

There aren't any more Daemonic Gifts though.

 

They're shooting attacks. And if you give us something to stop Daemonic shooting attacks, that will also work for (probably the only other example?) the Avatars Melta Spear.

 

I don't see any problem with that

 

Edit: Just for clarification, I don't think anything in our codex will specifically reference another Codex. While it might say "anything with the Daemon USR" I doubt it will say any shooting attacks form page XX of C:CD. OR even call them Daemonic Gifts, as that references the other Codex.

 

I don't think such specific references will be made either, but I am sure they will give us anti-daemon/chaos/psyker stuff, how, I don't know and don't actually care as long as it works

[Gentlemanloser]

LoL! Too True.

 

I'm just concious it's going to be a, difficult, problem, and hope they don't fudge it (or forget about the Daemon Codex when redesigning all our anti Psycher stuff!).

 

This also includes *all* Daemons having Eternal Warrior, making our Force Weapons redundant versus them. But I doubt they'll make our Force Weapons ignore EW, when we get our Wargear updated.

 

Maybe another USR where we ignore EW on anything with the Daemon USR. But this will start to get cluncky.

[boreas]

I'm not sure I follow you, Gentlemanloser. The Codex: Chaos Daemons clearly lists "Demonic gifts". Pages 73-76 describe the Daemonic gifts and each unit entry (p. 78-87) lists which "gifts" it has. For example, Pavane of Slaanesh and Bolt of Tzeentch are clearly "demonic gifts" that would target a GK unit so that it would have a chance to "cancel" it on a 5+. If it's not canceled, the "gift" (say, BoT) proceeds as usual (roll to hit, roll to wound, make cove save if applies). Some gifts, we wouldn't be able to cancel (for example Fury of Khorne that give the Rending USR to the unit) because it doesn't target the GK.

 

Phil

[Gentlemanloser]

'Daemonic Gifts' isn't a USR, and is Codex specific.

 

I just can't see anything in our Codex specifically refering to something from another.

 

(I also don't see Inducted Units, if they remain, referencing another Codex anymore as well)

 

The new Codex will be like everone elses, and be stand alone (In my opinion).

[stoopicus]

Agree. Making a codex reference another codex adds inherent rules fragility as one or the other fall out of date, something they currently seem to avoid.

[skarn]

It's probably not going to happen, but I'd love to see Psyk-out grenades available to GKT and PAGK squads... that, plus AA, plus NFW = best cc units in 40k.

[boreas]

I still think it's the best way to give us anti-daemon without raising the cost. A standard anti-psychic/anti-daemon, unlike a 5++ save that would not only raise the basic cost but also make the GKT less useful. Of course, cross-referencing is never optimal, but I'm not sure codice are to see as much change in the future as they did going from 3rd/4th ed. to 5th ed.

 

Anyways, did anything new come out at Game's Day France?

 

Phil