GreyHunters gettings pwnd

[ironking]

Played my list for the first time yesterday:

 

HQ

Rune Priest

TDA, Storm Bolter, Runic Weapon, Wolftooth necklace, CotS, JotWW, LL

 

Wolf Priest (Attached to SkyClaws)

Runic Armor, Jump pack, Crozium, Wolftooth necklace, SotBS

 

ELITES

5 Wolf Guard (Attached as Pack Leaders - see Troops & Heavy Support)

(1 WG left over - TDA, Storm Bolter, Frost Blade)

 

FAST ATTACK

5x SkyClaws

1x melta, 1x powersword, 1x MotW

 

TROOPS

3 squads of:

 

1x Rhino

1x WG

Power Armor, Storm Bolter, Frost weapon,

9x GH

1x melta, 1x powersword, 1x Wolf Standard, 1x MotW

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

1x WG

Terminator Armor, Cyclone Missile Launcher, Combi-Melta, Frost weapon

6x LF

1x Missile Launchers

 

 

For some reason beyond reason I was allied to Orks - we fought against Ranger Eldar and Grey Knights. We played Dawn of War, Capture the Fort / Protect your Fort or something like that.

 

I put my long fangs and a set of GH in Rhino on our objective. The rest of my force was deployed as close to the enemy objective and we rushed it. The pure force of dice rolls won the day as hundreds of green flesh shields and cannon fodder overwhelmed the GK's.

 

Their objective was guarded by INQ + Retinue (2x plasma cannons, rerolls etc), 1x pointy eared snipers and 1 squad of 10 GK. I should have placed my CotS near the objective, but forgot - and he DS his GK termies in right behind it - and they really really gave us a hard time - those 2+ saves and S6 attacks are almost as devastating as Sterns mind blast HUGE TEMPLATE attack.

 

FOOLISH THINGS

Foolish thing no. 1:

I forgot quite a few things that would have changed the game dynamic - like CotS - never used it, which was dumb.

 

Foolish thing no. 2:

I attacked a GK terminator squad led by Captain Stern with my WP + Skyclaws

 

Foolish thing no. 3:

I allowed an entire squad of GH to get wasted by an inquisitorial retinue and Sterns mind blast attack - and here is why it was foolish - I forgot that if an enemy within 18" of a Rune Priest tries to use a psychic ability it can be negated on a roll of 3 I think.

 

Foolish thing no. 4:

I forgot my WP was wearing Runic Armor and was rolling 3+ armor saves instead of 2+.

 

 

COOL THINGS:

Cool thing no. 1:

Long Fangs the 5 missile launchers + 2 Cyclone attacks - awesome! I took out a squad of Eldar ranges, forced another to ground and wiped out a squad of Inq. Storm Troopers.

 

Cool thing no. 3:

MotW - d6 + 1 attacks... +2 attacks on the charge for your skyclaws - I rolled a 6 = 9 rending attacks - took apart the first GK marines I faced. Plus reroll for misses because of WP! Just wish the Priests had higher initiative, I4 is a bit low for the points I think.

 

Cool thing no. 4:

Living lightning and JotWW - very cool, but not very successful against GK as they can also negate psyker attacks with a Leadership Roll Showdown!

 

Cool thing no. 5:

Playing with orky allies - I was shocked by the number of orks on the board - and when they waargh and attack in cc - it took about an hour for the first round - just rolling all those damn toadstools!

 

I was playing proxy models - DEF. not WYSIWYG which was irksome... it irked me - and no doubt led to my forgetting important factors.

 

Thats all.

[Grey Mage]

1) Keep your cool. Believe it or not more people play with proxies and counts as then dont. Even so, it doesnt do to let ones frustrations keep them from doing what needs to be done eh?

2) Everyone is on the way to I 4 priests now, and yes it sucks.

3) You should really reread the codex a couple times before you play again.

4) You might want to try some smaller games, like 750, and 1 on 1 to get yourself some more tactical acumen. Trust me... youll remember alot more after youve done it a bit longer.

5) Dont give WG a frostweapon and storm bolter- your paying to cheating yourself of valuable attacks for a weapon thats not much better than the standard bolter they could get for free.

 

Welcome to the fang! Boars next to the tubers on the left hand table, grab an ale and sit down.

 

Thats all.

[ironking]

Oh boy! a reply.

 

thanks for the kind words.

 

1) i hate proxies - when someone pulls out an egg box and says - oh this is my landraider - aaargh, im fairly decent with scratch building (by fairly decent I mean im ok considering im green with mini's) so if i can do it, so can most people

 

2) sucky

 

3) i agree - i have only read it 2 or 3 times while putting the list together

 

4) i rely on a friend for organising games - i have play 3 games in my life (incl. the one above) - if he doesn't organise, i dont play - time, family, work etc.

 

5) tell me more about why I shouldn't give a WG a frostweapon and storm bolter - the FW gives them +1 strength to attack with - nice. the storm bolter give 2 S4 attacks - nice... points wise i had some to throw around but im open to suggestion.

 

Things I might do differently.

 

I might break 1 GH squad into 2 squads of 5 with a WGPL ie. double up on MotW units - they really really really worked for me. Worst case scenario you get d6 +1 (+1 assault/counter-attack) - so the worst is you get 3 rending attacks - best case 8 rending attacks - unless you're bloodclaw or skyclaw = 9 rending - throw in a banner and you're rerolling to hit when it really counts.

 

Have 2 squads of WG = 1x 5 for the cyclone, 1x 3 - double on MotW and add the 2 MotW WG to the 2 MotW GH squads making 12 heavy hitting close combat squads with a min. of 12 rending attacks btwn them.

[Grey Mage]

"Scratch building" is another way of proxying- its not the official model, just something similar. You are within your rights to ask that they have a somewhat accurate proxy- example, a shoebox is unlikely to have the same dimensions as a landraider, but a coke bottle properly cut and spray painted is about the same size as a drop pod.

 

I can understand... time is precious for alot of people these days. You might ask your friend to play a game just with yourself so you can get more of they hang of your army.

 

The reason is a bolt pistol would give you 3 S 5 attacks that ignore armor in close combat, while a storm bolter gives you two s 4 attacks that dont ignore armor at range- but since your squads are mounted in rhinos for the most part your going to be moving 12" wich means you wont be able to fire that storm bolter anyways. Throw in the fact that if your assaulting the enemy your only losing one shot by firing the bolt pistol instead of a stormbolter and to me it becomes obvious that its not a bargain to increase his points to decrease what hes best at- eviscerating the enemy with a five foot long diamond bladed chainsaw.

 

I dont care for MotW- Id rather have power weapons- I prefer the security of knowing that I will be ignoring armor saves to the 1 in 6 chance of perhaps ignoring armor saves. Unless your fighting a Wraithlord theres not really any advantage that I see in it- but if your dice favor the tactic then more power to you.

[hendrik]

i find the lone wolf guard disturding actually because i'm pretty sure when the opponent manages to kill him he get's a kill point. now i can see you want the heavy weapon but imo you don't need it,considering you already took 6 long fangs

[ironking]

The reason is a bolt pistol would give you 3 S 5 attacks that ignore armor in close combat

 

ah, ah... ah - I friggen understand! I totally get it now - for 2 cc weapons - you get 2 cc attacks +1 on charge - but you count them all as frost blade S5, ignore armor attacks - I don't think I would have figured that out by myself for quite a while - thanks for that!

 

On the Rhino's - because the board we played was only about 48 x 96 inches the rhinos were fairly useless and ended up getting in the way a lot (ie. 2x 48"²).

 

They didn't draw fire, give fire support or provide decent cover - but maybe thats just my inexperience talking. I suspect a whirlwind would have been much more useful.

 

The next game I play will be vs nids - so im thinking lots and lots of flamers, and maybe a landraider redeemer. Im also considering a small Blood Claws unit solely to add Lukas the Trikster in... he has some really fun things going for him - its either him or a wolf lord with frost blade and 2 fen wolves... its just an idea - meh!

[Grey Mage]

Lukas does have alot of good things going for him... hes also very expensive. If you take him, I reccomend taking a very cheap HQ. Personally, Id rather have the Wolf Lord.

 

As for against nidz in general, remember to bring long fangs and some plasma, because monstrous creatures will take the wound at most from your flamers and then assault you anyways. Massed fire over a couple turns is best.

[Chodjinn]

er, for reding attacks isn't it just D6 + 1? As in, you don't get the +2 for charge?

[lordsloth]

The reason is a bolt pistol would give you 3 S 5 attacks that ignore armor in close combat

 

ah, ah... ah - I friggen understand! I totally get it now - for 2 cc weapons - you get 2 cc attacks +1 on charge - but you count them all as frost blade S5, ignore armor attacks - I don't think I would have figured that out by myself for quite a while - thanks for that!

 

As a general rule for melee killyness:

Dual Wolf Claw > Frost Axe w extra ccw > Single Wolf Claw > Frost Axe

 

So if you do take the stormbolter, change your frost axe to a wolf claw.

[CainTheHunter]

er, for reding attacks isn't it just D6 + 1? As in, you don't get the +2 for charge?

 

 

"These attacks are (...) not affected by wargear (...) though they may be bolstered by other factors (the bonus for charging, (...)"

Codex: SW, p.62.

[Wildfire]

The reason is a bolt pistol would give you 3 S 5 attacks that ignore armor in close combat

 

ah, ah... ah - I friggen understand! I totally get it now - for 2 cc weapons - you get 2 cc attacks +1 on charge - but you count them all as frost blade S5, ignore armor attacks - I don't think I would have figured that out by myself for quite a while - thanks for that!

 

As a general rule for melee killyness:

Dual Wolf Claw > Frost Axe w extra ccw > Single Wolf Claw > Frost Axe

 

So if you do take the stormbolter, change your frost axe to a wolf claw.

 

You forgot about powerfists, which I'd put in above dual wolf claw for Wolf Guard. In fact, I don't put anything but powerfists on my WG that join other squads.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

In general if you're taking a power fist/thunder hammer (and why wouldn't you?) on a Wolf Guard take a storm bolter as well. The extra range and shooting is always good.

 

That said I tend to use power fists and bolt pistols together because I already have the models and they don't involve me having to pay extra points.

[lordsloth]

You forgot about powerfists, which I'd put in above dual wolf claw for Wolf Guard. In fact, I don't put anything but powerfists on my WG that join other squads.

 

Not so much forget as purposefully not include. Power fists are great (I prefer them on wolf guard squad leaders over almost anything else) but serve a completely different purpose than power weapons and the better variants thereof. Sometimes you want speed, sometimes you want strength. My rating of frost axes and lightning claws was merely to represent the 'speed' portion of affairs. I find it hard to compare fists/hammers to them because its very situational which one is better, so i dont bother :ph34r:

 

For example, on things that are hidden (like wg squad leaders) power fists are great because they present a threat to everything from a lowly human to a big carnifex. And because they are not directly targettable, this works fine.

 

On an IC however, I would almost never stick an I1 weapon.

 

In ragnar squads as well, I would only take power fists grudgingly as the furious charge initiative bonus is hard to give up, especially in meq vs meq scenarios.

 

It all comes down to "will my power fist survive long enough to do its damage" on wether or not it is better or worse than an initiative powered weapon.

[Grey Mage]

Id say the best combination with a PF is probly a combi-weapon if your not using just the cheap BP shot. Because most people who use them are doing so in transports... and it helps mitigate the missing firepower a bit.

[Wildfire]

In general if you're taking a power fist/thunder hammer (and why wouldn't you?) on a Wolf Guard take a storm bolter as well. The extra range and shooting is always good.

 

I totally disagree. I would never spend points on a storm bolter. I either go with nothing or a combi-weapon.

 

Not so much forget as purposefully not include. Power fists are great (I prefer them on wolf guard squad leaders over almost anything else) but serve a completely different purpose than power weapons and the better variants thereof. Sometimes you want speed, sometimes you want strength. My rating of frost axes and lightning claws was merely to represent the 'speed' portion of affairs. I find it hard to compare fists/hammers to them because its very situational which one is better, so i dont bother ;)

 

For example, on things that are hidden (like wg squad leaders) power fists are great because they present a threat to everything from a lowly human to a big carnifex. And because they are not directly targettable, this works fine.

 

On an IC however, I would almost never stick an I1 weapon.

 

In ragnar squads as well, I would only take power fists grudgingly as the furious charge initiative bonus is hard to give up, especially in meq vs meq scenarios.

 

It all comes down to "will my power fist survive long enough to do its damage" on wether or not it is better or worse than an initiative powered weapon.

 

I'd disagree with this. I don't feel it's situational. I would almost always want at least one powerfist in every squad. Generally this is on the WG, because he has the most attacks.

[ironking]

Im not a huge fan of PF's for the low I and high cost (TH are the same) and I've always been of the opinion - who hits first, lives longest.

 

WG with Frost Weapon and Bolt Pistol = 3 S5 power weapon attacks - thats awesome in my mind. I am also loath to let any of my wolves die.

 

With regard to my upcoming Nid assault - I will be including possibly 2 long fang squads with ML's - they did so well. I will also pull in the Whirlwind.

 

My opponent is a HUGE fan of fielding thousands of smaller nids and then 2 or 3 warriors (for synapse) a Lictor for wetwork and the huge nasty flying bug that shoots a thousand shots across the board and rerolls to hit and to wound.

 

My WP & Skyclaws will harass him until my RP can get within JotWW range - will also use LL which is very useful - just wish it was a template based attack - otherwise I will go for one of the storm powers than require his units in range to take saves every round...

 

While its unlikely I will run a Lone Wolf - I will definitely be modding one up for the fun and fluff of it.

[ChainsawDR]

Im not a huge fan of PF's for the low I and high cost (TH are the same) and I've always been of the opinion - who hits first, lives longest.

 

Sorry I have to disagree here - yes against any form of infantry this is almost always good, but there is nothing worse than having your 200pt GH squad with power weapon/Wolf claws being able to do virtually nothing to a Dred (a FB having a slim-to-none chance, and grenades needing a 6 to first of all hit, then another 6 to penetrate!).

 

I always have one PF in every GH squad, otherwise they get tied up not being able to hurt a Dred, and not being able to leave combat at any point - ever. When this does happen, and believe me IT HAPPENS, you can't shoot your low AP weapons at it because its locked in combat - the ONLY thing you can do is send over a PF/TH model into the combat.

 

I learnt that lesson painfully and was lucky to salvage a draw from that game, now I include a PF in each squad, be it GH, blood claws, skyclaws or swiftclaws.

[ironking]

mmm.

 

I'll take it under advisement.

 

Looks like I will need another box of wolves to make up some PF units - that or magnetize some.

 

I suppose if im up against the orks the deff dreads / kans could be an issue - but then, thats what my Long Fang + WG in TDA with CML are for - 7 missiles tend to hurt most things.

If im up against the GK's there is a small chance they will field a dread, however my opponent favors his Stern led Term squad of awesome killiness!

If its nids - im clueless as is he with the new dex out - but i believe there is all manner of foulness lurking in the shadowy depths of the niddex.

 

There are also the melta's in each of my GH squads and my skyclaws (which I might leave out - or take a 2nd squad with meltabombs and melta for tank hunting).

 

I guess 1st prize is not letting a dread or otherwise armored unit get into cc with you - however as I am a hugely inexperienced player I am happy to take your advice.

[ChainsawDR]

you do make a good point - Long Fangs should take them out, and so should meltas. But remember that Meltas have to be within 12" or 6" for the 2D6 (aka Charge range for a Dred). If your single melta shot misses then you are going to get charged, your squad is going to die, and there's not a single thing you can do about it unless you have a Fist or hammer on the table to try and help them out.