DIY Challenge

[Brother Argent]

You metioned your Star Wardens twice there. Should one of them be the Leopards Argent? :tu:

 

Mistake, what mistake. ;)

 

Oh and should be good, Ace. I always love reading your IAs.

[Sigismund Himself]

As the defending Iron Man champion, I'd participate in this (at least in the fluff parts, not so much the battle report and army side of things) though not for the prize (I promised Ferrata I'd stop bleeding him dry after two prizes from Liber challenges ^_^ ). I may even be able to put a prize up...

[Brother Argent]

Well the prize was gonna come from me so any one willing to offer prizes or any support from the B&C or sponsors would be awesometastic.

 

Well looks like it might be a go ahead, judging by the amount of interest expressed so far. Might pop a thread in the PC&A forum to let the hard core painters know. Any one else have suggestions before I officialise the rules and get things kicking off?

[Ferrata]

My personal suggestions would be to make it a challenge and not a competition - this removes the need for prizes/scoring. This makes it a lot easier on the organiser, and prizes do come out quite expensive (even if you only do a BL book (average £6) you will then have to ship them all over the world). Having sent out prizes before, it is an additional cost that needs to be factored in as it is expensive to send prizes to down-under and to the States.

 

If it was a challenge, we could throw together a banner that you recieve once you have handed in an IA article of Librarium quality. Then, you could add a couple of bells and whistles for additional articles included. So we could add a little icon to show additional work on top the normal. For example:

 

Banner - IA in the Librarium

 

Helmet (bronze) - Paint up one model in the chapters colour

Helmet (silver) - Paint up either a squad or a converted model

Helmet (gold) - Paint up 500 points, or an entirely converted squad, vehicle (basically, something a little more)

 

Shield (bronze) - Add a short story to the chapter (500-1000 words)

Shield (silver) - Add a medium story (1000-1750 words)

Shield (gold) - Add a long story (1750+)

 

We could add say three or four additional aims to the IA, but make sure it is all completable within a shorter time frame.

[Brother Argent]

Hmmm, well it was originally intended as a challenge. I think that Revered Brother Feratta has shown the chapter his ancient wisdom again... or something. I like the way you think. Of course we would need the assistance of a talented banner artist. Mainly cause I cant do something quite that awesome.

 

Oh and do people think we should do this episodically ala Iron Man, an all in method or some kind of mix where you are allotted time to complete certain parts of the Challenge. I ask this because I feel some parts are really something you do at the same time: IA and painting or story. That kinda thing. I know for me painting is a very drawn out process with me painting other things in between. And of course some may choose to paint some of their stuff for the Librarium Painting Challenge. But having it episodical would make things far easier to manage. What do you think?

[Solomon de Gravier]

I agree. Having something like the Iron Man challenge is a good idea. WHen will this start?

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Sure, I haven't tried this Iron Man before, so I will cast my vote towards that.

[Ferrus Manus]

I think Iron Man-esque would be best. Say 4-6 months for the IA, then 2 months for a story, then 4 months for modelling etc... with banners and appropriate symbols being added along the way.

[Argon]

I'd be happy to do this. However, I think the army should be around 1500, since that's an average size list, right? That, and it would be a challenge for some people (like me, for instance) to get that many models in a short amount of time.

 

I have two questions:

 

1. Does our IA have to be for a loyalist chapter?

2. Does the painting need to meet a certain standard or do we just have to meet "tabletop quality"?

[Ferrus Manus]

Thinking about it, another issue with writing a Librarium standard IA is feedback. You can give every challenger a year to write such an IA and still not achieve it, especially if they only receive three or four replies/critiques in that time.

 

So you'd need to find a way to limit this...

[Neophyte of Slaanesh]

Not to sound like a huge wussy, but I would definitely be interested in a low key kind of competition. I haven't really been particularly active on B&C because I can't model/paint as well as many, many others on this forum can. But I enjoy painting/modeling regardless and since I'm not active in my local GW store, I have very few other 40k playing friends. I do love writing though and that Iron Man challenge sounded fantastic. So I'm totally interested this!

[Argon]

Thinking about it, another issue with writing a Librarium standard IA is feedback. You can give every challenger a year to write such an IA and still not achieve it, especially if they only receive three or four replies/critiques in that time.

 

So you'd need to find a way to limit this...

 

One thing you could do would be to have the contest thread link to all of the entries. Would that work?

[Sigismund Himself]

I think it would be best to run this along the lines of the Librarium Painting Challenge. There's a set timeframe and participants can elect to do as much or as little as they wish to. Say I vow to finish my IA and get it into the Librarium. This allows me to focus on what I want from the challenge. Others can then pledge to paint up chapters' armies and do short stories if they wish (with the reward of a suitable signature, title or recognition awaiting them if they succeed). Each participant would pledge to help each other in terms of critiquing as much as possible. Signatures (I can take care of these) and titles can be allocated by an organizer at the end of the time period. That's just my take on how I think it would be best to run this as a challenge.

[Brother Argent]

Let me answer a few of the Questions raised here as I would see it work:

 

I agree. Having something like the Iron Man challenge is a good idea. WHen will this start?

 

Not sure on an exact date but I think probably the first challenge would start in mid to late January.

 

I think the army should be around 1500, since that's an average size list, right?

Well the Idea would be for three awards for each challenge, a bronze silver and gold, so to speak, fpr the challengers achievement. For The painting Challenge I'm thinking Bronze for the Challenge requiremnt - 1000pts. Silver for 1500pts. Gold for 2000pts or more.

 

1. Does our IA have to be for a loyalist chapter?

2. Does the painting need to meet a certain standard or do we just have to meet "tabletop quality"?

 

1. Any Chapter you want, loyalist, renegade whatever. Infact a few Chaos guys would be great.

2. The painting standard that would need to be met is: painted. There would be no need for Golden Demon quality models or anything. I for one know that I pretty much such at painting. The Challenge isn't in the quality of the models painted, but getting the models painted.

 

You can give every challenger a year to write such an IA and still not achieve it, especially if they only receive three or four replies/critiques in that time.

 

Well my answer to this would be the three place ranking system for hte Ia Challenge. Bronze for completing an IA. Silver for (lets say) 10 Comments on other participants IAs. Gold for 20+ Comments on other IA. And these would be constructive comments not things like: "Wow, nice." or something. Comments that are actually suggestions or critiques. These figures are up for change at the moment but I don't think they'll get lower, only higher. This is to help participants as well as encourage the spirit of what Liber is all about. And as Argon mentioned there would be a link in the Challenge thread to all the IAs and most likely to the other Challenges as each player went along. Kind of a DIY Challenge Hub.

 

I think it would be best to run this along the lines of the Librarium Painting Challenge. There's a set timeframe and participants can elect to do as much or as little as they wish to. Say I vow to finish my IA and get it into the Librarium. This allows me to focus on what I want from the challenge. Others can then pledge to paint up chapters' armies and do short stories if they wish (with the reward of a suitable signature, title or recognition awaiting them if they succeed). Each participant would pledge to help each other in terms of critiquing as much as possible. Signatures (I can take care of these) and titles can be allocated by an organizer at the end of the time period. That's just my take on how I think it would be best to run this as a challenge.

 

Well Sigismund (the almighty) this is similar to the way in my mind as to how I envision this to run. The DIY Challenge is an event as a whole, with a podium style award system for each challenge as well as the whole DIY Challenge. Each of the Five Challenges may be undertaken as a sperate challenge (eg I only want to paint up some DIY models) or as a whole event (eg. I'm going to develop an IA and some Charecters, paint some models and play a few games with them which I'll write a story about) Players are awarded a signature for completing even one Challenge. I see this in my mind as an image of a gauntlet as I think I'm throwing down the gauntlet figuratively here. This would represent the challenger having taken part in the challenge. This signature would be "upgraded" to represent the more challengers participation in each of the challenges. The exact manner of how each person would be awarded is (roughly as follows):

 

Overall DIY Challenge Signature:

Bronze Gauntlet - Participated in one of the Five Challenges.

Silver Gauntlet - Completed three of the five Challenges

Golden Gauntlet - Completed all Five of the Challenges

Platnium Gauntlet - Completed all five of the Challenges at the highest level (gold) - see below.

 

The following would be a small graphic added to the Overall Signature (along the bottom) to represent each participants achievements.

 

IA Challenge - Complete an IA to Librarium Status

Bronze quill - Completed IA

Silver Quill - Completed IA and made 10 constructive comments on other participants IAs

Golden Quill - Completed IA and made 20+ constructive comments on other participants IAs

 

Painting Challenge - Paint a number of points worth of marines.

Bronze Helm - Paint and base 1000pts of your Chapter

Silver Helm - Paint and base 1500pts of your Chapter

Golden Helm - Paint and base 2000pts of your Chapter

 

Story Challenge - Write and proof read a story based on your DIY Chapter

Bronze Purity Seal - Write a 2000 word story

Silver Purity Seal - Write a 3000 word story

Gold Purity Seal - Write a 3500+ word Story

 

Character Challenge: Create two Charecters for your Chapter

Bronze HQ Skull - Create stats and fluff for two characters

Silver HQ Skull - Create stats, fluff and model or artwork of character

Gold HQ Skull - Create stats, fluff, model and artwork of character

 

Battle Report Challenge - Play and report a battle from your Chapter

Bronze Bolter - Report a battle from your Chapter

Silver Bolter - Report a battle with pictures or battle map (like those seen in White Dwarf) from your Chapter

Gold Bolter - Report a battle with both pictures and battle map

 

Those whom commit to a Challenge (take up the gauntlet) but do not complete it in the alloted time have the appropriate graphic in white with FAILED in red across it added to their signature.

 

Phew, I'm running out of internet breath now. So what do you guys think? Oh and Sigismund, would such an ambitious signature system be, perhaps, a little too ambitious?

[Sigismund Himself]

Oh and Sigismund, would such an ambitious signature system be, perhaps, a little too ambitious?

Not at all, though removing the 'Overall' category may make things easier. I think I can fit it all into one signature and with layers in Photoshop, it's easy to get all the different combinations required.

[Ace Debonair]

With regards to feedback - if folks mention in the sort of sub-title to their IA that it's part of the DIY challenge, I'll do my darnedest to read it and give helpful advice.

 

Although I do intend to enter this portion of the contest myself, rest assured I won't try to sabotage any of the other entries. :P

The more Librarium-grade DIY stuff on this forum, the better.

 

Also, having read more of the previous posts, it appears that helping out might put me in line for the gold award for the IA contest. :)

[Reyner]

This sounds very good! I'll have to sharpen up my Feedback skills (they have always been sub-par) and heck at the end I'd be happy just finishing my IA and getting it in the Librarium <_< . Could also try get my girlfriend to enter cos I can't build another IA by myself I'm strugging enough as it is!!

[Brother Cambrius]

Sounds interesting to take part in. I haven't been too busy on the DIY chapter front in a while (much to the joy of the Liberties. -_-), it would be nice to think of one of my many creations fully complete.

 

Cambrius

[Solomon de Gravier]

Character Challenge: Create two Charecters for your Chapter

Bronze HQ Skull - Create stats and fluff for two characters

Silver HQ Skull - Create stats, fluff and model or artwork of character

Gold HQ Skull - Create stats, fluff, model and artwork of character

 

Could you change it to:

 

Bronze HQ Skull - Create two of the following list for each character

Silver HQ Skull - Create three of the following list for each character

Gold HQ Skull - Create four of the following list for each character

 

Stats, Fluff, Model, Artwork.

 

This is just because I don't play 40k and havn't the faintest idea what the rules are (although they're probably quite close to WFB rules) so I wouldn't be able to do the stats thing which would mean that I wouldn't even get Bronze even if I did everything else!

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Solomon just give them WS/BS/S/T/W/I/A/LD/SV

.....................................6///5//4/4/3/5/3//10/3+

 

Sorry that it is messy, stupid thing kept erasing all my spaces

[Ferrus Manus]

SP, I must say you've thought this out very well. My only issue is with this:

 

Painting Challenge - Paint a number of points worth of marines.

Bronze Helm - Paint and base 1000pts of your Chapter

Silver Helm - Paint and base 1500pts of your Chapter

Golden Helm - Paint and base 2000pts of your Chapter

 

Simply, I'd suggest changing it to Bronze: 500pts (or even as suggested a (heavily) Converted squad), Silver: 1000pts, Gold:1500+pts. This would be to allow those members would rather not do too much modelling a chance at this category, and possibly even the battle report challenge with a 500pt game. Overwise, I'm up for it!

[Ferrata]

If you want a pledge idea, here is the Baby One I ran a year or so ago.

[Codex Grey]

I love the initiative, SP! I might even participate.

 

Questions though, how will we keep track of constructive criticism, who decides what is constructive criticism and who will keep track of this?

[Ferrus Manus]

who decides what is constructive criticism and who will keep track of this?

Well, I think it would have to be more than 'that's great' or 'that's against the DIY rules.' Something along these lines, ideally. But, it could be simply a couple or points.

 

Just my two cents.

[Brother Argent]

Well in answer to the few questions this time:

 

Could you change it to:

 

Bronze HQ Skull - Create two of the following list for each character

Silver HQ Skull - Create three of the following list for each character

Gold HQ Skull - Create four of the following list for each character

 

Stats, Fluff, Model, Artwork.

 

Not a bad idea, although I think the Fluff will be a requirement. Of course I'm sure one of the other participants would gladly help with rules. If I remembre correctly there was a guy here not to long ago whom was creating rules for characters by request. And of course you wouldn't be judged on how good the rules where, just that they have some. If you have the codex just make it a counts as character ie: pick the character with the most suited rules and just change the name etc. This one is more about fluff, model and possibly artwork more then rules. Rules just add character.

 

I'd suggest changing it to Bronze: 500pts (or even as suggested a (heavily) Converted squad), Silver: 1000pts, Gold:1500+pts. This would be to allow those members would rather not do too much modelling a chance at this category, and possibly even the battle report challenge with a 500pt game.

 

Perhaps:

Bronze - 500pts

Silver - 1000 pts

Gold - 1850+ pts. (As I believe this is the required number of points for Tournaments is is not?

 

Questions though, how will we keep track of constructive criticism, who decides what is constructive criticism and who will keep track of this?

 

Well, I think it would have to be more than 'that's great' or 'that's against the DIY rules.' Something along these lines, ideally. But, it could be simply a couple or points.

 

Exactly Ferrus. Constructive Criticism is exactly that. Something more then just " Wow, great." Something that offers advice to the participant. As for whom would judge if the comment was constructive and keep track of it, me most likely. Of course if a participant was unhappy with my result they could dispute it via PM and I would investigate.

 

So, any further questions or suggestions or should I get this thing rolling?