Konrad Curze/Night Lords descendants

[Walter Payton]

Right, we know that the Night Lords were filled with murderers and thieves, but also rapists. Is it possible that: A: people descended from a Night Lord are still roaming the Imperium or B: Someone descended from Night Haunter himself is roaming the Imperium?

 

Also, is it possible that Konrad Curze survived the attack by the Callidus? Is he still about? What is his affiliation? In Lords of the Night he is described as having dual personality. Could it be that he is still a vigilante, roaming the Imperium? After all, only Night Haunter (the evil half) is described as having died, could it be that Konrad Curze (the good half) is still alive?

 

Your thoughts, only a primarch descendant would be a great Legendary Formation,but I won't go against fluff.

[Brother Nihm]

If BL stories is anything to go by, there are still original Night Lords around. Check the short-story: Nightfall, in Heroes of the Space Marines.

 

Also, is it possible that Konrad Curze survived the attack by the Callidus?

Anything is possible but for this I'd have to say no, he's stone dead.

 

Why? Because his own beliefs would not have let him survive the confrontation with M'Shen.

 

While I do like the idea of a split personality, Konrad only comes across as such in Lord of the Night, in other works he appears to be quite lucid.

[Legatus]

Right, we know that the Night Lords were filled with murderers and thieves, but also rapists. Is it possible that: A: people descended from a Night Lord are still roaming the Imperium

Space Marines are not born and cannot be bred. They are created via a complicated bio-surgical method and are implanted with distinct organs that are grown for that procedure. In current 40K (M41, "now") it is only possible to create a Marine from a 12-14 year old child, since the organs and implants have to be grown into the human body as it developes. Apparently it was possible during the time of the great crusade and the heresy (M31) to change a grown man into a Marine.

So it may have been possible for Great Crusade/Heresy Night Lords to still beat (I doubt it, based on the dsescription of Marines cereation today), but their offspring would be indistinguishable from other human children and would just be orphans or bastards. There would be nothing "Night Lord" about them, they would not have any biological feature of Marines, no personal affinity for crime or heresy greater than that of any other human of low status birth.

 

 

or B: Someone descended from Night Haunter himself is roaming the Imperium?

Primarch social life has not been described in much detail, but seeing how they are drastically different from regular humans, I would suspect that they could not interbreed with them. I also doubt that they would feel the need to. The Emperor put so much divine purpose into their creation, and possible human female companions would only live a fraction of the lifespan of a Primarch, so it would appear as an oversight on behalf of the Emperor to me if Primarchs felt the urge to bond or mate with human females.

 

 

Also, is it possible that Konrad Curze survived the attack by the Callidus?

A lot is "possible", but since I can remember (which is 2nd Edition 40K from back in the 90es) GW has made a point in the Night Lords back story to have Night Haunter let himself be killed by an Imperial Assassin. It would be a pretty heavy retcon and tunr around of their fluff if GW suddenly decided that Night Haunter is still around after all.

[Walter Payton]

However, The EC certainly feel desire. In Ragnar's Claw, Ragnar feels desire for Karah, indicating that it is a psychological rather than physical thing that means most SMs don't. And don't the EC have sex in Fulgrim, when Krynska performs the Miraviglia? And I am not saying that their children would be exceptional, but I imagine they would have a greater capacity ofr heresy due to the genetic mutations caused by Chaos

 

I am willing to concede Night Haunter dies, although he certainly has a split personailty- on Nostramo he was a benevolent and kind ruler sometimes, and a ruthless tyrant the next. Within his personalities he was lucid, but he still see-sawed between lucid righteous and lucid evil. Plus he had visions, especially the one when he met the Emperor, and he tried to claw his own eyes out.

 

As for interbreeding, beat is not breeding, as breeding implies willing participation of both partners. I imagine the Night Lords and Curze were so debased that the considerations you describe would escape them. A child of a primarch WOULD be exceptional as they would have the Emperor's DNA. Oh, and the Emperor had children-Star Child Cycle.

[Legatus]

As for interbreeding, beat is not breeding, as breeding implies willing participation of both partners.

My bad. I thought "breeding" was a more neutral and technical term that described the creation of offspring.

[Artein]

The more important question:

Can Primarchs have children?

[Walter Payton]

My bad. I thought "breeding" was a more neutral and technical term that described the creation of offspring.

 

Forgive my word pedantry. The question is not really whether or not Konrad wanted to propagate, more that he wanted to , ahem, have fun, for want of a better word that describes the horror of beat.

 

As for the primarchs having children, of course they can't. They dont have wombs! :-) I know what you mean though. I think that they probably could. After all they were the Emperors clone sons, and the Emperor definetely had kids.

[Legatus]

Allthough, the background about the children of the Emperor comes from a time where Space Marines had no different life spans than other humans and where a "Primarch" was just the Marine Commander that had founded the Chapter. Both Marines and Primarchs have become more super-human with 2nd Edition, where in 1st Edition they were just really tough space grunts.

[Havokas]

nobody ever remembers original fluff where space marines were castrated so they couldn't breed.

all except the space wolves

[Walter Payton]

Awww, goddammnit

[Capt. Lysander]

I don't think grown men could be changed to a Marine, even during the Great Crusade. I believe in one of the Dark Angel books, it was impossible to change some of the older applicants.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I don't think grown men could be changed to a Marine, even during the Great Crusade. I believe in one of the Dark Angel books, it was impossible to change some of the older applicants.

 

According to Tales of Heresy, the SW story, grown men are successfully turned into marines. though to be fair, most dont survive the process. i forgot if the exact ratio is mentioned.

 

WLK

[Aqui]

My bad. I thought "breeding" was a more neutral and technical term that described the creation of offspring.

 

Forgive my word pedantry. The question is not really whether or not Konrad wanted to propagate, more that he wanted to , ahem, have fun, for want of a better word that describes the horror of beat.

 

As for the primarchs having children, of course they can't. They dont have wombs! :-) I know what you mean though. I think that they probably could. After all they were the Emperors clone sons, and the Emperor definetely had kids.

 

I don't know about current canon, but in the older fluff that Gw did it stated that the Emperor did have children, and although they were all long lived, they were also sterile. They were/are referred to collectively as the Sensei IIRC - whom the Illuminati wanted to sacrifice to bring about the Star Child who would be the resurrection of the Emperor. As for the Primarchs....I'm not sure about it, but it is a possibility I suppose....

 

I could be wrong.....my memory isn't what it once was ;) lol

[Aqui]

I don't think grown men could be changed to a Marine, even during the Great Crusade. I believe in one of the Dark Angel books, it was impossible to change some of the older applicants.

 

According to Tales of Heresy, the SW story, grown men are successfully turned into marines. though to be fair, most dont survive the process. i forgot if the exact ratio is mentioned.

 

WLK

 

They were turned in to Marines for example Luther of the Dark Angels, but they were never as powerful as Marines (even though they themselves were still very powerful beings) who were turned when adolescents, as the geneseed etc works better with an adolescents body as it is still growing and is better able to syncronise with it.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I don't think grown men could be changed to a Marine, even during the Great Crusade. I believe in one of the Dark Angel books, it was impossible to change some of the older applicants.

 

According to Tales of Heresy, the SW story, grown men are successfully turned into marines. though to be fair, most dont survive the process. i forgot if the exact ratio is mentioned.

 

WLK

 

They were turned in to Marines for example Luther of the Dark Angels, but they were never as powerful as Marines (even though they themselves were still very powerful beings) who were turned when adolescents, as the geneseed etc works better with an adolescents body as it is still growing and is better able to syncronise with it.

 

The SW soldiers turned Marines have no mention of not being as powerful as regular Marines that i remember. (just another way SW is better than DA methinks ;) )

 

WL

[Aqui]

I don't think grown men could be changed to a Marine, even during the Great Crusade. I believe in one of the Dark Angel books, it was impossible to change some of the older applicants.

 

According to Tales of Heresy, the SW story, grown men are successfully turned into marines. though to be fair, most dont survive the process. i forgot if the exact ratio is mentioned.

 

WLK

 

They were turned in to Marines for example Luther of the Dark Angels, but they were never as powerful as Marines (even though they themselves were still very powerful beings) who were turned when adolescents, as the geneseed etc works better with an adolescents body as it is still growing and is better able to syncronise with it.

 

The SW soldiers turned Marines have no mention of not being as powerful as regular Marines that i remember. (just another way SW is better than DA methinks ;) )

 

WL

 

Possibly :) However, I've just found this on Lexicanum (and I realise that because it isn't GW canon, that it's open to interpretation....)

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Angels

 

"Caliban was made the homeworld of the Dark Angels and the whole of the Order moved to join the ranks of the Astartes. Those knights who were still young enough had the Legion's gene seed implanted within them. Those too old for this process underwent surgery to transform them into elite warriors of the Imperium. Although they were not full Space Marines, their enhancements granted them special abilities and a lifespan beyond those of normal men. The first to be brought into the Legion in this way was Luther, who became Jonson's second-in-command, just as he always had been within the Order."

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

yea, that is also echoed in the DA HH books, where one of the DA captains is a augumented humans, who is towered over by his Marines and those of whatever other Legion they were currently working with.

but this just shows the Rule of Cool all Space Wolves follow.

 

WLK

[Beef]

The closest warrior of Russ's tribe were to old for the marine geneseed but the pleaded with him to allow it, A very small percentage survived the process. All that shows it that gene seed can be implanted into grown men, BUt the chances of succes are so slim it better to do it to youths.

 

also Sw are always mentioned as having sexual fealing s towrds women. Hell A SW lord made a casual pass at a women (only problem was it was not a women but a demon/alien thing)

 

Also did'nt the sallies when retired go back to nocturn and start families. But thats really old fluff from the days of zoats, squats, star child and the sensai.

 

Maybe not all chapters steralise thier marines