How to defeat mech guard in large games

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

In a team tourny tonight my friend fielded a MotF with power weapon, digital weapons and combi-melta with a packless assault squad in a rhino. It went largely ignored and ended up chewing through two heavy wep combat squads, MotF with con beamer, Command squad, infantry platoon, and chimera. All in the course of two assault phases. Multi assault is an essential concept in guard fighting.

[Ming]

In the Ard Boyz up here we saw a guard mech player do well in the prelims in order to go to regionals. At regionals he withdrew after getting slaughtered in the first two games.

 

Game 1 was vs Ultramarines. The guard player deployed strong right both games, has tanks, chimeras, and Valks. The ultras were a mixed bag of a lysander equivalent, large squad of assault terminators, pod, speeders, tacs, etc. The Ultras fixed the IG in place while flanking in, down the center of the table. Once the Terminators assaulted 2-3 vehicles a turn, the tanks were trapped in the corner and eventually were all wiped out.

 

Game 2 was vs orks. Same start. The horde just charged across the board to get the clawz chomping down, while the shokk and lootas swept away the lower armor classes.

 

I played against a mech list at 2K. Big game, I used a all-comers, mech Marine list, where every squad had a anti-tank weapon. I won, but it was very very close (kill points). First I dealth with the flyers, then outflanked the IG line to trap them in my upper left quadrant. Then it was tank hunting time.

 

A well-rounded, cost effective SM list can beat a IG armored division very well....

[minigun762]

The guard player deployed strong right both games, has tanks, chimeras, and Valks.

 

the tanks were trapped in the corner and eventually were all wiped out.

 

Makes me wonder if a refused flank works for IG. They might be better splitting into 2 portions.

This means the Marine player is either splitting his forces or he commits to one and gets punished by the other.

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

Believe me, deploying a cluster of tanks together is a double edged blade. One one hand you block LoS. On the other a smart opponent can immobilize/wreck vehicles on the edges and make maneuvering a complete headache. Making you job of multi-assaulting a lot easier.

[Yotakka]

my buddy who got me into 40k plays a full tank company. every squad accept 3 regular infantry has a transport. he has no heavy or special weapons teams. 2 vet squads, 3 infantry squads, 2 5 man squads of ogryns, and a comisar. he has a valk and a chimera for his vets and the comisar so that the infantry can take massive wounds and b fine. he also takes 2 russ variations( one with pask), and i basilisk and one other unti( this varies depending on the day. sometimes a pysker battle squad or annother basilisk or even storm troopers)

 

i generaly counter this by drop podding sterngurd and combi meltas(obvoisly for the tanks) with a fist on the sarge and an outflanking assault squad( i accomplish this using shrike).

 

basicaly the best advice against guard is get into the assault against them... accept against the ogryns. avoid them!

[Warp Angel]

I play both Guard and Marines, so I build my "all comers" Marine list with an understanding that I might have a "mirror match" with the best guard army I can create (and I can create just about anything).

 

With that in mind, Guard is in serious trouble if you're able to get in close with them. Yes, surviving to get there can be problematic, but if you're able to get stuck in against them, Krak grenades and power fists from one squad can potentially wreck multiple vehicles a turn. Combat squadding becomes a stronger option than it might be otherwise (still not something you're always going to want to do) since 5 Marines can easily handle triple their size in guardsmen in hand to hand. Those blast template weapons that are so awesome as you're closing have got issues when you're too close for them to be placed or when you're in hand to hand and they can't be placed at all.

 

Most important though is denying your opponent the opportunity to bring all of his firepower to bear at once and in target priority. Knowing what's the important target in a guard army will make all the difference.

[Meatman]

Legion of the dammed? deep strike and still fire heavy weapons, plus 3+ invulnerable. Should mess some tanks up for you :)

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

Legion of the dammed? deep strike and still fire heavy weapons, plus 3+ invulnerable. Should mess some tanks up for you :D

 

At about quadruple the price. The smart guard commander would simple aim his plentiful lasguns and whittle them down with weight of fire knowing they have the invul.

[templargdt]

If you're going to deep strike something I think either Dreadnoughts or Sternguard. I really don't know about Sternguard. Thats a heck of a lot of points to drop next to an entire IG army. Yeah they'll kill some Chimeras, but still...

 

I'm thinking two dreadnoughts, maybe guided by some Scout Bikers with a Powerfist. Let them distract the IG guy while everything else goes hell for leather towards the Guard line.

[Vaktathi]

In the Ard Boyz up here we saw a guard mech player do well in the prelims in order to go to regionals. At regionals he withdrew after getting slaughtered in the first two games.

 

Game 1 was vs Ultramarines. The guard player deployed strong right both games, has tanks, chimeras, and Valks. The ultras were a mixed bag of a lysander equivalent, large squad of assault terminators, pod, speeders, tacs, etc. The Ultras fixed the IG in place while flanking in, down the center of the table. Once the Terminators assaulted 2-3 vehicles a turn, the tanks were trapped in the corner and eventually were all wiped out.

 

Game 2 was vs orks. Same start. The horde just charged across the board to get the clawz chomping down, while the shokk and lootas swept away the lower armor classes.

This sounds like a rather inexperienced IG player in all honesty, any mech IG player who gets themselves stuck with an enemy driving down the center of the table in their prime killing zone has a few things still to learn. The orks sounds much more reasonable, but Shokk attack guns should not be contributing consistent damage.

 

I played against a mech list at 2K. Big game, I used a all-comers, mech Marine list, where every squad had a anti-tank weapon. I won, but it was very very close (kill points). First I dealth with the flyers, then outflanked the IG line to trap them in my upper left quadrant. Then it was tank hunting time.

 

A well-rounded, cost effective SM list can beat a IG armored division very well....

To be fair, beating mech IG in a KP game where they have double your KP's isn't the most amazing feat, as you can often still win with only a couple marines still on the board and them with still a mostly intact force, KP's are pretty much "gimme" scenarios against Imperial Guard. Also, if they are letting you outflank without reaction units (PCS's with meltas in chimeras, RR's or the like) they also aren't doing an amazing job of playing that army. If you are able to just "deal" with the flyers rather easily, they aren't utilizing them correctly, or you went first and had an solid first turn shooting phase and they were dumb with them.

[happybounce]

I'm suprised the rhino rush hasn't been brought up yet. That's my usual playing style and it works pretty well against my best friend, who has been running tank-heavy IG for like 10 years. I pack 4 rhinos full of tac marines and rush 'em forward at one section of the army, popping smoke first turn. Because they usually have to spread out, I find I can often block line of sights to at least 2 of the rhinos with other rhinos. As an added bonus, I use the rhinos to screen my two 10-man Assault squad units.

 

What will happen most of the time is that about half the force will show up- 20 tac marines and 10 assault marines- against one section of the guard line. Guard are hella good at shooting forwards, but once you infiltrate that line they start to have problems, not the least of which is the terminator squads deepstriking in or the leftover remnants of any tac squads whose rhinos got popped.

 

Honestly, my usual play style is simple concentration of force- I focus on what I want the army to do (in this case, get there fast and shoot rapid fire/assault), max out on that, then throw my whole army at once section of theirs. I wouldn't fart around trying to get cover, or worrying about who's gonna die. Just throw all your boys at one part of their line as hard and fast as you can, then run rampant!