Power Weapons for Tactical squads

[minigun762]

This is more of an observation then a question but I've noticed that alot of Tac squads taking Power Weapons instead of a Power Fist. Is there a reason for this?

 

I ask becasue standard Chaos logic is that Power Fist > Power Weapon 95% of the time, so I'm just curious what the logic is for Loyalists.

[JamesI]

I generally use fists over power weapons. I use power weapons basically for smaller squads where I have more reason to worry that the fist could die before he swings due to wound allocation.

[Brother Alucard]

I generally use fists over power weapons. I use power weapons basically for smaller squads where I have more reason to worry that the fist could die before he swings due to wound allocation.

 

ditto

[spartan249]

No clue. I always take Power Fists.

[IvorTangrean]

* More attacks if you commonly fight against things that have T3 then the extra attack is better than the points of strength.

 

* Cheaper at ten points less it can make a difference on whether or not you can buy something elsewhere in the army

 

* Strikes at I4 good for things that would strike at I1 - I4

[DarkGuard]

I always take power fists over power weapons on my squad. Versatile, effective, and with a big squad it is hard to kill. Power weapons do have their uses however, namely the reasons that IvorTangrean has given, but for me it' power fists for the Sergeants.

[Gearhead]

In frontline Squads, my Sarges have Powerfists every time. If they run inot something big, at least they have a shot in hell. Objective holding units (opposed to the previous objective taking units), get powerweapons as insurance. My plasma Squad is already 200 points, I'd rather not pay more points for something that won't get much use.

[Koremu]

Not too long ago I killed a wounded Carnifex off before it could strike by using a Power Sword. Fists are nice, but they come with a demanding cost so I don't always take one... but I do in 2/3rds of my Squads, at a guess.

[spjaco]

I just completed my sixth Tactical Squad before Christmas and hadnt had a chance to deploy it yet. Imagine my chagrin when Chaos Undivided popped a Defiler right next to them on turn two (apolcalypse rules).

The Sergeant had only a power weapon and I was told it wasnt even worth trying. Didnt give him melta bombs either. That I will fix before fielding them next time.

The squad held out for four turns though so they did the chapter proud.

[minigun762]

Imagine my chagrin when Chaos Undivided popped a Defiler right next to them on turn two (apolcalypse rules).

The Sergeant had only a power weapon and I was told it wasnt even worth trying. Didnt give him melta bombs either.

 

Well you always have Kraks.

 

I wouldn't rely on a 1/6 chance of hitting with a 1/6 chance of hurting and a 50% chance of ignoring that damage BUT it is something right?

[Grey Mage]

Indeed, and a chance is always better than none.

 

I take PWs in my Meltagun equiped GH packs, to give them a little more anti-infantry punch to balance out their anti tank. It seems to work pretty well for me.

 

That being said, local metagame probly has something to do with it, and the apparent difficulties in getting PF bitz for many SM players might be another contributing factor.

[DarkGuard]

Indeed, and a chance is always better than none.

 

I take PWs in my Meltagun equiped GH packs, to give them a little more anti-infantry punch to balance out their anti tank. It seems to work pretty well for me.

 

That being said, local metagame probly has something to do with it, and the apparent difficulties in getting PF bitz for many SM players might be another contributing factor.

 

Power fists are anti-everything. You are right about lack of available parts, I just scraped together 2/3 power fist models (one from my DA sprue, one from the Devy sprue and one from the Templar sprue) although I only use two of them at the moment. If the Tactical squad came with a reasonable amount of options for the Sergeant (power weapon, power fist, maybe a combi weapon or storm bolter), we might see a few more fists. Although forgive me, I'm also sure power weapons can be just as hard to come by now.

[Grey Mage]

Well the assault sprue gives what, three power weapons? Sheesh.

 

Anyways, if your short on things, ask your local veteran wolf player... most of us have extras, and all you have to do is shave down a skull a bit to make it a standard imperial power fist. *Personally Id give people the new ones, I dont like the positioning*.

[Brother_Fatiswon]

i've seen more PW in my local gaming groups as well, but myself... i play Crimson Fist Space marines so kinda part of my "fluff" ya know what i'm saying?

as for getting, i got most of mine from my 1st AoBR box set, 4 at least, and IMHO, the plastic lighting claws from the terminator Close combat box set work as power fist, if you trim and shave the "claws" leaves you with a kinda of uber brass knuckle look goin (which i like) but only IMHO.

[ShinyRhino]

I give my tactical sergeants power weapons for several reasons:

 

1. Cheaper than powerfists. The ten points allows me to buy a variety of other upgrades for other squads, where I feel they're more useful.

 

2. Synergizes better against the targets I send my tacticals against. I tend to arm my tacs with flamer/missile launcher. These two weapons are great against light infantry, which can also be handled by tacticals in assault. A power weapon won't need to roll all that high to get its wounds in, plus it gets an extra one for dual-wielding, where the fist does not. A flamer shot followed up by a charge is likely to crush a T3 unit just enough for me to clean them out in the enemy's next turn, and not suffer return fire from wiping them out in my own.

 

3. I tend to not put my tacticals up against High T units. I rely on my tactical squads to either camp my home objectives, or move to an advantageous position and fire downrange. I've got assault Marines, Dreads, and ICs to do my hand-to-hand fighting against big baddies. I also pack a LOT of anti-tank weapons in my army. The powerfist on a tac squad feels wasted if it never swings.

[minigun762]

I've got assault Marines, Dreads, and ICs to do my hand-to-hand fighting against big baddies. I also pack a LOT of anti-tank weapons in my army. The powerfist on a tac squad feels wasted if it never swings.

 

I think thats a very good reason actually. Codex Marines tend to have alot more dedicated anti-big stuff in their army (sane Dreads, TH/SS Terminators, Relic Blades etc) to the point that having an anti-big thing weapon in each squad can be overkill.

 

Also for Chaos or SW, you have 2x the amount of normal attacks which goes a long way to covering your anti-infantry needs so we can bring an anti-big thing weapon and not suffer against hordes.

Codex Marines don't have that luxury so the Power Weapon actually is a substantial bonus to their anti-infantry killing power.

[Koremu]

Fighting a small 750 game in half an hour... I've taken 2 PWs and 2 PFs, I'll see which do better.

[Koremu]

Fighting a small 750 game in half an hour... I've taken 2 PWs and 2 PFs, I'll see which do better.

Both did well. Was against Necrons, so the Initiative change was significant. The Chaplains power weapon caved a fair number of Necrons in, but it was a Fist that killed off the Lord.

[minigun762]

Fighting a small 750 game in half an hour... I've taken 2 PWs and 2 PFs, I'll see which do better.

Both did well. Was against Necrons, so the Initiative change was significant. The Chaplains power weapon caved a fair number of Necrons in, but it was a Fist that killed off the Lord.

 

In the end, thats the safest choice, take both and play them to their strengths.

[Giga]

I usually give my forward-element tactical squads power fists.

 

My defensive tactical squad sergeant usually has a chainsword (mostly because it looks cool).

 

I don't think power weapons on tactical squads are worth it. Against MEQ, they hit on 4+ and wound on 4+. So they have only 25% chance per swing to actually kill a MEQ (or an ork boy, for that matter). Against GEQ, they hit on 3+ and wound on 3+, but GEQ mostly have a 5+ or 6+ armor save anyway, so you don't really need a power sword against them.

 

On the other hand, a powerfist can do it all much better, while being extremely useful against ICs, MCs, vehicles, etc.

[Koremu]

I usually give my forward-element tactical squads power fists.

 

My defensive tactical squad sergeant usually has a chainsword (mostly because it looks cool).

I go pretty much the opposite way. Forward element Tactical Squads (read: objective jumpers) get a Power Sword as they are most likely operating in close support of other elements that have Power Fists or their equivalent.

 

Rear objective campers get a Fist as they are more likely to have to go it alone and need the facility.

[greatcrusade08]

I used to always take fists on my tac sergeants but i have started to use PW on them.

The main reason was the minis, i love the MkII vets and most come with PW so i use them as sergeants.

 

The way i see it is tac squads are best used shooting, let the assault squads deal with assault. the PW are there just incase you need to assault or get assaulted, i always put meltabombs just incase i need them so it only works 5 points less than PF.

However against AV14 the meltabombs have the edge over fists so its swings and roundabouts.

 

My dice rolls suck so i prefer to roll more :lol:

[Cadarn]

I take a PW for a few reasons.

 

Flexibility - Getting to use their initiative is very handy for getting some decent hits in, especially with an extra attack. A Power Fist, while handy against armour and high toughness creatures, isn't going to make a whole lot of difference against Tau, Eldar or Guard infantry. It could even be considered overkill against MEQ, but that's a matter for debate (and possibly mathammer).

 

Looks - Swords and Axes just look cool. Simple as.

 

Diversity - I don't want all of my Tactical squads to look exactly the same. Sure, having a sergeant or two with a Fist is fine. but Space Marine sergeants are heroes and the leaders of heroes. They have their own stories and heraldry and I want my tactical squads to reflect this. It might not make them as powerful on the table-top, but it makes them more interesting and thus appeal to me more.

[greatcrusade08]

Diversity - I don't want all of my Tactical squads to look exactly the same. Sure, having a sergeant or two with a Fist is fine. but Space Marine sergeants are heroes and the leaders of heroes. They have their own stories and heraldry and I want my tactical squads to reflect this. It might not make them as powerful on the table-top, but it makes them more interesting and thus appeal to me more.

 

Cadarn is more poetic than me, so ill second this :D

[Giga]

Diversity - I don't want all of my Tactical squads to look exactly the same. Sure, having a sergeant or two with a Fist is fine. but Space Marine sergeants are heroes and the leaders of heroes. They have their own stories and heraldry and I want my tactical squads to reflect this. It might not make them as powerful on the table-top, but it makes them more interesting and thus appeal to me more.

I think the opposite.

 

Unless we're talking space wolves, or some particularly distinguished heroes (such as Calgar, Vulkan, etc.), Space Marines should have whatever gear best suits the current situation. Codex Space Marines are an organized army, the best of the best troops. Their veterans are proficient with every weapon and can make great use of whatever weapon best suits the mission at hand.

 

This is particularly true of sergeants, who are veterans with enough experience and leadership skills, they're assigned to lead less experienced brethren to battle. In other words, sergeants have a much higher responsibility then most other members of the 1st company. For them to stoop so low so as to use some weapon "because it's their preference" is unacceptable to a serious marine force.

 

Those veterans who find themselves unable to adapt to every style of combat are usually seconded into Sternguard (for those more inclined to shoot stuff) or Vanguard (for those more inclined to assault thingies), which is where they can have a pick of gear and use whatever they want.