Two Unknown Legions

[Walter Payton]

Currently, all that is stated about this issue is:

 

The Emperor created 20 Primarchs, who were snatched from Terra by a Chaos vortex and scattered around the galaxy.

 

The 20 incubation capsules drifted through the warp for decades or even centuries, until finally coming to rest on human-inhabited worlds throughout the galaxy, "where they were variously adopted by human parents."

 

The only exception to this is the Primarch Konrad Curze, who survived utterly alone (and whose background, in any case, was only described in later material).

 

In the listings of the 20 Legions in Imperial records, Legions II and XI are stated as having "all records expunged from the library". Earlier background (Codex Imperialis and second edition's Ultramarines codex) less ambivalently states that the records for these two Legions were deleted following the Heresy. Considering that the Traitor Legions are simply listed as excommunicate traitoris but still included in these same lists would mean that the records were deleted deliberately and for a reason only known by those who perpetrated the action. Additionally, the fact that the known Traitor Legions are still listed could mean the Unknown Legions were destroyed during or following the Heresy, allowing for their complete removal from historic records.

 

Of the various abilities possessed by the Primarchs, one was "invisibility".

If this is taken literally, this presumably refers to one of the missing Primarchs, as invisibility is not a power possessed by those known. It could also mean this Primarch was a blank as such individuals are said to be invisible to psykers.

 

The Emperor met each Primarch in turn, and each Primarch had risen to a position of authority within the cultures they had found themselves in.1

20 Legions took part in the Great Crusade, each led by their own Primarch.

 

Alpharius was known to be the last Primarch to be found, a fact which even earned him the nickname "The Last". This suggests that all the other Primarchs had been found already.

 

20 statues of the Primarchs were erected in the Imperial Palace on Terra. By the time of the Horus Heresy, plinths II and XI "...had been vacant for a long time. No-one ever spoke of those two absent brothers [and] their separate tragedies."

This suggests that the two unknown Primarchs had been found previously and that something tragic had happened. The two Primarchs were "absent" but not referred as "dead".

 

All Primarchs were tempted by Chaos predations, and "fully half" of them failed that test.

 

This suggests that possibly 10 Primarchs were, in some way, corrupted by Chaos influences. The known traitors are nine (Fulgrim, Perturabo, Konrad Curze, Angron, Mortarion, Magnus, Horus, Lorgar, and Alpharius). Whether an additional Primarch was corrupted or not is unclear.

 

Prior to sending Sigismund and his Imperial Fists to Mars during the Heresy, Dorn muses to Malcador the Sigillite on the loyalist support of two legions, possibly the two unknown legions, during the Heresy. Malcador quells the Primarch's thoughts, stating that "They are lost to us forever."

 

Horus convinced "no less than 9" Space Marine Legions to side with him at the onset of the Heresy,8 a number also referred to as "fully half" of the legions.9 When he assaulted Terra, this number was given as 9.

This also implies, but does not categorically states, that the 9 known traitor legions are all of the legions that followed him into rebellion and that 18 legions were the total number of legions active at the time. A passage detailing Horus' plans for the various legions at the outset of the Heresy mentions by name all 18 known legions

 

"Of the original 20 Primarchs only 9 survived the Horus Heresy. The remainder were either killed in the fighting (like Horus) or fled with their Legions into the Eye of Terror. The survivors helped to rebuild the Imperium."

It is currently accepted that 3 Primarchs died during the Heresy (Ferrus Manus, Sanguinius, and Horus) and 6 are known to have fled into the Eye of Terror (Fulgrim, Perturabo, Angron, Mortarion, Magnus, and Lorgar). The fates of the other 11 are open to multiple interpretations.

 

Two traitors, Konrad Curze and Alpharius, did not flee into the Eye of Terror and were killed later on. 7 loyal Primarchs seem to have survived. It is possible that Kurze and Alpharius were counted as part of the 9 survivors.

 

I know there has been a lot of fan-fluff on this, including some excellent stuff by Brother-Captain Alaric.

 

I personally believe that one primarch was adopted by a chaos worshipper on their Homeworld, and another was a blank, whom the Emperor imprisoned

[Son-of-Horus]

Here's what "The Lightning Tower" had to say:

 

"The second and eleventh plinths had been vacant for a long time. No one ever spoke of those two absent brothers. Their separate tragedies had seemed like aberrations. Had they, in fact, been warnings that no one had heeded?

 

Sigismund had urged that the effigies of the traitors also be removed from the Investiary. He had offered to do the work himself. This, Dorn recalled, had made the Emperor laugh.

 

. . . .

 

'Would you tear them all down?'

 

Dorn turned at the sound of the voice. For a moment, it had sounded like the soft growl of his father.

 

But it was just a man, a cloaked and cowled man scarcely half Dorn's height. His robes were those of a simple palace administrator.

 

'What did you say?' asked Dorn.

 

The man walked out into the circle of the Investiary to face Dorn. He greeted him with the old salute of Unity rather than the sign of the aquila. 'You were staring at the statues of your kin,' he observed. 'I asked . . . would you tear them all down?'

 

'The statutes or my kin, Sigillite?' Dorn replied.

 

'Both. Either.'

 

The fact that the two are mentioned as being "absent" and not "traitors" leads me to believe that the Ruinous Power angle is not correct.

[Walter Payton]

Fair. But I find it hard to believe that 20 primarchs landed on 20 worlds and not a single one fell to chaos before.

[DeathTyrant]

Maybe one or both of them 'Went Native' having landed on an Alien controlled Planet, and have been hanging out and partying with some Eldar Babes for the last 10,000+ years?

[Brother-chaplain Astador]

The same thing that happened to Thelma & Louise.

[Raulmichile]

Fair. But I find it hard to believe that 20 primarchs landed on 20 worlds and not a single one fell to chaos before.

 

 

Even more: how did they get to land in human populated planets and not in asteroids, devoid planets, alien infested planets or even in the center of a star or black hole or something. The chance of all twenty of them landing where they landed is simply astronomically low.

[Sigismund Himself]

Fair. But I find it hard to believe that 20 primarchs landed on 20 worlds and not a single one fell to chaos before.

 

 

Even more: how did they get to land in human populated planets and not in asteroids, devoid planets, alien infested planets or even in the center of a star or black hole or something. The chance of all twenty of them landing where they landed is simply astronomically low.

To me. that suggests that something was guiding their journey in the warp.

[Tormented]

Well the chaos gods may of thought that them survivng and then later on turning against the Emperor was a betetr idea than being killed off. Which it turned out was much better for them ;)

[kil78]

Mortarion could turn invisible, he does it in flight of the esienstein

[Ollieb]

In one of the books (I forget which) it describes a seen of horus breaking one of the incubators, possibly one of the tragedies was that one of the primarchs never survived to grow old and thus his legion was dispanded. Who'd want to be the marine in a legion with no primarch?

 

And surely if one primarch was born with wings and another with 1 eye there could be another mutation? 1 to horrible to speak of? or that turned the primarch crazy?

 

And also thinking about it a space marine can only be created from a male (something to do with hormones?) But the primarch were grown from birth, maybe 1 was female?

[Capt. Lysander]

With the Lighting Tower quote, it can now be confirmed that BL doesn't think there are any female astartes? 'two absent brothers'

[Brother Captain Alaric]

A great article, to be sure. I did not know bits and pieces of this and I found it a good read. I was surprised when you mentioned me haha, I thank you for the recognition. I haven't forgotten about the project! New ideas are ever brewing in my mind and they will come forth sometime, soon hopefully. But with finals coming up and the possibility of me being casted in a new play, I will be seeing less time on my hands.

[flyingwarmonkey]

See what i don't understand is why everyone rule out the custodes say then emperor had a legion of Astartes and found that their primarch died in transit or whatever why wouldn't he just go hey you guys are my body guard I mean seems to me there is a full legion right there. why not them as a missing primarchs gene seed decendents

[Brother-chaplain Astador]

Because they have been described numerous times as being to an astartes what an astartes is to a human. So the inference is that aren't actually space marines. Not normal ones anyway. It is also written in the fluff that the the emp created them specifically to be his bodygaurd.

 

In real terms anyway the 2 missing brothers are simply a plot device, you are meant to forever wonder what happened and it gives peoplle the chance to create their own chapters/ideas/primarchs.

 

I for one hope they never reveal/create an explanation for it And I doubt they will unless the company becomes financially destitute.

 

It was.quite hard typing this on a touch screen :P "you have dialed incorrectly, your fingers are too fat"....

[Walter Payton]

Oh, I would be furious if they brought them back. The most I will tolerate is bringing the Emperor back, along with the Warmaster, and possibly mankind recovering its former technological glory, but the 2 unknown legions? As we in Scotland say: gae bile yer heid!

[Dràyhèn]

Seconded.

 

It chills down my spine to have not a scratch of information of what happened to the "missing ones", except that it was something far too terrible ever to be unveiled. Speaks volumes of something, something far more terrible than the mere betrayal of Horus.

 

One can only imagine...

[Justicar Valius]

I would never want them to reveal but perhaps a lil' bit of a hintish thing like in lightning tower would be fine.

 

There are a few options for lost primarchs:

Died before rescue

Xenos sympathiser/lover

suicide mission as speedbump to the nid's/somthing else

[Halo Bretheren]

Personally I covert the day that the missing Primarchs return and hope to find possibly; a second imperium, a haven, somewhere that when the end times occur humanity and its allies can retreat to and begin a fresh.

 

But as always sincere apologies to any who may see a different view point to myself.

[Azatoth]

Well one of the main questions seems to be, what action would lead to them being erased from history so to say.

 

Could it be that those 2 simply refused to follow the Emperor after they had been found? Maybe the abandoned the Emperor sometime during the great crusade, and that might be the crime horrible enough at that time to validate their removal from official records?

 

And they are both the driving power behind the Tau!! Just kidding :P

[Rindaris]

There are a few options for lost primarchs:

Died before rescue

 

Not an option actually, as its been stated that all 20 were found, did take command of their legions and take part in the Great Crusade.

[Rindaris]

And they are both the driving power behind the Tau!! Just kidding :lol:

 

Actually that is a possibility. One might have taken up with the Emperor and went about on his part of the Crusade and came across an Etheral and learned about 'The Greater Good', and helped the Tau advance their technology. They hide away until they are ready to advance out into space spreading 'The Greater Good'. Perhaps that primarch was a tech-savant like others were and helped prevent the loss of technology, in fact advancing what they had.

[Korraz]

There were no Etherals around, back then. Actually, at that time the tau were still animals.

 

I would love it, if the Fluff would move a little towards that. A hint in this corebook, a passage in that codex, slowly, over the years, a picture forms. Our hobby is long-living enough for hat. Simply dropping the bomb like "ye, here they are" would be just stupid.

[Azatoth]

There were no Etherals around, back then. Actually, at that time the tau were still animals.

 

I would love it, if the Fluff would move a little towards that. A hint in this corebook, a passage in that codex, slowly, over the years, a picture forms. Our hobby is long-living enough for hat. Simply dropping the bomb like "ye, here they are" would be just stupid.

 

First off I do not think that the Tau have anything to do with those 2. It should be noted though that the Ethereals appeared quite suddenly. So a possible genengineering would be possible, if those 2 escaped the general decline of technology in the Empire.

[Bartali]

The simple explanation is that the two missing legions are whatever you want them to be.

 

GW have often said they left two legions empty for the players to create their own fluff. Would you prefer GW filled in the gaps, or left it to the players imagination (as people are doing in this thread) ?

[Korraz]

The problem is, every time someone tries to fill this gap and create his own legion, it tends to become a horrible, horrible fluffabomination and ends in a Mary-Sue-Legion, which makes the tendencies of the Smurfs look like dead serious and realistic writing. And most people don't even WANT to try and use this possibility, thank god. You can create an [Origin Unknown] chapter without that Legions and it is perfectly okay. But creating a whole Legion and throw it into the fluff, even if it's only the microcosmos of your playgroup, is just, well...The Chaosplayer could say "Okay, the Chaosprimarchs are tired of sitting around, now they go and beat the empire! Try and stop them!", next to the Tyranidschap who states: "Nuff with that toying around, now a REAL hive-fleet is coming!" which makes the Necronnerd go "Have fun, fleshlings, but the Dragon goes asskicking and awakens ALL crypts over the whole galaxy" and so on. A Legion is a fluff-nuke! If one of my pals would come along with a own Legion, I would just laugh at him. It tears down the fluff, and that's one of the things that connect all warhammer-players all over the world!