=I= Coming in 2010?

[Justicar Valius]

Its been silly for years on the GK are next! DE next! (the latter more often IMHO). The DE codex is what 12 years old? GW target audience is a year or so older thant it. That's stupid.

[DarkKnightCuron]

Its been silly for years on the GK are next! DE next! (the latter more often IMHO). The DE codex is what 12 years old? GW target audience is a year or so older thant it. That's stupid.

 

Maybe some of GW's employees are just as lazy as some of the game's players? Ha!

[chaplain belisarius]

it is so silly and daft-guns n roses actually finished chinese democracy, surely gw can do new GK, SOB and DE???

 

^_^

[ArmouredWing]

Are you sure another company can actually deliver the same style, quality and quantity of models that GW does? Do you really think they wouldn't slap any smaller model company with a truckload of IP suits? That would be like saying Marvel shouldn't have publicized Iron Man 2 almost a year before it came out, because some other company could have made a similar film. I don't pretend to know how GW is run. Maybe, maybe, there are some serious studies of how miniature games should be marketed. Maybe they really sell a whole lot more this way. But I learned something from finance class: less money now is usually better that more money later on. The way I see it, the alienate a whole lot of their customers. Those customers don't go out and buy a different model-base game. Why, because their is no other model-based game of WH40k/WFB's quality. Still, when the best-quality in an entertainment type is not good enough, people move on to a different hobby. Already, in my area, 4 WH-carrying stores have closed down. Most others are cutting back on the GW sections (replacing space with role-playing, CCG and boardgames). Heck, the closest hobby store won't carry GW at all because (and I quote the manager) "We don't like being strangled by a company that sells games for rich kids. Heck, I don't have enough money to play that game myself..."

 

Last month, DE and GK players had some fun playing "Codex Race 2010". The Rumormongers had their time. But this week, if you read around there are a lot of unhappy people. This could have been easily avoided and I see this a yet another GW fumble.

 

Phil

I'm not disagreeing with you Boreas, hell, I've got family working in GW and I still think GW costs way to much for what amount to airfix models but what I am saying is that because GW are expensive they will attract the attention of companies who are willing to forge their products.

 

I remember a few years ago GW tried (and succeeded if memory serves me right) to close down a couterfitting operation somewhere in eastern europe that were producing GW fakes for the western market. Now, if I was presented with the opportunity of buying a box of SoB's for, say £25 and a box for £10 which would I buy? It's an obvious answer though god knows what poisonous rubbish they'd put into them to keep the costs down. Take those potentially hazardous minis and place them in the hands of one of the younger gamers who, lo and behold, suffers the consequences of handling toxic material and suddenly without realising it GW has a load of bad press about killing off their customers!!!

 

Ok, I know that's a bit of a far fetched example but it's not far off the mark. We know GW protects it's IP with extreme prejudice where it finds people making money illegally off their backs and a partial result of this is the lack of future product info to it's customers. It sucks the big one but there's nothing we can do about it.

 

Equally though the rumourmill has it's place in the sin bin for this one. No one expected Daemons, the majority were expecting GK's and I thought DE were going to be the next in the queue. The moral though is that no matter how good the rumours were from any one source previously bears no weight on how reliable they'll be in the future. 'Harry' over at Warseer could well have been told that GK's were next or even seen them on the design table but we know that Warseer have been seriously stung before by announcing something only to find they've been 'punked' by the guys in GW. As it is we know Daemons are getting minis in August, no mention of a codex mind and beyond that is anyone's guess...

 

...and for my guess? We'll know more come games day '10. It's the usual forum for GW to announce something big, by that time WFB's new ed should have been released with the new box set (any guesses on that anyone? -_- ) and 40K should be in the frame for some autumn goodness by that point.

[Gentlemanloser]

1) Nothing is being pushed back since nothing was ever announced in the first place

 

Technically, that's correct. (And I do know yours was a light hearted point! :P)

 

It's still galling that (and while I know how much it sucks not to have minis to represent new units in your Dex, TWC, Stormraven, for examples) a potential release slot is now being taken up by a mini release, when it could have been used to release one of two codexes that are by all accounts ready to roll.

 

Maybe GK aren't as close to done as has been rumoured. Maybe the DE weren't already shipped to the printers.

 

But the slot was there, and was open for them.

[WolfLordRadulfr]

I don't know bout the rest of you but some reason seeing that new daemon minis will be out in August makes me think new GK DH or Inquistion is closer then we think :)

[Bishoujo]

I wouldn't automatically assume that Daemon's getting new models in August would "push back" (I use the term loosely, because you can't really push back something that hasn't actually been announced) GK, DE or any other codex. But, who knows? We'll just wait and see.

 

Also, I know it's super vague, but GW posted this on Monday (after they announced Daemons):

 

In fact there are a couple of announcements coming soon (very soon) that you'll only hear about through the newsletter - I really would recommend you sign yourself up.

 

Words like "soon" are subjective, but most everything in this forum is - so I figured I'd quote for those who hadn't seen it.

[WolfLordRadulfr]

True but I like being optimistic tho yea it be great if GK or DE were next in aug maybe GW is just making final adjustments on either dex and don't wanna release any info yet til the are 100%. Which ever comes first have to admit with WHFB 8th coming out this summer and all the manpower it is taking to insure a timely launch. Besides id rather wait a few extra months give them more time for play testing and such.

[Brother_Kaelgrim]

Well I just got a newsletter on the 2010 Citadel Miniatures range book coming out or somesuch. If there are several announcements being hinted at, I think this and the Daemon announcement are just tastes of whats to come. Still plenty of time for DE or GK.

[WolfLordRadulfr]

Well I just got a newsletter on the 2010 Citadel Miniatures range book coming out or somesuch. If there are several announcements being hinted at, I think this and the Daemon announcement are just tastes of whats to come. Still plenty of time for DE or GK.

Exacting wouldn't mind waiting a few extra months gives me more time to save up for my next army project anyway.

[Bishoujo]

As an aside, good for those chaos daemons guys. They have several (maybe the most of any codex) units in their codex that don't have models.

 

Hell, anything they release that isn't Adeptus Astartes is something I can get behind. I mean, I understand that Space Marines + Variants = more sales than everything else they do, combined. So, I don't fault GW for it. But, it's always nice to see something new for the Inquisition, Xenos or even those dirty Daemons.

 

Also, my underatanding is that Chaos Daemons are the 'leafblower' of Warhammer Fantasy, so not a bad business decision for GW.

 

Plus it will be nice to have some new Daemon models to choose from. Chop em up and make em dead and stick em on my Grey Knight bases.

[panbient]

Last month, DE and GK players had some fun playing "Codex Race 2010". The Rumormongers had their time. But this week, if you read around there are a lot of unhappy people. This could have been easily avoided and I see this a yet another GW fumble.

 

i think this points to a bigger issue of players thinking that because they invested some time and money into a product they somehow deserve a say or knowledge about the future of the company.

 

we're customers, not shareholders.

[Brother-Captain Laen]

It's all wishful thinking. While I do wish they would release all the books at once with each new edition.. I also understand that that would be bad from a business perspective. Things will be released in their own time. And I feel that all the Grey Knight and Sisters of Battle boxes being removed is a very very good sign of the future of the Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle.

 

One thing I think we all need to understand a little better is that we will get a new codex. It just might take awhile. Look how long Tyranids waited. Look how long Blood Angels waited. Same with Space Wolves.

 

Its okay to get excited for a new codex but I just think that people in general need to not be so upset when another army codex comes out.. be happy for people that play those armies and patiently await for yours to be re-released. Hell.. look at the Dark Eldar codex.. Holy god! I would hate to have to work with that... we are at least blessed with two codices that are still pretty damn good when used correctly and can put the fear of the emperor in almost any xenos or traitors out there.

 

Plus we have an amazingly unique model range. I weep when I think about what players of White Scars have to deal with.... their fluff is CC oriented fast attack.. and they are stuck with codex marine bikes.. very unfluffy if you ask me.

 

Anyway, be happy. Smile more. Be patient. And appreciate all the attention we got a few years back that gave us what we have today.

 

Just my two cents..

[boreas]

i think this points to a bigger issue of players thinking that because they invested some time and money into a product they somehow deserve a say or knowledge about the future of the company.

 

we're customers, not shareholders.

 

I disagree here... As a customer that bought a product, I can (and do) expect the product to be fully functionnal. The Codex: DH is clearly not functionnal. If you had a car that ran a maximum of 40 mph, you'd expect the dealer to fix it for some fee. In the same way, I expect to be able to go out and buy a new codex to have my army functionnal. Being a customer doesn't mean the company can sell you something and then run away with your money.

 

Its okay to get excited for a new codex but I just think that people in general need to not be so upset when another army codex comes out.. be happy for people that play those armies and patiently await for yours to be re-released.

 

That's true, but please, GW, tell us. I'd really love to know my codex is next, but just knowing which one is would be a blessing. Even better, the next two. Building a WH40k army is not something one does over the weekend. It takes time and planning If Codex: DH comes out in 5 months, I might buy a LR, a few GKs and make sure I've got a few things done to use it right away. I'll fill out the new models as they come out. But if I know it's Codex: Necron coming out in 5 months, it might be that extra Monolith or those 12 scarab swarms I'll paint. Right now, I can work a lot on an army (let's say, my Tau, for example), but have something else come out "by surprise".

 

Phil

[Brother-Captain Laen]

That's true, but please, GW, tell us. I'd really love to know my codex is next, but just knowing which one is would be a blessing. Even better, the next two. Building a WH40k army is not something one does over the weekend. It takes time and planning If Codex: DH comes out in 5 months, I might buy a LR, a few GKs and make sure I've got a few things done to use it right away. I'll fill out the new models as they come out. But if I know it's Codex: Necron coming out in 5 months, it might be that extra Monolith or those 12 scarab swarms I'll paint. Right now, I can work a lot on an army (let's say, my Tau, for example), but have something else come out "by surprise".

 

Valid point. But at what point does that line of thought stop? The next three codices, the next four? I would like to know as much as the next guy, but they have reasons for keeping stuff locked tight. And while it does upset me a little.. I can't get too angry at the fact that all the rumor spreading helps to build hype and excitement on their products.

 

The main thing that bugs me is that with new codices comes the new rules which may invalidate your older models and units. I'm not someone that can idly toss money at a product that I might not even be able to use in the next few months. So, I wait.

[panbient]

I disagree here... As a customer that bought a product, I can (and do) expect the product to be fully functionnal. The Codex: DH is clearly not functionnal. If you had a car that ran a maximum of 40 mph, you'd expect the dealer to fix it for some fee. In the same way, I expect to be able to go out and buy a new codex to have my army functionnal. Being a customer doesn't mean the company can sell you something and then run away with your money.

 

i still own a VCR. remember those? how about a Neo-Geo Pocket? HSAC music discs?

 

unless there's some kind of long term contract that i somehow missed with my copy of the WH codex there's nothing that says GW owes anything to its customers. it's good business sense to do so, but they don't actually have to, nor do they owe any customer any sort of explanation. there's nothing anywhere saying that 'GW guarantees that the product you buy today will still be competitively viable in a decade'.

 

as it stands your product IS fully functional. you bought miniatures that were meant to be painted and that could be played in a game. did your minis melt? does paint no longer stick to them? do the current rules somehow no longer apply? your purchases may no longer be as competitive as they once were but that does not diminish the value of the product you chose to purchase.

 

one of the first things i was told by friends and read about online in regards to running an Inquisition army - only do it because you like the minis more than the game. hell, i had a teacher in college from Wales who swore he would kick any of our rear ends if we ever started playing 40k for any reason besides the minis. from the look of things he was right.

[Brother-Captain Laen]

WH and DH codices are still very very competitive. What other codex out there can make use of four different armies? Having the space marine and imp guard codices come out helps us just as much as it helps them. Don't forget that we can use their codices for troops we induct. Its the benefit of being part of the inquisition. To be honest.. I kind of hope we never get our codices remade in fear of losing that ability to mix the armies up into one force. It seems that recently GW is all about forgetting past fluff and just making things up willy nilly.

 

The power in our codex is not in our models alone.. it is in the synergy of our rules with the rules of other codices.. I just wish I was one of those tactical geniuses that could build a list and play it at the level it could be played. I mean.. mixing the forces and rules is devastating! Which is why GW does not let any army do it.... ohh yeah.. except us.

[Oiad]

It's true that some of us enjoy the induction rules but to many others that doesn't sit right. Any codex army should be completely self-reliant and competitive on the basis of it's own units. Relying on another codex armies to pack the punch for your core army is outrageous. No other army has to do that at the moment.

 

On the flipside, SoB armies can still be competitive without inducting. It's Pure GK players that are really helpless at the moment. Do you think a 'pure GK' player wants outside help from other army units? I'm not one of them but at least I can understand their point-of-view.

 

Personally, I don't mind whether DE, Necrons or =][= come out first. As others have pointed out, I collect DH/WH because of their fluff and models not because I'm overly-competitive. Looking at the rules so far the later the MEQ armies have been released in the 5th so far the more 'liberal' (though not necessarilly OTT) the makers have become with the rules and the profiles. If this continues to be the case then I don't mind if GK's are even last in line.

 

EDIT: Grammer

[Bishoujo]

i still own a VCR. remember those? how about a Neo-Geo Pocket? HSAC music discs?

 

unless there's some kind of long term contract that i somehow missed with my copy of the WH codex there's nothing that says GW owes anything to its customers. it's good business sense to do so, but they don't actually have to, nor do they owe any customer any sort of explanation. there's nothing anywhere saying that 'GW guarantees that the product you buy today will still be competitively viable in a decade'.

 

as it stands your product IS fully functional. you bought miniatures that were meant to be painted and that could be played in a game. did your minis melt? does paint no longer stick to them? do the current rules somehow no longer apply? your purchases may no longer be as competitive as they once were but that does not diminish the value of the product you chose to purchase.

 

I think you are COMPLETELY missing the point. The argument you are making is just silly. And your examples actually go against your point. No one in here is saying "Hey, I bought your Daemonhunters Codex and now it sucks - send me a new one!" Were that the case, then your argument would be valid. That would be just as absurd as someone asking Sony to send them a free Blu-ray player because they bought a Sony VCR 10 years ago.

 

No one is asking that. We are asking for a new version, to BUY. Sure, the Daemonhunters Codex is still functional, just as a VCR is still functional - but in the world of DVD's and Blu-ray's, a VCR just can't do the things that the other guys can. That's the same situation our Codex is in. We want a new one - to purchase. I'm fairly confident that the company you bought your VCR from now makes DVD and Blu-ray players. We just want to catch up with the rest of the pack. And we will, eventually.

 

 

And while it does upset me a little.. I can't get too angry at the fact that all the rumor spreading helps to build hype and excitement on their products.

 

I feel the complete opposite about this actually. I think that the rumors cause just as much frustration and disappointment as they do excitement and hype. You want to know what causes excitement and hype? How about GW announcing a codex... They said "Incoming! Blood Angels!" and for the next 3 months, every 40K Website, Podcast and YouTube channel was talking Blood Angels non stop. People were chatting about it all the time on various forums and frothing at the mouth for the new models. The crowd at my local GW the day of Blood Angels release was crazy! THAT was excitement and hype.

[WolfLordRadulfr]

I feel the complete opposite about this actually. I think that the rumors cause just as much frustration and disappointment as they do excitement and hype.

 

I can't agree more with you on that Rumor mill is a double edged sword in that way. But when GW puts on a incoming newsletter for which either codex is next all the hype true gamer needs.

[Marmande]

Something to keep us sane for another few days: Some extensive rumors about the upcoming codex

 

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/295597.page

[Inquisitor Fox]

Those are indeed some nifty rumors there! Sounds like I do want to try and get the last 8 PAGK I need to get my two squads from 6 to 10...

[hmk17]

Interesting if true...

[boreas]

Could you give the rumors to those of us who are Dakka-deprived at work? :cuss For some (good!) reasons, my filter at work lets B&C work, but not Dakka or Warseer...

 

Phil

[Inquisitor Fox]

Could you give the rumors to those of us who are Dakka-deprived at work? :) For some (good!) reasons, my filter at work lets B&C work, but not Dakka or Warseer...

 

Phil

Ask and ye shall receive, for behold! The magic of copy/paste!

 

I got this info during a three way discussion with a buddy of mine and a friend of his...who's involved in game design. People will refute these "rumours" and thats cool, take this with a grain of salt if you wish. You Grey Knight fans though, I know you want news and I'm here to tell you that there's hope.

 

I wasnt really paying attention to the "Inquisition" part. Instead I mainly payed attention to the Grey Knight info. Just a couple of little tidbits though...

 

-Allies rules are indeed gone. No more mystics for you guard players. In fact...none for anybody.

 

-Inquisitorial stormtroopers brought in-line with Guard ST's.

 

-Somehow, assassins cannot be used in Grey Knight armies.

 

-Inquisitor's psychic powers have been boosted significantly, they're really powerful characters now able to wreak havoc BUT they're pretty easy to kill still...still human w/T3. They're really extreme with the ability to rival some of the Special Characters out there in power but with the survivability of Guardsmen with 4+ invuln's. You can still get terminator armour for them but you TRADE your 4+ invuln for Terminator armour for 2+/5++. Basically, you cannot make a tank out of them. Mystics are GONE BTW. I was surprised at this. Daemonhunter's cannont shoot down any old deepstriking thing anymore.

 

Now, where I was REALLY interested, and kept the guy talking for a while was with the Grey Knights. I hope I got most of this right, I never wrote any down but the jist of the conversation is here...

 

-"Shrouding" is now as-per night fighting rules. Infantry only gain effect.

 

-I wasnt able to get any info on the bonuses against daemons, but the "without number" rules are still there for core units and changed just a little bit. The rule isnt the same but it still represents how Grey Knight daemon/chaos drop sites (yes chaos lesser daemons are included) are normally highly infested and there is indeed a problem that warrents them being there.

 

-No Changes to Grey Knight Weaponry other than stated below. Incinerators are the same, Psycannons are same except for now they're simply Assault Weapons.

 

-ALL Grey Knights are able to use their SB's in CC now. They also get their charge bonus.

 

-Nemesis Weapons on power armoured knights are str 6 still, but now RENDING. Justicar loses his power weapon status and is now just Rending with an add'l attack for his SGT status

 

-The Generic big commander, Grand Master (but with name change), his Nemesis is not simply a Force Weapon, BUT "Demonic Nemesis" rules state that it can Kill Daemons like a Force Weapon can kill non-EW multi-wound Models.

 

-Terminator Nemesis weapons are still power weapons, but keep in mind...they can use their stormbolters now in CC.

 

-Storm Sheilds brought in line with SM codex. Terminators can trade SB's for Sheilds for +5pts. Nemesis' can be traded for T-Hamm for free....wierd.

 

-Storm Ravens are a Heavy support Choice. StormRavens are able to get Scout somehow, but not in their selection. Maybe another Special Character or some Grand Master skill or peice of Wargear or something allows it. No other Scouting or Infiltration availiable in the army. Deepstriking only.

 

-Dreadnoughts now an Elite Choice, ONLY elites though. Psychic Upgrade availiable but at two levels, think Epistolary/Codicier. (of course, since every Grey Knight is supposed to be a Psycher)

 

-LR's, now out of the HS slot, Dedicated only now A-la, blood angels. No rhino's, chimera's or razorbacks for Grey Knights still.

 

-Terminators are Elite OR HQ Retinue still...same as before. Of course this all enables 3xstormraven/Dreadnought and 2xTermi squads at the same time, but you're paying some steep cost in points.

 

-In a strange twist, PA Grey Knights in the FA selection slot can now have jump packs. Divine Intervention as well. They can still deepstrike via teleportation instead however. Dunno (forgot to ask) if Divine Intervention will apply to this deepstriking or not. It would make sense I suppose...possibly giving you a reason to have a choice between JP's(advantage in Stormraven) or deep strike (advantage to deepstriking below)

 

-Brother Captain Stern is MUCH like Mephiston. Powerful Psyker, more than normal wounds for a character(either 4or5), Non-IC, T5, 2+/4++, His "RR power" is now a psychic ability turning into a sort of "Warptime" allowing him to RR his hits/wounds/saves/Ld/Ect but with no bonus for the enemy like last time. I suppose thats because it can be nullified now. His price is right around Mephiston level. His "Demonic Nemesis" rules also extend to ANY IC. Basically, his Nemesis can still Slay Eternal Warriors of any type. They're really plugging this Character...he's the "big daddy" in the codex. Sort of a prodigy of Grey Knighthood that even surpasses the Grand Masters in skill.

 

-"Holocaust". No more "unit" casting for the terminators...only skillful characters can use this one. Can be cast during shooting AND CC if the character is able to throw two powers a turn. Essentially, its an incinerator blast with a 3"+d3 that hits FRIEND AND FOE. AP4, no Cover, No Invuln.

 

-Sgt Types can be upgraded for psychic abilities too (apparently, they "focus" the squad's psychic abilities like a lens), if they die, no more Phychics for the squad. RR's to hit for unit. This to hit can be for CC OR for shooting. I found out about it when I asked if Purgation squads were still availiable and if they did anything to make them better. He responded with this, five possible weapon upgrades, and the fact that cost went down for the upgrades just a bit to make them more useful. Speaking of that, upgrading incinerators and psycannons sounds like GW realises that you GIVE UP Nemesis weapons for these options...the cost for the weapon trade isnt nearly as much.

 

-Also, there was something about "Decent of Angels" for deepstriking units. He didnt mention the exact name of the ability, but apparently, Grey Knights are as adept at teleporting as BA's are with Deepstriking JP's.

 

He talked a little more about how the BA codex was a sort of "test bed" for some abilities that this codex was going to have. They look alot alike but the basic troops here are better...and the point costs reflect it. This army will STILL be very elite and small. But Psychics, characters, and speed with stormravens is "off the chain".

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/05/19 16:10:43