Slight bump in dealing with the Sisters...

[Magua]

Playing in small 1200 pt games. One of my regular opponents plays a straight-up Sisters army. My particular stumbling block is the huge amount of invulnerable saves from the faith points.

 

His army is something along these lines (from memory):

 

HQ

Cannoness: 2+ armor save, book that allows usage of a faith power 1/game w/o roll, eviscerator

Cannoness: same, I think

 

Troops

Sisters x 10: Imagifier, flamers

Sisters x 10: Imagifier, flamers

 

Elites

Inquisitor and retinue: not sure of the exact makeup, but tooled for close combat. Chirurgeons, acolytes, and crusaders.

Callidus assassin

 

Heavy

Orbital strike

Exorcist

Retributor squad: Immolater, melta weapons

 

The cannonnesses join with the sister squads. He gets 7 faith points, and the books give him two free activations. If there's an armor ignoring threat to one of his sisters squads, he'll burn the book to activate Spirit of the Martyr if the squad is near full, or else just spend a faith point if it's seven models or less -- he has to roll the # of models in the unit or higher, and the Imagifier lets him roll three dice and pick two.

 

The Inquisitor and retinue move to intercept a cc threat. The Exorcist and Orbital Strike are used to attack units that outrange the sisters and are hanging back. The Callidus kills whatever the biggest threat is when it arrives.

 

Since he gets faith points back if the faithful units are killed, he is able to use it on each of the sisters squads each turn, just about. If I don't force him to use one on a sister squad that turn, he can then use the faith points are to make his attacks rending or to force a squad to regroup if it's broken.

 

So my problem is that this tarpits me pretty easily. The sisters outshoot the marines (T3, but they're only 11 pts each), so I want to engage in cc, but in cc he gets a cannoness with a power weapon, and I effectively don't. The marines can beat the sisters in cc handily enough, but they're only scoring a wound 5.5% per attack against the cannoness, and she's scoring one 33% per attack back. Add in that I'm taking a round of rapid fire bolters to close, and it's a losing proposition.

 

So how do I deal with this? My tries so far:

1) Plasma Cannon devastators: Useful, no question. But there's a dilemma -- if they're only within range of one sister squad, he'll just activate the power each turn for that squad. If they're within range of both squads, they're likely somewhere in the middle of my deployment zone, which is very likely to be near where the Orbital Strike hits.

2) Sternguard with Inferno ammo: Same general problem. I can get a squad into the 18" range, see if he activates, and shoot the Inferno ammo if he doesn't. But if he does activate, I'm back to shooting regular bolter shells at them, except instead of a 15 pt to 11 pt mismatch, its a 22 pt to 11 pt mismatch.

3) Librarian with Null Zone + Avenger. Avenger seemed so promising, but the sisters resist psychic powers like they have a hood. Null Zone is relatively useful, but if he's in range to Null Zone them, he's in range to get shot at by something. If he gets into cc with a cannoness, he's dead meat, so it's a balancing act of getting him close without getting him into an assault.

 

I don't have a land raider, so delivering some TH+SS termies via one isn't an option (not sure it'd be a good use of points even if it was). Any other ideas? Right now, I'm relegated to tossing assault squads in and hoping to kill enough of the sisters off to get the cannoness to break, and massive long ranged fire (more heavy bolters and missile launchers than you can shake a stick at) to just drop the sisters by sheer weight of numbers.

[Gornall]

Rhinos... In this situation, he who shoots first (and with the most) wins. Most of his nasty stuff (Divine Guidance, Callidus, etc) don't work on guys in vehicles, so you can use that to your advantage. Out-ranging him (especially with HBs) is also a great idea. I think a Dakka Pred might be a good buy for you. If you can silence the exorcist, then you just drive around at will slowly whittling him down until you jump out and pistol/charge. It also allows you to spread out objectives, forcing the Sisters to split their troops up more, allowing you to isolate and destroy in detail.

[minigun762]

I'd imagine things like Heavy Bolters, Whirlwinds or Flamers would be quite useful. Just stack wounds on him (he's only T3) and they're bound to fail enough regardless of their saves.

 

If he's smart you'll not burn a Faith point on these things (as a 3+ armor save is good enough) so make him burn it by hitting the squad with Plasma or Melta or something beforehand.

 

The other thing you're going to want is numbers. A basic Tactical squad with a Flamer/Power Weapon and Heavy Bolter is a threat to most everything in his list and its pretty cheap. If I remember right, SoB are S3 only, so Bikers are another option.

[Grey Mage]

The Litanies of faith each give a free act with no test, but the imagifiers only give a 3rd dice to roll, and the ability to choose wich two dice to take. Since he has to roll OVER the unit size to get those invulnerable saves the key is to hit him hard, twice. Once to take the litanies of faith, the second to actually wipe the unit... and dont hit them with anything to bring down their numbers in between.

 

A pair of vindicators would be ideal for this.

 

But frankly volume of fire is probly more important... the ++ just makes sure they get an armor save- theyre still T 3, and will dropp faster than marines... and WS 3, so vulnerable to assault.

 

Id suggest:

 

JPing Chaplain

 

3 Tactical Squads, Las/Plas and powerweapons would probly be the best loadout- 240pts each in rhinos. Lascannons to smack their paultry vehicle complment around a bit, rhinos for cover mostly, but late game you can embark and rapid redeploy.

 

10 Assault Marines- Powerfist. Keep it simple, cheap, and full of bodies. You should be able to crush anything in their army.

 

Whirlwind- Just as scary as a vindicator to sisters really. Remember that if your using direct fire you can fire on the move... so deploy it away from your forces next to a terrain peice... and then move it. You can bet your opponent will have declared that terrain peice as the target for their bombardment *it has to be written down during deployment :)*.

 

And a Dreadnaught to round out your force to 1200 right about. I reccommend either quad autocannon or AC+HF here.

 

With such a force you will outshoot, out fight, and outmaneuver them... and then what is left for your opponent but to lose?

 

Example:

 

Chaplain- JP, Meltabomb- 120pts. Good, cheap, and helps keep the assault squad moving with its fearlessness.

 

Dreadnaught- Extra Armor, Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon- 140pts. Very very little in the WH army that can tackle this guy in CC, and Meltaguns seem at a premium in your opponents force.

 

Tac Squad- 10 man, Lascannon, Plasmagun, Powerweapon, Rhino- 240pts.

Tac Squad- 10 man, Lascannon, Plasmagun, Powerweapon, Rhino- 240pts.

Deploy forward, use the lascannons on the immolator first and just remove it as a threat completely. Then proceed to fire on the closest infantry threat or go after the immolator if needed.

Scout Squad- 5 Man, Powerfist- 100pts.

First turn rush forward and assault the immolator while flaming out a nearby supporting troop squad. Re-embark if possible and use it to preform whatever harrying tactics you can... in objective games try to stay alive and mobile as possible.

 

Assault Squad- 10 Man, Powerfist- 215pts.

Should crush anything they have in CC with the support of the chaplain, this is the best tool to hammer things home.

Landspeeder Storm- Heavy Flamer- 60pts.

Turns the scouts from a nuisance into a javelin of death. Keep it alive is possible, but if its doing its job its worth losing it.

 

Whirlwind- 85pts. Shell his infantry positions. Wounding on a 2+ and pinning... who cares about armor saves?

 

1200pts.

 

Yeah... martyrdom is helpful- but he has five faithful squads in the army and frankly only five models that are "faithful"... if the Veteran sister superior dies her squad loses the benefits, and the cannonesses dont confer that ability on the squad.

[Magua]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Another question, possibly cheesy: If he uses Spirit of the Martyr, and I use Null Zone, obviously he rerolls successfully invulnerable saves versus, say, a Plasma Cannon. But does he have to reroll them versus bolter fire? Or can he still claim his original armor save?

 

I used dreadnoughts for a bit -- they're really good against the sisters, as they simply cannot hurt the things, even with Might of the Emperor. That's why the cannonesses have eviscerators -- 6+2d6 AP. On the other hand, the dreadnought will instakill a cannoness, if it hits. Jumps back to the invulnerable saves though -- if the cannoness has a 2++, the chances are high that she'll shrug off the attack and wreck the dread.

 

Ran the numbers on the sternguard. A 10 man Sternguard squad won't hammer the unit hard unless it's within 12" when it shoots.

 

I like the idea of forcing the use of the book, and then hitting with a hammer afterwards. But nothing in that list really forces him to use the books -- only the lascannon x 2 and plasma guns x 2 ignore AP during the shooting phase, so he can wait until assault to use the books. I'm thinking plasma cannons might do the trick, as their threat range is large.

 

Seems to require dropping the dreadnought and the whirlwind to make room, though, and that leaves me with really only the scouts as a way to threaten the exorcist reliably, which can fail if I go second. Or I could drop the scouts and the whirlwind, and give the dreadnought some melta, and put him in a drop pod, but I like the idea of the storm going around and tearing things up.

[Grey Mage]

He can take his normal armor save... but he has to declare it before the roll of course.

 

The tactics above are ideas... you wont use all of them with the list below *spreads hands*. Most of the list above is designed to cause wounds... after that its up to your opponent to roll the saves or not. A 3++ save is worthless to the last two sisters in the squad if theyre getting rapid fired on by two tactical squads.

[chapter master 454]

Just Earth army him to the ground. Fire (ironic yes) or earth armies could easily pummel those loop-hole rule militants to teh ground. A TFC will be his worst nightmare because not even a 3++ is gonna help when a TFC puts on at least 16 wounds (statically, about 2-3 fail to wound, still about 13-14 wounds so statistcally thats 3-5 dead sisters). For the canoness try telion, he could help pop some skulls. As for the callidus, she isn't exactly a concern, yes they have some nasty stuff us earth armies hate but lets face it, if you know whats coming you pack something for her and heres a nasty trick however it may cost some damage to you. Scout biker mines, now the rules say when a unit moves in the terrain the mines go off so what you do is you have your marines set up in the building or near it and then when the callidus comes for you, get her to ether to chase your through the building or move into by some means (ether that or let your marines pummel five shades of hell out of her. T3 I believe with a 4++, only saving grace is her speed).

 

Another consideration is from my experierence while this list may have ranged support from the orbital (however isn't this a one shot weapon?) you can easily out do them in range because naturally they have to get with 24" to exchange fire so ether be agressive with fire and just bolter blitz them (trust me, I had 5 marines do a retalitating bolter blitz against a SoB normal squad that had killed 3 guys, the return fired leveled them for 4 kills and a broken squad). Yes they do have ++ saves however it's like the LOTD, just pile the wounds on them because the dice gods don't like letting someone away with such a cheesey idea (however when they are T3 I grant them some pity when I put down the instant death of doom barrage from TFCs!)

[Giga]

Assault them.

 

Marines strike first, hit on 3+, and wound on 3+. Sisters hit marines on 4+, and wound on 5+. Hence, even tactical marines will pwn them in close combat. Hell, scouts will beat the crap out of them.

 

As for the invulnerable saves, the best thing you can do is bring a librarian with nullzone. It'll force all his units within 24" of the librarian to reroll their successful invulnerable saves. At this point, ap3/2/1 weaponry becomes way more effective against them.

 

Finally, you can kill them with standard torrent of fire shooting. Rapid fire them (bolters wound sisters on 3+) and let them fail some saves. Flamers, heavy flamers, heavy bolters, autocannons, hurricane bolters, storm bolters, hellfire ammo, etc. all work very well in this purpose.

 

Like vanilla marines, SoB are strongest when their rapid firing/flaming stuff. The trick is to do this to them before they can do it to you.