=I= Coming in 2010?

[kiwitexansfan]

Im going with August. You can slap me if im wrong, but its what beasts of war say, an there pretty reliable.

I'd love that, but so close GW should have lifted a bit of the curtain about the GK's incomming.

 

Especially as I feel that GK's are high on most people's "Cool" list so if they'd come out with good rules and shiny models they would be an almost garanteed sales hit.

 

It's not to late, but august is getting to be more and more unlikely..

 

I was speaking to Jervis at Games Day a while ago, and he told me 'We love surprises.' Just because they have been hopelessly inept at keeping anything under wraps recently doesn't mean that they can't...

 

And if there is any force who's arrival should be sudden and unexpected it should be the GK.

[Valerian]

Thanks INP,

 

It's nice that after 1000 posts in this thread that we've finally got some actual rumors. I had almost given up on trying to keep up with this thread, but it looks like the patience has possibly paid off.

 

Taking all these rumors below with a grain of salt, of course, I'll provide a few comments.

 

I got this info during a three way discussion with a buddy of mine and a friend of his...who's involved in game design. People will refute these "rumours" and thats cool, take this with a grain of salt if you wish. You Grey Knight fans though, I know you want news and I'm here to tell you that there's hope.

 

I wasnt really paying attention to the "Inquisition" part. Instead I mainly payed attention to the Grey Knight info. Just a couple of little tidbits though...

 

-Allies rules are indeed gone. No more mystics for you guard players. In fact...none for anybody.

 

Everyone figured that Allies would go away, so no surprise there. This is probably for the best, and will prevent possible future "abuses".

 

-Inquisitorial stormtroopers brought in-line with Guard ST's.

 

That's also good. It was unacceptable that the Storm Troopers of the Inquisition were less capable than those of the Guard.

 

-Somehow, assassins cannot be used in Grey Knight armies.

 

Meh. No big deal to me.

 

-Inquisitor's psychic powers have been boosted significantly, they're really powerful characters now able to wreak havoc BUT they're pretty easy to kill still...still human w/T3. They're really extreme with the ability to rival some of the Special Characters out there in power but with the survivability of Guardsmen with 4+ invuln's. You can still get terminator armour for them but you TRADE your 4+ invuln for Terminator armour for 2+/5++. Basically, you cannot make a tank out of them.

 

Sounds good to me. Also seems to fit the fluff well - Psychically powerful, but nothing special physically.

 

Now, where I was REALLY interested, and kept the guy talking for a while was with the Grey Knights. I hope I got most of this right, I never wrote any down but the jist of the conversation is here...

 

-"Shrouding" is now as-per night fighting rules. Infantry only gain effect.

 

Makes sense to me. Nice to align it with Night Fighting, and only fair that it applies to just Infantry.

 

-I wasnt able to get any info on the bonuses against daemons, but the "without number" rules are still there for core units and changed just a little bit. The rule isnt the same but it still represents how Grey Knight daemon/chaos drop sites (yes chaos lesser daemons are included) are normally highly infested and there is indeed a problem that warrents them being there.

 

Not sure about this one. Will have to see how this is implemented. If not done well it could screw up gameplay.

 

-No Changes to Grey Knight Weaponry other than stated below. Incinerators are the same, Psycannons are same except for now they're simply Assault Weapons.

 

Okay, sounds good. Might screw with 36" range Psycannon on Terminators though (that was always nice). If Psycannon have a single stat-line and are always Assault Weapons now, I wonder what their range will be (hopefully at least 24" to match up with the Storm Bolters - it will be super annoying if they stay at 18").

 

-ALL Grey Knights are able to use their SB's in CC now. They also get their charge bonus.

 

Big improvement here. This is exactly what I did for True Grit in my own Fan-Based Grey Knights codex that I made a few months back. Treating Storm Bolters as pistols for PAGK and GKT will make every Grey Knight much more effective in close combat. Win!

 

-Nemesis Weapons on power armoured knights are str 6 still, but now RENDING. Justicar loses his power weapon status and is now just Rending with an add'l attack for his SGT status

 

I don't like the loss of the Justicar's Power Weapon, but with everyone's weapon now Rending it will more than make up for the loss. Honestly, with the new True Grit rule just above, a PAGK squad will be quite nasty on the attack (including the ability to damage vehicles fairly reliably).

 

-The Generic big commander, Grand Master (but with name change), his Nemesis is not simply a Force Weapon, BUT "Demonic Nemesis" rules state that it can Kill Daemons like a Force Weapon can kill non-EW multi-wound Models.

 

That'll be a nice capability that is specifically anti-Daemon (and helps offset the Eternal Warrior spam within the Chaos Daemons codex).

 

-Terminator Nemesis weapons are still power weapons, but keep in mind...they can use their stormbolters now in CC.

 

Essentially 4 "Relic Blade" attacks each on the charge - Win!

 

-Storm Sheilds brought in line with SM codex. Terminators can trade SB's for Sheilds for +5pts. Nemesis' can be traded for T-Hamm for free....wierd.

 

Pretty much the same thing that I did in my homemade codex, too.

 

-Storm Ravens are a Heavy support Choice. StormRavens are able to get Scout somehow, but not in their selection. Maybe another Special Character or some Grand Master skill or peice of Wargear or something allows it. No other Scouting or Infiltration availiable in the army. Deepstriking only.

 

Figured they would go into Heavy Support. Interested in the possibility of a Scout Move. Would be nice to have the option to forward deploy or to Outflank as needed, so we'll see what it is that might grant that option.

 

-Dreadnoughts now an Elite Choice, ONLY elites though. Psychic Upgrade availiable but at two levels, think Epistolary/Codicier. (of course, since every Grey Knight is supposed to be a Psyker)

 

Figured this would happen, too. Nice to have the Psychic upgrade option for our Dreadnoughts - an expected addition based on the Librarian Furiosos of the Blood Angels.

 

-LR's, now out of the HS slot, Dedicated only now A-la, blood angels. No rhino's, chimera's or razorbacks for Grey Knights still.

 

Thats nice, as it'll free up the Heavy Support slots.

 

-Terminators are Elite OR HQ Retinue still...same as before. Of course this all enables 3xstormraven/Dreadnought and 2xTermi squads at the same time, but you're paying some steep cost in points.

 

Will be very surprised if our Terminators continue to act as a "true Retinue" for our Independent Characters. The Retinue/Bodyguard rule is still in the main rulebook, but that option has been removed from most 5th Edition codices. I honestly didn't expect that it would stay in. Nice surprise is this proves to be true.

 

-In a strange twist, PA Grey Knights in the FA selection slot can now have jump packs. Divine Intervention as well. They can still deepstrike via teleportation instead however. Dunno (forgot to ask) if Divine Intervention will apply to this deepstriking or not. It would make sense I suppose...possibly giving you a reason to have a choice between JP's(advantage in Stormraven) or deep strike (advantage to deepstriking below)

 

I didn't expect Jump Packs, but it isn't a big deal to me. I'll just stick with Teleportation (or Stormravens!). Would be nice if we get Heroic or Divine Intervention from a Teleport now - that would make the Fast Attack selection option a little more attractive (although still risky unless we get some options for Teleport Homers and/or Locator Beacons and/or something like Descent of Angels that helps us teleport more accurately).

 

-Brother Captain Stern is MUCH like Mephiston. Powerful Psyker, more than normal wounds for a character(either 4or5), Non-IC, T5, 2+/4++, His "RR power" is now a psychic ability turning into a sort of "Warptime" allowing him to RR his hits/wounds/saves/Ld/Ect but with no bonus for the enemy like last time. I suppose thats because it can be nullified now. His price is right around Mephiston level. His "Demonic Nemesis" rules also extend to ANY IC. Basically, his Nemesis can still Slay Eternal Warriors of any type. They're really plugging this Character...he's the "big daddy" in the codex. Sort of a prodigy of Grey Knighthood that even surpasses the Grand Masters in skill.

 

Sweet. It'll be nice to have a heavy hitter Special Character on the order of the toughest models of the recent 5th Edition codices. Stern really wasn't worth including (my opinion) in the past. It'll be nice to have a nasty version of Stern.

 

-"Holocaust". No more "unit" casting for the terminators...only skillful characters can use this one. Can be cast during shooting AND CC if the character is able to throw two powers a turn. Essentially, its an incinerator blast with a 3"+d3 that hits FRIEND AND FOE. AP4, no Cover, No Invuln.

 

Sounds good.

 

-Sgt Types can be upgraded for psychic abilities too (apparently, they "focus" the squad's psychic abilities like a lens), if they die, no more Psychics for the squad. RR's to hit for unit. This to hit can be for CC OR for shooting.

 

This is also something that I included in my fan-based codex (maybe someone stole some of my ideas? If so, that's cool with me).

 

I found out about it when I asked if Purgation squads were still availiable and if they did anything to make them better. He responded with this, five possible weapon upgrades, and the fact that cost went down for the upgrades just a bit to make them more useful. Speaking of that, upgrading incinerators and psycannons sounds like GW realises that you GIVE UP Nemesis weapons for these options...the cost for the weapon trade isnt nearly as much.

 

Nice that the "upgrades" are cheaper (to make up for the loss of NFW and a better True Grit now).

 

-Also, there was something about "Decent of Angels" for deepstriking units. He didnt mention the exact name of the ability, but apparently, Grey Knights are as adept at teleporting as BA's are with Deepstriking JP's.

 

Good, I'm glad they included this too.

 

He talked a little more about how the BA codex was a sort of "test bed" for some abilities that this codex was going to have. They look alot alike but the basic troops here are better...and the point costs reflect it. This army will STILL be very elite and small. But Psychics, characters, and speed with stormravens is "off the chain".

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/05/19 16:10:43

 

 

Sounds great to me. There is a lot of stuff here that looks almost exactly like what I did for my own codex several months back. I hope that it all pans out.

 

Valerian

[Oiad]

Does sound good overall. A bit worried about the EW negation thing even though it's fluffy. When you have rules that negate rules, that negate other rules it gets silly and causes arguments.

 

The only thing that jilts is that the rumours when it comes to characters. There have been rumours now that suggest Stern is both a CC Mephiston monster and dead. Hell, BoLS even compiled both into one list of rumours today without noticing. Personally I'd like like to see Stern stay in his middle-ground BC/GM role and for them to bring in some new characters. Or at least some new rumours for more fluffy sounding characters. Unless there is a change to the theme/fluff coming a GM with lightning claws(?) or a biker hero(???) doesn't sound very Grey Knight-esque (when there are other SM armies more specialised with this wargear). Still, no point in getting wound up over rumours.

[schreier]

I keep hoping for a special character that would allow GKT to be troops ... can you imagine 3 storm ravens with GKT and 3 dreads? scary ... especially if you make them scouts somehow ...

 

Course, that would be true w/ the regular PAGK too ...

 

does this kill the artificer armor as standard rumor?

[Marmande]

I'd say no, as that particular rumor came from Harry whereas that list is mostly second- or third-hand sourced.

[Ozybonza]

There have been rumours now that suggest Stern is both a CC Mephiston monster and dead.

 

The two aren't mutually exclusive...... just look at Tycho (OK he's no monster, but you get the idea).

[kiwitexansfan]

Maybe its Brother Captain Dreadnought Stern now....

[Oiad]

The two aren't mutually exclusive...... just look at Tycho (OK he's no monster, but you get the idea).

 

Hehehe, because we can see the Ordo Malleus/ Grey Knights praising a super-zombie as their hero...

 

...Well, it works for the Emporor.

[Valerian]

Assuming the above rumor from DakkaDakka is accurate, here is a quick Mathhammer of what adding Rending and an additional CCW to a Grey Knight model does in comparison to our current rules.

I also added a middle ground for comparison of what our current models could do with just an additional CCW on the charge (no Rending).

By the way, MEK stands for Marine Equivalent Kills (WS4 T4 3+ armor save)

 

Current PAGK NFW on charge (circa 2002)

=2 Attacks x66% hit x 83% wound x33% penetrate =0.37 MEK

 

Current Justicar / GKT NFW on charge (circa 2002)

=3 Attacks x66% hit x 83% wound x100% penetrate =1.66 MEK

 

So currently a full pack of 10 models would net you an average MEK kill total of 5 models on the charge.

 

 

New PAGK NFW on charge (per rumor)

=3 Attacks x66% hit x 66% wound x33% penetrate =0.44 MEK

=3 Attacks x66% hit x 17% Rend x100% penetrate =0.34 MEK

=0.78 MEK

 

New Justicar NFW on charge (per rumor)

=4 Attacks x66% hit x 66% wound x33% penetrate =0.59 MEK

=4 Attacks x66% hit x 17% Rend x100% penetrate =0.45 MEK

=1.04 MEK

 

If the rumors are true a new full pack of 10 models would net you an average MEK kill total of 8 models on the charge.

 

Larger squads under the new system should do quite a bit better than under the old system against MEK, and certainly against enemy Terminators as well.

 

Valerian

[Valerian]

A short update from Beerfart (the guy on Dakka with the original rumors that INP posted above:

 

I talked to my bro that was also part of this discussion...he reminded me that it is indeed a Stormraven "Pilot" that gives the SCOUT movement. He has one other ability as well but he doesnt remember what it is other than its something protective.

 

So, it seems there is an upgrade character (similar to the IG Tank Commander Pask) that grants the additional Scout movement, and some other protective ability to a single Stormraven.

 

 

Valerian

[Cpt_Reaper]

I am actually hoping for it to be next year. I attend a tournament at the end of the year and am taking my Guard this year, which includes my former ISTs (now regular STs in =][= colours) and a Inquisitor and retinue in a Land Raider. If the codex comes out before =][=con then not only do I have to get new models to replace a massive gap in my army but also I have to rewite a list that serves me well. Double edged sword <_< New codex and plastic models (apparently) but my guard army suffers.

[Doomaflatchi]

Just a thought - if they add something similar to the Daemonic Infestation rules back in, then I sincerely hope that they add an additional addendum rule which states that Grey Knights do not automatically lose if there entire force is annihilated when the Daemonic Infestation rule is in use. If I remember correctly, back when that rule first came out and was used, Grey Knight armies would frequently triumph over Daemon-heavy chaos armies by points despite being wiped to the last man. This would fit with the fluff perfectly, and while I don't in any way expect it, I nonetheless sincerely hope that some sort of concession to this idea is made.

[Mithril hound]

Im going with August. You can slap me if im wrong, but its what beasts of war say, an there pretty reliable.

I'd love that, but so close GW should have lifted a bit of the curtain about the GK's incomming.

 

Especially as I feel that GK's are high on most people's "Cool" list so if they'd come out with good rules and shiny models they would be an almost garanteed sales hit.

 

It's not to late, but august is getting to be more and more unlikely..

 

I was speaking to Jervis at Games Day a while ago, and he told me 'We love surprises.' Just because they have been hopelessly inept at keeping anything under wraps recently doesn't mean that they can't...

Space Wolves anyone? Was that a surprise or not?

Seems they might do it again.

[boreas]

Bad news...

 

appologies if re-post but seen new white dwarf today in local GW and in the news section it states that the Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters codexs are going to be available in full in PDF format on the main GW site

not new codex but the old ones - so does this mean august as release time seems unlikely?Games Workshop (the people who have all your money)

Also Games Workshop Stores

**From Heresy-Online's Callred**

 

If they put the DH on PDF, it means they don't plan a new dex any time soon. Otherwise, they wouldn't have bothered <_<

 

 

Phil

[Gentlemanloser]

Suck.

 

Dream has died I guess.

 

Oh well, at least we've got DE coming later on in the year. Hopefully. Some updated rules for Harlequins will be interesting.

[boreas]

DE coming out is cool overall, but unfortunately nobody plays (or intends to play) them in my gaming group, so that's another 10-12 months of "nothing new" for us (nobody plays BA either). Last years were good (we have SW, Nids, IG, Ork and Eldar players). My SM do ok, but my Tau, Necrons, DH and WH (I thought having 5 armies would keep me with new stuff all the time, HA!) suffer sadly...

 

Phil

[Aeddon]

Bad news...

 

appologies if re-post but seen new white dwarf today in local GW and in the news section it states that the Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters codexs are going to be available in full in PDF format on the main GW site

not new codex but the old ones - so does this mean august as release time seems unlikely?Games Workshop (the people who have all your money)

Also Games Workshop Stores

**From Heresy-Online's Callred**

 

If they put the DH on PDF, it means they don't plan a new dex any time soon. Otherwise, they wouldn't have bothered :(

 

 

Phil

I really hope this isn't true..... :(

[Inquisitor Fox]

That might not be the case. It could be as simple as them putting out PDFs because X amount of time has passed since pulling the Codices, and they're putting them up in order to appease the public that the armies aren't going away.

 

I've heard several things in my neck of the woods concerning the fact that the work and rules is done... and that good things are indeed still coming in terms of awesome improvement. It could be as simple as trying to keep interest in peoples DH / WH armies so they don't leave the hobby. It could also be a total red herring move to try and throw off the scent, or be as simple as "alright, so since we've had a slight delay with the model prep, lets put the copies of the old 'Dex back out and release them in three months later than planned when we've got the product on hand."

 

Based on what I've heard, I'm still optimistic that it's sooner rather than later.

[boreas]

Still, I'd be surprised if they went through the trouble if it was for less than 8-12 months :-(

 

Phil

[kiwitexansfan]

Double edged sword :D New codex and plastic models (apparently) but my guard army suffers.

 

I'm afraid the guard are the meat shield of the Imperium, its their job to suffer!

[Justicar Valius]

Oh so sigged.

[Brother Captain Joe]

This is all my opinion, and I hope GK are next.

 

GW will put the codex pdf out because GW doesn’t want to pay for a run at the printers for an old codex that will be replaced relatively soon and be stuck with a bunch of old codex’s that were just printed and then garbage. If you know how much it costs to print books like the GW codex’s its expensive and you need to do it in large quantities to bring the cost per unit way down.

Now I only heard the witch hunters codex was coming to pdf, if both the sisters and grey knights come to pdf then I believe this means daemon hunters won’t get a new dex for a while, which makes me a sad panda.

[Ozybonza]

This is all my opinion, and I hope GK are next.

 

GW will put the codex pdf out because GW doesn’t want to pay for a run at the printers for an old codex that will be replaced relatively soon and be stuck with a bunch of old codex’s that were just printed and then garbage. If you know how much it costs to print books like the GW codex’s its expensive and you need to do it in large quantities to bring the cost per unit way down.

Now I only heard the witch hunters codex was coming to pdf, if both the sisters and grey knights come to pdf then I believe this means daemon hunters won’t get a new dex for a while, which makes me a sad panda.

 

While unlikely, another possible scenario:

They put the DH codex up because in the new one, there will be no Daemonhosts, assasains etc..... So in effect, both codex's remain valid.

 

Unlikely, but possible.

[Pcm979]

Or they could be doing it to drum up interest in the new one. Like those taste samples at supermarkets, or a clearance sale. "We're coming out with a new book soon, check the old one to see if you like it! Just a click away!"

[Brother Captain Joe]

Interesting but have they done anything like this before?

It kind of new territory.