Review of Dark Creed WB novel

[minigun762]

So I just finished up Dark Creed and overall I think it was an 7.5-8.

 

Without going into any spoilers, it does a good job of building on the previous two books while still building a nice unique story.

 

Lots of things die, lots of things going boom.

Space battles, city battles, even a few Titans to spice it up.

 

I think it does the Word Bearers are just service, maintaining their position as the most organized/unified of the Legions.

[Atheist]

I think it does the Word Bearers are just service, maintaining their position as the most organized/unified of the Legions.

 

Not wanting to stray too much off topic :

 

What about us ?( IW )

 

I was under the impression that we are a very organized Legion .

[minigun762]

I think it does the Word Bearers are just service, maintaining their position as the most organized/unified of the Legions.

 

Not wanting to stray too much off topic :

 

What about us ?( IW )

 

I was under the impression that we are a very organized Legion .

 

My understanding is that IW are more organized then a cult Legion, especially since we still have a Primarch and a planet to call our own. I rank them at about the same level as the Night Lords or Black Legion, individual warbands/grand companies who are all loosely working under the same flag.

[Khaeron Baoth]

I thought that cult legions also have one homeworld inside Eye of Terror. Word Bearers have their legion still under Lorgar´s control and dark apostoles have council on their hmeworld (was it Sicarus?)

[Brother Hadafix]

I think it was a lot faster paced than Dark Disciple, and Reynolds seems good at writing up Asartes. The only problem I have is the number of questions it raises.

 

Definitely one to read, chaos fan or not. Despite the editor missing a few gaffs.

[The Nephilim]

Definitely one to read, chaos fan or not. Despite the editor missing a few gaffs.

Yeah... The one in the first chapter really put me off at first. I thought, is the rest of the book going to be like this? Thankfully, no. I finished the book two nights ago and figured I'd just add on here.

 

I'd rate it the same, 7.5-8. I don't think it was as good as Dark Apostle, but I do think it was better than Dark Disciple (even though the Dark Eldar in it were wicked awesome). Dark Creed covers mostly Apocalypse scaled combat with a few kill-team skirmishes. Open field combat is mentioned, but most of the fighting is all city-based. There are a few cool space battles and over all, it was a very good extension to Marduk's story.

 

Factions in the novel: Word Bearers, five hosts. White Consouls. Necrons.

[minigun762]

Yeah... The one in the first chapter really put me off at first. I thought, is the rest of the book going to be like this?

 

Was that the one where 2 different DA were supposedly in charge of the same Host? (11th I think).

 

That was annoying.

 

I think it was interesting to see the Necron in a light that actually makes you fear them, instead of stupid robots that are too dumb to die.

 

EDIT:

 

I think one of my favorite parts was at the very end

 

The friendly/common rivalry between Erebus and Kor Phaeron, I would have actually been annoyed if the Legion would have suffered a civil war between its two leaders but what starts out as a major concern is nothing more then a tool to oust those who are moving against the grain.

 

[Lucifer216]

Did anyone else think right at the end: "What would Honsou do?"

 

Personally if he was in Marduk's position, I could see him turn round to Erebus, say "Does Lorgar know you two have been treating his legion like it's your own personal playpen?", then head to Lorgar's personal sanctum, slap Lorgar around the head until he wakes from his mediations and explain to him the situation...

[The Nephilim]

Did anyone else think right at the end: "What what Honsou do?"

 

Personally if he was in Marduk's position, I could see him turn round to Erebus, say "Does Lorgar know you two have been treating his legion like it's your own personal playpen?", then head to Lorgar's personal sanctum, slap Lorgar around the head until he wakes from his mediations and explain to him the situation...

I don't think Honsou would survive in the WB... First of all, he's not of Lorgar's geneseed. Secondly, he'd never make it as a Dark Apostle, so he'd be a runner up for a Coryphaeus, but never selected due to his blatant disregard for authority. Eventually, he'd be included in sucicide type coteries until he was slain, if not out right slain by the Coryphaeusfor disobedience.

[Muzza]

Glad to see everyone so far likes the book, it's sitting on my to read pile at the moment (unfortunately at the bottom under 4 pratchet books, 3 physics books and the new dawkins book so it may take a while).

 

How much are the necrons involved in the plot (I don't mind spoilers)?

[Lucifer216]

The Nephilim: Personally I thought that Honsou only started "rebelling" when he was effectively was an authority figure himself, being Warsmith of his own Grand Company? In any case, I was just pointing out in a light-hearted fashion as to what could have happened if he and Marduk had more in common. More seriously, l think like Dead Sky, Black Sky, Dark Creed does much to hammer home the scale of infighting within the Chaos Legions and the sheer waste of manpower and resources it entails. As a by-product, the fact that it seems to not be noticed (or is possibly tolerated) by the daemon primarchs, really shows how little the struggle to reach Terra once more matters to them.

 

Muzza: The Necrons are involved significantly towards the end of the book. There's not much new given away, and they function purely as adversaries. The way their pursuit of their stolen artifact is handled and its behaviour is very well done.

[The Nephilim]

The Nephilim: Personally I thought that Honsou only started "rebelling" when he was effectively was an authority figure himself, being Warsmith of his own Grand Company? In any case, I was just pointing out in a light-hearted fashion as to what could have happened if he and Marduk had more in common. More seriously, l think like Dead Sky, Black Sky, Dark Creed does much to hammer home the scale of infighting within the Chaos Legions and the sheer waste of manpower and resources it entails. As a by-product, the fact that it seems to not be noticed (or is possibly tolerated) by the daemon primarchs, really shows how little the struggle to reach Terra once more matters to them.

 

I didn't mean to sound abrasive... I was just stating my views on what would happen if Honsou was magically transported into the Word Bearers.

 

As to the infighting, you're right. I've thought about it myself quite a bit. If the Legions and warbands would truly unite as a cohesive unit, and set aside their petty differences, the Imperium would burn. Unfortunately, I doubt that will ever happen. That would be like D&D Dark Elves that stopped fighting against each other.

[Lucifer216]

No offence taken! I was responding more to the fact that you started contemplating Honsou as a WB, than anything else.

 

<starts having disturbing visions of an Emperor's Children marine with 2 scimitars, white hair, black skin, who is seeking redemption and hates being mistaken for his perverted cousin>

[minigun762]

As to the infighting, you're right. I've thought about it myself quite a bit. If the Legions and warbands would truly unite as a cohesive unit, and set aside their petty differences, the Imperium would burn. Unfortunately, I doubt that will ever happen. That would be like D&D Dark Elves that stopped fighting against each other.

 

I've always been annoyed by this to some degree because it seems like its the exact same logic that gets applied to the Orks.

 

If Chaos/Orks weren't fighting as many Chaos/Orks as they were Imperials, they would win.

[The 13th Goat]

Kor Bador has to rank up their with Honsou as my favorite Chaos Warriors. Seeing them in action is always a joy.

 

As for the book, it will in the very least hopefully lead to future books where we might actually see living legends like Abaddon, something that has been LONG overdue.

[DarKHaZZ13]

I thought it was pretty damn decent...the first book was probably the best...however it concentrated far to much on the imperial guard, who i did not give a damn about tbf.

Kol Badar is awesome...especiallly at the end with his twisted loalty to Madruk

I was highly dissapointed with Buris though, should go join the EC if he's gonna be that arrogant

[randian]

While overall I liked the book, there were several things that bugged me:

 

1) The near identical and redundant descriptions of Erebus in the first and last chapters. Total waste of space.

2) I still have no idea what a "Master of the Faith" actually does. Heck, I have no idea what Erebus' duties are, other than giving orders and making sure to look well oiled and dead-faced.

3) Other than "burn, maim, kill" I am no more informed on the actual beliefs and practices of the Word Bearers than I was before I read the book.

[Trel]

I liked the book, I like the series so far, I like the over-arching structure of Marduk's career. I like how he always seems to end the books sitting on a throne like Conan the Barbarian, except he's wearing a wicked grin...and also a fur pimp-hat...throwing gang signs.

 

I especially like how the series grew out of what could have essentially been a standalone book. I prefer book series where each volume can stand on its own merit.

 

There were a few things that bugged me:

 

I thought that the Kor Phaeron - Erebus tiff was given too much credence. What should have been some political machination ended up more or less pooh-pooh'ing the entire plot of the series. "Oh, yeah, we totally knew about that, we just needed to sacrifice hundreds of brothers and a fleet to prove it."

 

I thought the Necrons came off as a little too unstoppable. (This section of the book was read by me not without some bitter irony, as I play Necrons, who are currently borderline un-usable.)

 

I would have preferred to see a little more of the 'faith' aspect of the legionnaires' day-to-day operation. For a Legion that embraced the worship of Chaos so wholeheartedly it didn't seem like they were really all that pious. (as opposed to the Legions who use Chaos as a tool, like the Iron Warriors, or Legions like the Night Lords who actively spurn faith.) It would have been nice to read more about Kol Badar's apparent crisis of faith. It would have been nice to read more about the nature of the burgeoning schism in the Legion. The whole thing seemed a little murky to me.

 

I tried to write it off as a biting satire of many real-world religious organizations where the leaders are often the least faithful of the lot: i.e. rank-and-file Word Bearers may worship devoutly, but those in the higher ranks know it's all rubbish and instead play their religious power-games for their own aggrandizement. That argument didn't really fit, though.

 

Other than that, though. Good book, excellent series, and one I'm looking forward to reading more of.

 

Edit: regarding the Master of the Faith and his duties, there is a Masonic title of the same name who, as I am led to believe, is responsible for making sure that all Lodge brothers are aware of Masonic tenets and do not get their details confused. It ensures that everyone's always on the same page and prevents schisms from getting past the 'minor disagreement' stage.

 

Kor Phaeron, as the Word Bearers' Master of the Faith probably has the same duties: keep a master copy of Lorgar's copious writings and the Legion-approved interpretation's thereof. Erebus, on the other hand, as First Chaplain has a more hands-on role in maintaining the piety of the individual Marines. Both are powerful positions acting as intermediaries between Lorgar and the Legion. It would be pretty natural that they come in conflict.

[IronWinds]

First of all, he's not of Lorgar's geneseed.

 

He's not of Perturabo's either. I also don't think Honsue would make it very far. DAs seem to get thier titles by killing the guy above them. Honsue having to kill the Warsmith.... yea that would not have happened. He got the job because the warsmith left and everyone better suited was dead. And while I also like Honsue in fighting he sucks at negotiations/politics and IMO has a tendancy to be overconfident and screw things up.

 

Anyways... Loved Dark Creed. I couldn't put it down, and that is strange for me.

 

Spoilers: I loved when they teleported nukes onto that ship... we should do that more often.

 

One thing really troubles me. The Nexus. Am I the only one who was thinking... HOLY CRAP Necrons have a device that does that? If they mass produced them they could take out every other race with ease. The greatest threat to the crons is the warp and they have actually found a way to cut it off. They really don't need a whole lot of them, just a few, activate one in a sector while you clean house then leave, no enemy ships would be able to keep up with you... since necrons have the only ships w/ interstellar non-warp drives. That and necrons have the most powerful ships to begin with. I'm hoping necrons have half that cool stuff with a new codex. I loved how the lord had tomb spyder legs instead of being on a destroyer body. My binoic demon prince is similar, and I really hope they make a necron lord model that is like that.

 

One thing I thought was really weird. When the white consuls were in the temple and the necrons were coming... they said the necron just kept coming and getting closer. There was little to nothing about them shooting. Necrons are going to kill most of their enemies in shooting, not beating their heads in.

 

Finally also liked how the necron guns affected terminator armor. Hope the necrons in their next codex have anything close to that.

 

I thought the Necrons came off as a little too unstoppable. (This section of the book was read by me not without some bitter irony, as I play Necrons, who are currently borderline un-usable.)

 

When they outnumber their enemy that much... they should be. And necrons are un-usable because the rules in the necron codex don't fit with 5th ed in any way. Honestly they should be stubborn or fearless, their guns need to be better against tanks again, and then need something... anything ap2. Stubborn and guass=rending would fix crons really quick and not be overpowering. Hopefully they will get a codex soon, I play them as well and reading dark creed makes me want to play them again.

[Terminatorinhell]

Marduk is a beast of a marine and I just love how he can obliterate anyone, sneaky or downright brutal, I haven't read Dark Creed yet but I am so looking forward to it after finals!

[BaconMakinWeedeater]

What bothered me the most about the whole series, and especially highlighted in DC, was

the ridiculous amount of casualties the Host seems to be able to sustain. It seems in every book the Anointed get horribly mauled and lose a considerable amount of precious Terminator armor. How can they afford to lose so many of the irreplacable suits?

[minigun762]

What bothered me the most about the whole series, and especially highlighted in DC, was

the ridiculous amount of casualties the Host seems to be able to sustain. It seems in every book the Anointed get horribly mauled and lose a considerable amount of precious Terminator armor. How can they afford to lose so many of the irreplacable suits?

 

I could understand that. Of course they seem to have fairly large numbers so when a handful of Terminators are lost, its not quite as bad as it seems.

 

 

The end battle with the Necron Lord was fairly epic, apparently Necrons in the fluff are alot tougher then on the tabletop since he fought like a metal skinned Eldar. Low I value my butt!

 

 

I actually was more worried/impressed by the amount of ships lost

 

I know that they're traitors/heretics to the Legion but did you really have to destroy 1/2 dozen capital ships to prove your point?

 

[The Nephilim]

What bothered me the most about the whole series, and especially highlighted in DC, was

the ridiculous amount of casualties the Host seems to be able to sustain. It seems in every book the Anointed get horribly mauled and lose a considerable amount of precious Terminator armor. How can they afford to lose so many of the irreplacable suits?

Answer: Ghalmek is a forge-world in the Maelstrom. They've got their own factories pumping out their own gear.

 

WB Marine in TDA: "Oh noes! I've been nuked."

WB Dark Apostle: "We have the technology. We can rebuild him. Bigger. Faster. Stronger."

[LordGates]

Terminator Armor cannot be replaced, hence the reason it is so rare and fought over.

 

After reading this, I am most definitely going to pick up this book. I read the first two and loved them, and I am also a stalwart fan of Honsou. In all honesty, I am hoping that the ending of the Honsou series happens with an epic showdown between Ventris and Honsou, and Honsou smashes his face in. (In a majestic and awesome manner of course.)

[The Nephilim]

Terminator Armor cannot be replaced, hence the reason it is so rare and fought over.

 

After reading this, I am most definitely going to pick up this book. I read the first two and loved them, and I am also a stalwart fan of Honsou. In all honesty, I am hoping that the ending of the Honsou series happens with an epic showdown between Ventris and Honsou, and Honsou smashes his face in. (In a majestic and awesome manner of course.)

 

"It must be noted that there is no such thing as a "new" suit of Terminator armour. Like cathedrals, they are in a constant state of repair and renewal. If an additional suit is required it is cobbled together from refurbished parts salvaged from the remains of Marines killed in action. This explains the frequently disparate and ragged look of Terminator squads. Of course new components are produced, but the expense is so great that it is avoided if at all possible. Indeed, as time marches onward the knowledge of how to fabricate some of the more complex pieces becomes an increasingly faded memory in the decrepit minds of the Adeptus Mechanicus, and "reverse engineering" is an all too common science in the 41st millennium."

 

Sounds to me like it can be replaced, though it's difficult. I'm just saying it can be done.