Sternguard Veterans

[pattison]

Welcome brothers!

 

I have decided to build a Sternguard Vet squad for my army (not using the metal models, but will do my best in kitbashing and greenstuffing to make them vets as possible).

Still, I am a bit unsure about their shooty devices. As I see we have a lot of experienced players around, so I think it's worth asking.

I'd like to have your suggestions already in 3 set-ups:

 

• 5 sternguards, max 160 points (I know it's not much, that's the challenge)
  
• 5 sternguards, no points limit (just in case you have a kick-arse combo in your mind)
  
• 10 sternguards, reasonable points (just in case I fall in love with the sternguard :) )
  

In the last 2 categories, pls be so kind to give me the point cost of your idea too.

 

Just 2 additional things:

 

a]

I'd like to have a squad that can be implemented into almost any army, as things may change, but FYI at this moment they are most likely to roll with these guys:

 

HQ (245p):

1 captain w/ relicblade - 130p (travels with the termies)

1 chaplain w/ jumpac - 115p (goes with the assault squad)

ELITES (205p):

5 terminators, 1 w/ HFLAM, 1 srg w/ PSWORD - 205p

FAST ATTACK (240p):

10 jump pack assault, 2 w/ FLAM, 1 srg w/ PF, mbomb - 240p

TROOPS (390p):

10 tactical, 1 w/ FLAM, 1 w/ ML, 1 srg w/ PF - 195p

1 rhino - 35p

10 tactical, 1 w/ FLAM, 1 w/ ML, 1 srg w/ PF - 195p

1 rhino - 35p

HEAVY SUPPORT (260p):

1 Land Raider Crusader w/ multi melta - 260p (throws the termies to the spot)

 

b]

Don't ask me why, but I'd love to see lightning claws on the sarge. Just tell me if it's crap in your opinion.

 

Many thanks for your suggestions in advance!!!

 

 

pattison

[Bannus]

For Sternguard, I find that a powerfist for the Sergeant is really the only option you really need. i'm not a fan of one-shot wonderweapons, but the heavy flamer option can be a lot of fun!

[spartan249]

I usually bust out 8 combi-meltas and a Deathwind Missile Launcher on the Drop Pod. Costs a lot, but has never disappointed me on the drop. As an even bigger points sink, I throw in a librarian with GoI and Null Zone into one squad and drop the other one by itself. I drop them in conjunction to my infiltrating TH/SS terminators to watch things go boom, and it's always fun, whether the strategy works or not (sometimes volatile because of dice rolls).

[Grey Mage]

Im assuming that doesnt include cost of a transport-

 

5 Sterngaurd, Powerfist, 2x Combi-melta. 160pts. Best used with a Razorback, and makes an excellant command squad for a Commander or a Chappy.

 

10 Sterngaurd, Powerfist, 3x Combi-melta, 2- Combiflamer- 300pts, Best used as a fire support squad for the decimation of anything with a toughness value.

 

Alternatively:

 

5 Sterngaurd- Powerfist, 2x Combi-melta, 2x Heavy Flamer- 180pts, best used in a rhino really, though a similar unit could be the above, but with a TLHF razorback *shrugs*.

 

Edit: Why a powerfist instead of LCs? Because against Dreadnaughts youll need it, and against gribblies it doesnt hurt.

[pattison]

Thanks for the ideas so far!

What about the special ammo possibility? Isn't it worth to have (a) heavy bolter(s)? Storm bolter(s)?

A lascannon? Too expensive?

Just considering the bunch of possibilities here with the Sternguard and looking for good chemistry.

Cheers again!

[Grey Mage]

1) They come with special ammo as standard- Heavy Bolters dont receive it, and Ive heard it both ways on stormbolters- though if stormbolters got special ammo, Id never give sterngaurd anything else.

 

Heavy Weapon Support should be taken by Dreads, Tacs, and Devastators. Taking a Heavy Weapon for antitank on these guys is, IMHO, silly most of the time. If I did, it would be something flexable- like a ML, or a PC.

[pattison]

Heavy Bolters dont receive it, and Ive heard it both ways on stormbolters- though if stormbolters got special ammo, Id never give sterngaurd anything else.

 

Well yeah you're right. Checked the codex and it says 'only with a boltgun'.

I think I'll start to fabricate some combi-weapons soon. :)

 

So what if I would like to spend a bit more on those 5 sternguards and put them into a TLHF razorback along with Pedro for example? :)

Fire magnet (400 points already)? Or a nice all-around pack?

What else would you give to the remaining 2 sternguards with simple bolters? Also combiguns maybe?

 

Cheers

 

pattison

[Grey Mage]

Its a good all around pack, but if your using the HF I suggest a Dozerblade as well, that units made for Cities of death. Supported with another squad, probly tacs, and a Vindicator... youve got a nice push through any urban area.

[Gearhead]

I have a squad that's exactly 160 points.

 

Sternguard (5) -160pts

-Powerfist

-Combi-melta(x2)

 

I use it as a substitute for a command squad (which I do not own). Attach an IC and put them in a Razorback. I don't like to put a lot of combi-weapons in a squad, since I have to keep track of who's fired and who hasn't. That's a question; do fired/unfired combiweapons count as different models for wound allocation? I wouldn't think so.

[pattison]

I have a squad that's exactly 160 points.

Hey man, according to some of your topics seem like we have more than that in common armywise!

Good taste! :)

 

That's a question; do fired/unfired combiweapons count as different models for wound allocation? I wouldn't think so.

No I don't think they do.

Sternguard is pretty hot though, and I never have 2 marines that look the same so it's easy to keep track.

 

An other thing: does the overheating rule apply to the combi-plasmas too?

[Grey Mage]

Yes, it does apply to C-Ps, sadly. Its exactly like the weapon in all respects.

 

As for fire/unfired, that is a difference in wargear... so Ive seen it played as seperate for wound allocation. I agree with this ruling, as it impacts the game.

[rat of vengence]

Yes, it does apply to C-Ps, sadly. Its exactly like the weapon in all respects.

 

As for fire/unfired, that is a difference in wargear... so Ive seen it played as seperate for wound allocation. I agree with this ruling, as it impacts the game.

A model with a combiflamer is a model equipped with a combiflamer.

A model with a combiflamer that has fired is still a model equipped with a combiflamer. Wound allocation doesn't ask wether the weapon has been used or not, just what they are equipped with.

 

 

To OP, I like to use a 10 man squad with 3 combimeltas and 2 combiflamers, serg with powerfist. I will drop the pod near a tank that needs to die, and combat squad. 5 SG including the 3 combimeltas try to turn the tank into slag, the serg and 2 combiflamers template/rapid fire to death whatever unit is best placed to counter assault my SG. Sometimes I run a librarian with them, ALWAYS with Avenger or whatever it is called, the AP3 S5 template attack. It makes MEQ just go away.

 

Of course this is situational. I do not throw these guys away, and kill points missions would make me reconsider combat squadding them.

 

RoV

[Grey Mage]

Yes, it does apply to C-Ps, sadly. Its exactly like the weapon in all respects.

 

As for fire/unfired, that is a difference in wargear... so Ive seen it played as seperate for wound allocation. I agree with this ruling, as it impacts the game.

A model with a combiflamer is a model equipped with a combiflamer.

A model with a combiflamer that has fired is still a model equipped with a combiflamer. Wound allocation doesn't ask wether the weapon has been used or not, just what they are equipped with.

 

Thats actually not how Wound Allocation works RoV- your supposed to put one wound on each and every model in the unit individually. The rolling of identical models is to speed up the process, but the fact remains that you can lose one of the unfire combiweapons before one of the fired combiweapons, and its only sporting to roll for it fairly.

 

Note- it doesnt say you remove models with identical wargear, it says you remove models that are identical "in gaming terms".

[captain sox]

Greetings!

 

I just so happen to be working on my Sterguard as we speak.

 

Here's what they have (it's a 10 man squad):

 

Sergeant with Power Sword and Combi-Plasma.

2 Vets with Heavy Bolters

2 Vets with Combi-Meltas

5 Vets with Combi Flamers

 

 

The idea behind my Sternguard is to shoot at meduim range threats, from cover. I don't really plan to use them to assault anything, but if/when the enemy gets close, I'll let loose with 5 flamer shots. I figured the heavy bolters' range (36") would go well with the special ammo that the Sterguard get, which I believe can be up to 30". The Meltas are the 'Just in Case' weapons.

[rat of vengence]

Thats actually not how Wound Allocation works RoV- your supposed to put one wound on each and every model in the unit individually. The rolling of identical models is to speed up the process, but the fact remains that you can lose one of the unfire combiweapons before one of the fired combiweapons, and its only sporting to roll for it fairly.

 

Note- it doesnt say you remove models with identical wargear, it says you remove models that are identical "in gaming terms".

I do see your point there. Forgive me if I get your meaning wrong, but it sounded like you meant you would allocate hits as if they were different altogether. Having read your above post, I think you mean differentiating which of the allocated hits for 'models with combiwhatever' are going on used/unused combis? So not saying "Well, this used combimelta is different, so he gets 2 plasma wounds, and this unused one is getting 1 lasgun wound".

 

Its a tricky one. We shouldn't be treating them as totally different, yet we can't assume the used ones will die first/last. :)

 

RoV

[Grey Mage]

They are as different as a marine with Missile Launcher, or Meltagun. A Sterngaurd with a Discharged Combi-melta is more like a standard sterngaurd than one with an undischarged combimelta, as atleast then their capabilities are identical even if their wargear is not.

[rat of vengence]

I suppose then it comes down to what in "gaming terms" means. If we go the way you describe above, then you would roll all used combiweapons as being the same as sternguard with just a normal bolter. There is no practical difference between them. To allocate normal bolters, used combis and unused combis into 3 different groups would be taking advantage of the situation. Since there is no diff between the used combis and normal bolters, would you agree they should be rolled together then, meaning just two groups?

 

RoV

[Xeonic]

I'm not going to get into that argument. :)

 

I personally think sternguard benefit most from two weapons: Melta and Flamer, in the form of either heavy flamers, combi flamers, or combi melta. Why? Because they both give sternguard a good option vs something they normally couldn't combat, armor and hordes. Sternguard have plenty of infantry killy ammo, but none that will let them pierce tank armor or handle overwhelming ork boy mobs.

Combi plasma are an okay choice, but they already have AP3 ammo and thus combi plas will only be useful for combating terminators and equivalent, plus you could just unload your combi melta and flamers into them for similar effect anyhow. ;)

 

@ 160pts - 5 Sternguard, 3 combi-melta(or two and a combi-flamer), bolt pistol, power weapon and meltabombs on the sergeant - 160pts.

@ no limit - 5 Sternguard, 3 combi-melta, 2 combi-flamer, powerfist - 175pts.

@ 10 - 10 Sternguard, 4 combi-melta, 2 combi-flamer, powerfist - 305pts.

 

I'd mount the small squads in a razor, probably stuck in with my "counts as" pedro or another IC, and the larger squad in a rhino. I've seen people suicide pod them, but I personally think they're much too useful left alive for that.

 

I don't think sternguard are the proper place for heavy weapons, you want mechanized mobility to take advantage of their fantastic ammos, though having a 36" option also meshes well with certain heavy weapon choices.

[pattison]

I'm not going to get into the allocation argument either for a simple reason: I am a noob. B)

But I find the problematic itself very interesting and would be nice to get a let's say "official" opinion about it.

Though I can follow the logic of you guys, and it's really a dilemma for me if a fired combi weapon is a simple bolter or not. Practically it is, but the weapon itself is still a combi one...

 

Here's what they have (it's a 10 man squad):

 

Sergeant with Power Sword and Combi-Plasma.

2 Vets with Heavy Bolters

2 Vets with Combi-Meltas

5 Vets with Combi Flamers

 

The idea behind my Sternguard is to shoot at meduim range threats, from cover. I don't really plan to use them to assault anything, but if/when the enemy gets close, I'll let loose with 5 flamer shots. I figured the heavy bolters' range (36") would go well with the special ammo that the Sterguard get, which I believe can be up to 30". The Meltas are the 'Just in Case' weapons.

Thanks for the input! :)

Hmm, I've got 2 thoughts on this:

- Am I wrong that the combi-plasma is a 2 handed weapon? I mean I'm not sure, but I think the sarge cannot have a power sword and a combi-melta.

- The special ammo does not work with heavy bolters. If you check for example the hellfire rounds in the SM codex it says in a note, that it can only be used with boltguns.

 

Correct me anyone if I'm wrong with these.

 

@ 160pts - 5 Sternguard, 3 combi-melta(or two and a combi-flamer), bolt pistol, power weapon and meltabombs on the sergeant - 160pts.

@ no limit - 5 Sternguard, 3 combi-melta, 2 combi-flamer, powerfist - 175pts.

@ 10 - 10 Sternguard, 4 combi-melta, 2 combi-flamer, powerfist - 305pts.

 

Cheers for all your suggestions Xeonic, very handy ones! :)

 

p.

[Grey Mage]

I suppose then it comes down to what in "gaming terms" means. If we go the way you describe above, then you would roll all used combiweapons as being the same as sternguard with just a normal bolter. There is no practical difference between them. To allocate normal bolters, used combis and unused combis into 3 different groups would be taking advantage of the situation. Since there is no diff between the used combis and normal bolters, would you agree they should be rolled together then, meaning just two groups?

 

RoV

Yes, Id be just fine with rolling expended Combiweapons with the standard bolters. I also tend to have checkboxes on my printed lists so I can keep track of them, like I used to do with runic charms for my SWs.

[pattison]

What chapter do you field now Grey Mage?

[Grey Mage]

Space Wolves to be honest :D.

 

But I have a small Crimson Fist army going, simply because I loved the new pedro kantor model. Its only about 1000pts, but I can borrow alot from my wolf list to run with it when I play with my local club. I also play Eldar *6k+*, have a small SoB force *1.5k*, and the GF every once in a while buys something for some DE and BA forces... that rarely see the light of day. *sighs*.

 

Ive played Tau aswell, though it was an army left in my care for a while, and ive proxied orks, nidz, and daemons. It helps that Ive got a group of really cool guys and girls to play with *yes, two of the ten players are girls* and we play most every sunday.

 

Edit: It also doesnt hurt that I buy alot second hand, and amassed these models/armies over the course of 12 years.

[pattison]

Space Wolves to be honest ;).

 

But I have a small Crimson Fist army going, simply because I loved the new pedro kantor model. Its only about 1000pts, but I can borrow alot from my wolf list to run with it when I play with my local club. I also play Eldar *6k+*, have a small SoB force *1.5k*, and the GF every once in a while buys something for some DE and BA forces... that rarely see the light of day. *sighs*.

 

Ive played Tau aswell, though it was an army left in my care for a while, and ive proxied orks, nidz, and daemons. It helps that Ive got a group of really cool guys and girls to play with *yes, two of the ten players are girls* and we play most every sunday.

 

Edit: It also doesnt hurt that I buy alot second hand, and amassed these models/armies over the course of 12 years.

 

Umm, respect? :D

[Grey Mage]

Lol! :D Its all good, Im a veteran gamer of many things besides 40k, like the SCA and Football *wich is just another form of gaming really*. Just because Ive been around a while doesnt mean Im always right though... plenty of guys on this forum who have less than a quarter of the minis or years playing that I do are rather good tacticians, and give some really good ideas. ;)

 

Anyways, have we answered your question? Decided anything? And why did you ask about my chapter if I might ask?

[pattison]

Anyways, have we answered your question? Decided anything? And why did you ask about my chapter if I might ask?

 

Well to be honest all of these threads are like constantly update my knowledge and view of 40k real considerably.

I am just really hard on entry level, few months of reading about the whole phenomenon, about 1,5 month of 'what is what in the game', 4 finished and 15 wip marines, started the first one 1 month ago, 0 games played.

These are my honest statistics! :lol: But I have a lot to paint and somehow they are keep arriving each week from ebay I think.. :unsure:

And yes, all of your answers are making me smarter guys, thanks. I started painting as well-prepared as I could, same approach towards the game too.

 

I've asked about your chapter because of this sentence from you:

"I also tend to have checkboxes on my printed lists so I can keep track of them, like I used to do with runic charms for my SWs."

 

So maybe the runic charms are past, maybe the SWz, who knows? ;)

 

 

p.