Hunter Killer Missile

[Warprat]

The Hunter Killer Missile upgrade. Too expensive I hear...

 

 

One approach is to use it sparingly on Rhinos attached to flanking squads so as to give a cheap opportunity side shot. Another would be to mount it on every vehicle possible to overwelm.

 

It must be fired as a Krak missle, has unlimited range, but can only be used once. It's cheap enough, that you can fire it at an enemy marine (in the open), and get roughly your points back, even if you have no vehicle targets to shoot at.

 

If used in mass, can a Marine army using it create enough hits to gain the upper hand, then only have to sustain that advantage through regular means?

 

 

 

Tactics anyone?

 

Warprat ;)

[Commander Sasha]

If you get a "weapon destroyed" on a Rhino, you lose the Storm Bolter; if another, it turns it into an "Immobilised", unless you have a handy Hunter-Killer to destroy instead!

Plus, an HK towards the end of the game on an ignored, empty people carrier can be overlooked, and shift that last pesky bloke on an objective.

[Grey Mage]

I wont take them, but its because I never seem to hit with them... or any other "one shot" weapon besides combis.

 

In 25 games my predator successfully killed one marine and caused one shaken result to a devilfish.

 

Never again. theres alot better things for me to spend my points on personally.

[Audun]

They've never seemed to pay off for me either. It almost never hits and as far as I can remember, it hasn't done anything memorable. The same for the predator it was mounted on (autocannon + lascannon sponsons) which in 4 turns in the one game, never hit anything apart from the storm bolter and procedded to get shashed by a power claw. Since then, I've nulled the HK and added another autocannon (IG heavy weapons) where the turrets targeter was, called it a twin linked lascannon and nobody has looked twice so far.

 

Usually when my pred's firing it goes like:

 

TLLC- misses both times

2xLC sponsons - two hits, fails to glance/pen

HK- misses

 

If they could fire every other turn i might take it again, but as it's more expensive than a standard missile launcher and is one shot, not for me.

 

If you did spam them they might be able to hurt something, but I'd rather flank attack with them, but I have other things for that (Bikes and speeders)

[Warprat]

So they never hit... seems more like a bad Karma issue to me! ;)

 

 

But seriously, spamming might not be such a bad option. If you compare 12 of them to a Dreadnought with twin Auto Cannons. It makes an interesting case. 12 shots that can be put on seperate targets, turn 1, while evaluating the results of each shot in series vs. 4 TL shots per turn for as long as the Deadnought is able to fire.

 

Now, your rarely going to be able to mount 12, and might even stuggle to get 6, but the idea is still sound. Early target saturation when you need it most...

 

 

Here are some possible gaming options:

 

Gunline- Troops can remain in Rhinos to fire heavies through the fire points. Use normal shots first if possible, then reinforce with missiles if needed.

Assault- Charge and smoke 1st turn, close the 2nd and unload. All vehicles fire the missles ASAP, or go for side shots (should make up for some of the lost vehicles while closing).

Tactical- Use a mix of methods, moving at 6" some of the time. Opportunity shots.

 

 

Targets- Tansports, artillery, special troops, side shots on tanks.

 

Other benefits- 2nd or 3rd weapon on a Rhino, that can save a Storm Bolter from being lost. Weapons spread around, harder to take out. Every vehicle becomes an armor threat. Can shoot at a seperate target than the transported squad, hence able to support other units. Backup heavy weapon for tanks.

 

 

Warprat ;)

[Grey Mage]

Yeah, I suppose it balances out my luck with armor saves.... like the lone wolf gaurd who pulled a luke skywalker and parried 17 bolter wounds this afternoon... and then died to three multimeltas *sighs*.

[Koremu]

I put one on top of a Vindicator quite a lot. Too often the Vindi ends up being back-pedalled away from until the enemy manage to score an Imob or WpnD result on it, and I like to have the H-K as a surprise long range hit.

[ShinyRhino]

I used to attach one to every vehicle I had, back when I was first starting out and was points-poor. I'd slap one on my Vindicator, Whirlwinds, Rhinos, etc.

I haven't used one in quite a while, though I do have ONE in my current army list, on an outflanking Rhino (via Kor'sarro Khan) that will hold a melta squad. I figure it's cheap enough to try out, and has a good chance at hitting a rear armor arc when coming in from the flanks. The unlimited range is nice for when you show up on the wrong side of the board, as well.

 

I also thought they'd be nice in an armor-heavy list as a first-turn salvo. You figure you can at least shake a bunch of your enemy's tanks on the first turn, which allows you some flexibility in movement if they can't fire at you for a turn. I figure this is best done in a "hit one til it's done" tactic. Due to the unlimited range on the HKs, fire at one enemy vehicle repeatedly until you either shake it, or get the desired damage result you want. Once the first target is "down", move to a second one.

 

I probably wouldn't hold onto the HKs til the late game though. I feel they work better as an alpha strike, unless coming in from a flank for the rear shot.

[Koremu]

Also, putting one on a Heavy Flamer Razorback (if you use such a thing) is a good trick, in case you don't need to be moving top speed but are out of range with the main gun.

[Resv]

Facing Guard armies more often lately I have taken to taking them on just about every vehicle at one point or another to experiment and see what kind of results I can get. They really aren't all that pricey in the long run depending on how strapped you are for points. Though they might seem inconsequential they can provide a nice "out of nowhere" hit to your opponent that might be hard to recover from. Guard being my primary example, and Mech Guard being the new Fresh Prince, being able to dish out multiple unlimited range S8 shots is very worth while. Even if your not destroying every Chimera on the board at least you may be able to stun your opponent's advance. With Tyranids no longer having Eternal Warrior there is also a bit of a benefit to being able to one shot Warriors from your transports and then lay into them with other Heavy weapons.

 

The thing that seems to catch most of my opponents off guard is the lack of range, if I can see it I can hit it. Using this combination with the only other extra long range weapon, the Conversion Beamer, you can deny your opponent safe haven by way of range. Spear Head deployment comes to mind and I had pretty good success using this against a Tau player about two weeks ago. Foremost in my mind though is that they make great reactionary weapons to unexpected moves like deep striking or out flanking vehicles, Valkyries/Vendettas specifically. While not a Guaranteed kill, they allow quick action to be taken to at least stun or shake what ever comes your way.

 

I don't think they are always cost effective and I don't use them in every list I run but some times they can be good fun and provide a little unexpected support when you might need it most. I think they are rather a good idea and I am always surprised when people make my show they the entry about them in the C:SM.

[General Retreat]

I like the outflanking HK usage, ShinyRhino! I may start slapping one on the squad I 'flank with Sicarious most of the time. That would be a nice option if they do show up on the wrong side of the board.

[Grey Mage]

Id take them alot in apocalypse though... since they count as pintlemounted theyre perfect for taking out enemy flyers.

[minigun762]

They could be semi-useful on TL Lascannon Razorbacks. Adds slightly to the "alpha strike" punch of them.

 

I would have assumed that Combi-Predators would have been the best choices but it sounds like they suck there too.

[General Retreat]

I think the H-K is just 5 points over-priced.

[Destaro]

They're a very useful addition to the drop podding Ironclads in my experience. It's a nice back up in case the meltagun fails to crack a vehicle or you need to soften up a squad that's out of range of your heavy flamer. Otherwise, I can see sticking them on some vehicles instead of or with extra armor for a buffer against immobilized results (via Weapon Destroyed).

[ShinyRhino]

They're a very useful addition to the drop podding Ironclads in my experience. It's a nice back up in case the meltagun fails to crack a vehicle or you need to soften up a squad that's out of range of your heavy flamer. Otherwise, I can see sticking them on some vehicles instead of or with extra armor for a buffer against immobilized results (via Weapon Destroyed).

 

You mean in following turns, provided the Ironclad isn't destroyed before the HKs get to fire, right?

[Grey Mage]

Nah, walkers can choose to fire all their weapons on the move thankfully... unless you meant his "after the melta fails" because yeah, you have to choose to use them before you know if it works or not.

[ShinyRhino]

Nah, walkers can choose to fire all their weapons on the move thankfully... unless you meant his "after the melta fails" because yeah, you have to choose to use them before you know if it works or not.

 

Yeah, the "after the melta fails" part was what I was getting at. But I didn't want to assume he didn't know the rules. :D lol

[Ming]

I would only put them on Rhinos, frankly. The tactic is to thgen use all the rhino missiles on turn 1 or as they enter play, firing at other enemy vehicles to increase "alpha strike" damage to your opponent. Shooting 3 missiles from 3 rhinos on T1 may be enough to reliably take out a AV11 equivalent unit, with the benefit of getting their points back AND reducing the opponents ability to transport his own units into your line. Similarly, they are apparently good on ironclads as missile pairs for the same reason. Not worth the effort to shoot HKMs on anything better than armor 3 (SME equivalent) or AV11 or anything in cover. But you must use them quickly before their platform is wrecked, certainly by turn 3. It is just like when using an orbital bombardment, you try to cause game-lasting damage to the opponents plans. If you buy more than 4 in your list, you might have been better off spending the points on a techmarine or on squad weapon upgrades.

[Warp Angel]

If used against infantry of Sv 3+ or worse, T4 or worse, it's an instant kill, will wound on a 2+ against T6 or less.

 

You need to fire approximately 2 missiles (5/9) to average a single hit and wound.

 

Against armor, your results vary, but assuming that all you're looking for is a shaken or better result, you need:

 

Almost 2 to get AV 10 (5/9) reliably

More than 2 to get AV 11 (4/9) reliably

3 to get AV 12 (1/3) reliably

More than 4 to get AV 13 reliably (2/9)

And a full 9 to get AV 14 reliably.

 

Where it gets fuzzy is when you start considering whether a shaken result is what you're looking for, or if you're looking to do permanent damage. As soon as you start looking beyond shaken results, knock your chances down considerably and by extension, increase the number of missiles you need to be reliable.

 

But that's in absolute numbers of missiles. How many platforms do you have availble to you to even mount that many missiles on? Sure, you have a chance for an alpha strike, or to do something neat, but a 56% odds of doing something meaningful at best ONCE during a game isn't necessarily a selling point in my book. What else can I get for those points that might have a chance to do it more than once in a game?

 

You, as the general, need to make the decision about the needs of your force and your play environment, and whether or not the hunter killer missiles fill a gap in your list that you can't fill in a different way. If the answer is yes, then go for it. If the answer is no, then go with what you believe to be the better option.

 

This is a pure "S" situation in killhammer terms, but I find it hard at most points levels to start adding one shot weapons in effective numbers and building my army around tactics for them when I could instead be buying something else that fills a similar role at that points cost.

[Warprat]

Well, lets say you have a force with 3 Tac squads/w Rhinos, 2 Predators, and a couple attack bikes thrown in. That's a pretty reasonable setup, many people use.

 

As well as rushing forward, you now have the added alpha strike option as well. That might prove useful against IG, Tyranids or anything highly transport oriented. for 50-60 pts, you have maybe gained a new option, and can still use the missiles (not quite as well, but hey...) for use with some other tactic.

 

2 Pedators fire at a transport each.

The Attack Bikes each fire at a transport.

The 3 Rhino HK's fire serially, evaluating the results with each hit.

Then the Tacs fire, again serially. Possibly using their plasma cannons or frag missiles on stranded troops.

 

Good chance for 5-6 shakens or better. If a couple are knocked out, then next turn the Predators and Bikes can keep firing while the Tacs manuver to attack the now slowed enemy one section at a time.

 

 

Warprat ;)

[Destaro]

They're a very useful addition to the drop podding Ironclads in my experience. It's a nice back up in case the meltagun fails to crack a vehicle or you need to soften up a squad that's out of range of your heavy flamer. Otherwise, I can see sticking them on some vehicles instead of or with extra armor for a buffer against immobilized results (via Weapon Destroyed).

 

You mean in following turns, provided the Ironclad isn't destroyed before the HKs get to fire, right?

 

Yes, I meant in the following turn(s) or if you say, scatter out of range for the melta. I wasn't trying to imply that you could wait and see if the melta worked before shooting the HK's.

[Giga]

I think hunter killer missiles are overpriced for what they do. At BS4, it has a 33% chance to miss, which is also pretty crappy.

 

Chaos has it much better here, as they can get combimeltas on their rhinos. Now THAT is something I would probably pay points for.

[minigun762]

I think hunter killer missiles are overpriced for what they do. At BS4, it has a 33% chance to miss, which is also pretty crappy.

 

Yeah but I don't think you can look at HK Missiles individually, you have to look at them as part of the unit.

 

With IC Dreads, its +2 S8 shots upon landing in addition to the Melta shot. If you need a AV13 or less vehicle to really be killed or stunned when you land, it might be worth it.

 

With a Combi-Predator, its an extra long range shot that matches well with the rest of your weapons (AC and LC). Again if you're firing at something that needs to die, it gives you a little more insurance.

 

This is why I'd add it to a unit if it enhanced that units role.

[Giga]

Well, yeah, an ironclad with a meltagun and two krak missiles would probably be a good vehicle-buster.

 

On the other hand, I feel you could do the same thing (only better) with a unit of 5 sternguard with combimeltas.

 

Hunter-killa missiles on rhinos, razorbacks, and the like are just not worth it, IMHO. There's ALWAYS something better you could spend those points on.