Ragnars Claw Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I've been looking at Thunderwolves recently and i'm struggling to see why you would take a thunderwolf mounted character in preference to a unit of thunderwolves? (from an effectiveness point of view). A tooled up wolf lord on thunderwolf is about 275 points. You could get 4 thunder wolves with thunder hammer, storm shield and a melta bomb for the same price. More wounds, more damage output potential. Why take the character? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldenhaller Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 A couple of things spring to mind - Initiative, Give the lord a frost blade and he attacks before most things - Targetting...more bodies mean more oppertunities to be shot - 2+ runic armour saves... ~O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2236518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnars Claw Posted January 6, 2010 Author Share Posted January 6, 2010 Not a bad start <_< I'm hoping to be convinced as i have (what i think) is a great conversion in mind but am finding it hard to justify doing it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2236528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 you have to take a HQ , there is no going around it . you dont have to take a unit of ctw . but it is not always like this . if the option is a HQ[second, third etc] that will have no unit to go with , it is offten more wise to take a unit [specially if it is good and scoring] . the only HQs that can run around alone are 4 or more wounds and immune to instant deaths[more or less MC HQ]. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2236534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Err... I take both. A properly equipped lord on a thunderwolf is the killiest thing in the whole space wolves army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2236583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldenhaller Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Wolf lord, Thunderwolf, Frost blade, belt of russ, runic armour, saga of the warrior born, nuff said ~O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2236623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgambit Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 He makes a good point but I think it depends on your army list. If you wan to take a cheap HQ to fill the slot and go with like a rune priest to sit back and shoot with some long fangs or to provide storm caller for footsloggers it's not a bad idea. The TWC will provide more wounds overall even if they don't have an invul save and can put out a good amount of attacks and no one model can be singled out in CC. However, if you are trying to run a screen of Fenrisian Wolves then IMO a wolf lord is a must for his 10 LD. Fen wolves get shot to pieces and with their terrible leadership will often break, but that can be avoided most of the time with a LD 10 WL accompanying them. Each one has their place and it just depends on the points cost. For my 13th army I sometimes use a WL+15 fen wolves to rush as a screen and other times I go for a rune priest with LL who sits with my Long Fangs and in that case I can afford to put out some converted wulfen that are TWC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2236666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander alexander Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Personal setup for a thunderwolf lord (I would use him to kill really nasty characters, monstrous creatures etc.): -Lord -plasma pistol -frost axe -runic armor -thunderwolf mount -woolftooth necklace -Belt of Russ - Saga of the Warrior Born ( Or any of the sagas for that matter, for how he is equipped, he doesnt need it, and might do better with one of the others) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2236733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 You NEED an HQ slot for the army, you dont NEED a fast attack choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2236837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natanael Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I think the I5 is the "most" (maybe not, but for me it is a big deal) valid points here. With a frost blade he is S6, with a wolf claw he is S5 w/ re-rolls to hit. In my book this guy can take on a marine squad without support, and has just enough killyness to kill them in two rounds of combat, saving him from the enemy shooting. I'd go FB, PP, BoR, Saga of the Warriorborn/Bear (depending on if you're up against a lot of fists), TWM, 1 Fen wolf and then that's it. Great guy, this one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2236981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightrunner Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Why take an IC over the unit? Well, there are lots of reasons. 1) An IC has move through cover. I always find that my TWC unit gets slowed dramatically when they hit some terrain; not always useful. 2) Higher Initative is a big boost with any CC weapon that isn't the 'fist or hammer. 3) With Runic armour and a SS, you dramatically increase the survivability of the model; suddenly, lots of high AP, high strength shots doesn't do the trick any more. Chuck in some wolves for good measure if you are feeling like splurging on points! 4) You hit harder in combat, with higher WS and (usually) a WTN to hit on a 3+. What's not to love? 5) You can actually hide this unit; not only in terms of behind terrain etc, but you can stick him in a unit if you need to give him some cover or boost another unit. Sure, to make of his massive charge range, he will have to leave. However, this can certainly save him from being a KP to long-range fire, or as a disuasion from charging a unit on an objective. Much more versatile!!!! I personally really like the lone, IC on a massive wolf idea ;) Mine usually runs with a single Wolf Claw, shield, Runic armour, saga of the Beastslayer and a 'necklace. As it is accepted here (following the INAT FAQ) that the IC gets the same >S10 instant-death immunity as Canis and "basic" TWC, he can usually run around and do a lot of damage. Again, personally, I find that with 6 attacks, I want the re-roll to hit from the claw. Against tougher opponents, I get the re-roll from the saga (at 10pts, why not?) and use the claw for the wound re-roll. This combo works particularly well against nurgle marines, and the runic armour and shield combo is more than enough to see him through without saga of the warrior born and other such nonsense. If you are using him just to hunt massive creatures (nids, anyone?) then you can always lose the runic armour, as it is useless against MC's in combat. Not a bad lord for an all-rounder force at 240pts (with meltabombs). NR ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2237200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 ditto all the above. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2237231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madsakre Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Canis wolfborn is cheap! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2237286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilbob Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I usually don't tool out my HQs all that much. If I want a cheap HQ to give me more room for other goodies, I take the bland Rune or Wolf priest. If I'm gonna spend a ton of points on an HQ, I just take a named one lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2237298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Who says you have to spend 275 on a killy HQ? I'm personally a big fan of cheap HQs, and I think a TWM-mounted WGBL with frostblade (total cost 135) is a great buy. Put him in a large slogging squad (say, 10 GH w/plasmaguns and a WG in termie armor w/cyclone), and suddenly you got a huge meat shield and the ability to break off during movement to assualt something that gets too close. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2237496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnars Claw Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 I thought a character on thunderwolf could only join other thunderwolf units or fenrisian wolves? I do like the idea of a wolf lord on one though. Probably with thunder hammer, storm shield, runic armour and a pet wolf to go with him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2237599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I thought a character on thunderwolf could only join other thunderwolf units or fenrisian wolves? Well, would you look at that. I never noticed that bit at the end of the thunderwolf mount entry. Good eye, Ragnar's Claw! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2237605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Again my Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf proves to be hell on wheels, and dispatches 15 blood claws and a rune priest. I always run him with a single Thunder Wolf Cavalry model, armed with a powerfist and storm shield, and they always make their points back, and then some. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2237614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Why would you need to give him Saga of the Bear when he gets his base toughness bumped up to 5? Warrior Born, Storm Shield and a Frost Blade is the win. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2237793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Why would you need to give him Saga of the Bear when he gets his base toughness bumped up to 5? Warrior Born, Storm Shield and a Frost Blade is the win. There's apparently some debate about that. Depending on his opponents, he may need it to prevent S8 weapons for IDing him. Please don't turn this into a thread on if the toughness bump counts for Instant Death, just realize that not everyone thinks as you do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2237811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I suppose you could change your Saga depending on your opponents/the tournaments interpretation Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2237867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chodjinn Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 what do people prefer; Belt of Russ and an extra CCW, or use a storm shield? My WL on TWM is having a Frost Axe, Runic Armour, WTN but I can't decide on SS or Belt of Russ/Plasma Pistol? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2237903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnars Claw Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 Personally i would go with a storm shield as the extra save is, imho, better than a potential extra attack. Especially when he would have 5 attacks base with a shield anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2237907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 And I think if your giving him a frostblade, as I would, that the extra attack is solid gold. Most players would give their eye teeth to have an HQ with 7 S 6 attacks hitting on a 3+ when they charged- at I 5 no less. I think the BOR is probly plenty of protection if you run him with some fenrisian wolves as cover. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2238085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 you have to take a Lord, the bigger and badder the better, The more points you spend and the better equipment you give him the better, Its the way of the SW. Russ would not have it any other way Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/188992-why-take-a-character-over-a-unit/#findComment-2238254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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