JamesI Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Personally it makes no sense to me that Ragnar gets furious charge on a counter attack but does not get the +d3 attacks rather than the +1 counterattack bonus. It should be neither or both. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2238818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ominous Anonymous Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 OBEL is not a special rule. It is just how our scouts deploy when they use their normal outflank. If you attached a WGBL to a scout pack in reserves and the scout pack decides to outflank, then the WGBL would use the OBEL rule with them. You are rolling the reserve roll to outlfank with the scout unit and the IC is attached to the outflanking unit because he has the saga. Does a WGBL have the OBEL rule, though? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2238853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonwolf Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 OBEL is not a special rule. It is just how our scouts deploy when they use their normal outflank. If you attached a WGBL to a scout pack in reserves and the scout pack decides to outflank, then the WGBL would use the OBEL rule with them. You are rolling the reserve roll to outlfank with the scout unit and the IC is attached to the outflanking unit because he has the saga. Does a WGBL have the OBEL rule, though? No, but they can take Saga of the Hunter which gives them Outflank. I think that's where the big question came in and basically, at least from my understanding, since the WGBL is an independant character they would have to take SotH if they wanted to join a Scout squad, but then the whole squad would have to use the regular Outflank rules instead of the Scout's BEL rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2238858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 the only thing i was really waiting on was the hq in tda and frost weapons, which has been answered (i think to many of us that are a little longer in the tooth, call and asked if they left it out... atleast i did). the rest was basically how i saw things, a couple of "ok' momments. i also like how long it is. maybe i haven't looked at many other armies FAQs but most of the ones i had/have are 2 pages. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2238860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niiai Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Yeah, it is long. But I think the author went out of his way to make it cool for us. It feels realy unique (as I think the IG did, and I think the nids will feel like) so that is cool. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2238863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ominous Anonymous Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 No, but they can take Saga of the Hunter which gives them Outflank. I think that's where the big question came in and basically, at least from my understanding, since the WGBL is an independant character they would have to take SotH if they wanted to join a Scout squad, but then the whole squad would have to use the regular Outflank rules instead of the Scout's BEL rule. Well, technically there's nothing keeping an IC from joining a scout squad, but to outflank with them will require SotH, and would be unable to use OBEL at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2238882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgambit Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I'm not sure why so many of you think that our WGBL with SotH can't OBEL. Let's take a normal HQ with a tactical squad. - Does the HQ buy a drop pod? NO - Do you attach the HQ to a unit that is taking a drop pod? YES - Do you make a seperate roll for the unit and the HQ to come into play from reserves if they are attached? NO The HQ is part of the unit when the reserve roll is made and enters play with the unit in the drop pod. The same thing applies to our HQ with Saga of the Hunter. He is an IC that joins a scout squad. Both squads possess outflank and as per the new FAQ they are allowed to outflank together. Just like the above example, you declare the scout squad is coming in from reserves with outflank, at that point you roll using the OBEL rule and the IC attached to the scouts enters play with them, just like an HQ attached to a unit in a drop pod. OBEL is just the way our scouts enter play when using outflank and the IC is attached to them via his own outflank rule. Now, if you wanted to outflank the IC without attaching him to a scout squad, you would then make a seperate roll for him and he would have to use the standard outflanking because he is not part of the scout unit. You wouldn't deny someone the ability to attach an HQ to a tactical squad in a drop pod because the HQ doesn't have the "drop pod" option listed under his profile, it's the same with our guy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2238892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ominous Anonymous Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 That's because the Tactical squad doesn't have a rule like "Drop Pod Shenanigans" that an HQ is lacking, though. :ph34r: You're trying to walk on water here, man, and you're floundering. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2238902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Nothing was answered on that question, as it stands both sides have the same argument as before. I do like your argument line rodgambit, but will still take a revision to convince me either way. Still a house rule or up to the club/store/organization to decide. Vrox. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2238911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgambit Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I sent an email to GW using their "contact us" address. We should all do the same so that they hopefully add that bit sooner than later. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2238917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ominous Anonymous Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Eldar joins a squad of Howling Banshees. During the Shooting Phase, they run, and attempt to Assault afterwards because the Banshee squad has the "Fleet" ability. Tell me why this doesn't work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2238929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Nothing was answered on that question, as it stands both sides have the same argument as before. I do like your argument line rodgambit, but will still take a revision to convince me either way. Still a house rule or up to the club/store/organization to decide. Vrox. You guys should check out the "LotD and attached Librarian" thread in the OR - the argument is essentially the same. You can see decent for and against thoughts. Ominious- that situation you listed (I assume you meant eldar IC without fleet? since Eldar joining a banshee squad doesnt relaly make sense). In that case they lose it because its specified to be lost in the USR section. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2238940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 Sorry I forgot to put the link in. Thanks Dark Bjoern and Requition for the link. I thought everybody knew about it and forgot to post it. No wunder I couldn't find any posts releating to the new FAQ. It must have just came out and I didn't know it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2238952 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I just saw that SW got an FAQ now for the 5th edtion codex. So did it answer all your quesitons? I am shocked for a new codex that there is 6 pages. Was there that many mistakes made or just written poorly? Is there still some rules that are not covered in the FAQ that should have been in there? Just curious too see what you guys think. Its perfect. The only thing I disagree with and/or embrace is Ragnar granting furious charge on the counter attack. Now I get to see what hornets nests this has stirred up while I was out. I leave the fang for 8 hours and everyones fightin again- without me! And I say that if an IC outflanks with scouts you roll on the OBEL chart, not the standard one, because the OBEL rule modifies the chart used. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2238958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ominous Anonymous Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Ominious- that situation you listed (I assume you meant eldar IC without fleet? since Eldar joining a banshee squad doesnt relaly make sense). In that case they lose it because its specified to be lost in the USR section. Yea, Eldrad doesn't share the squad's special rule, and as a result the entire squad cannot make use the special rule. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2238964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Ominious- that situation you listed (I assume you meant eldar IC without fleet? since Eldar joining a banshee squad doesnt relaly make sense). In that case they lose it because its specified to be lost in the USR section. Yea, Eldrad doesn't share the squad's special rule, and as a result the entire squad cannot make use the special rule. :P No need to bold anything- Eldrad doesnt share the squads special rule. Full stop. Your conclusion does not follow from the premise alone. The entire squad cannot make use of the special rule simply because we are told we cannot make use of that rule in that situation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2238978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Personally it makes no sense to me that Ragnar gets furious charge on a counter attack but does not get the +d3 attacks rather than the +1 counterattack bonus. It should be neither or both. The line of logic I think they're following is - Counter Attack says you get 1 attack, which they feel seems to supersede the blood claws +2 and Ragnar's D3 during a regular assault. - They also feel the "exactly as if you assaulted," has merit as a game benefit instead of just being a justification. So Furious Charge is okay. - And "oh by the way, defensive grenades don't work with CA, don't be ridiculous." that said, I think this is a bizarre interpretation of Counter Attack, but I'll happily take it as a "final word" in games I play with Ragnar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2238997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ominous Anonymous Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 No need to bold anything- Eldrad doesnt share the squads special rule. Full stop.Your conclusion does not follow from the premise alone. The entire squad cannot make use of the special rule simply because we are told we cannot make use of that rule in that situation. Sorry, was going for emphasis but admittedly was too heavy-handed about it. :P But the premise of my argument is the same: unless an IC with SotH can outflank in the same fashion as the Scouts, he can't join them in an OBEL. BEL doesn't just change the results of an outflank, it's a separate move altogether. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2239008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 No, its not. Its a change in the table that is used for outflank, as they must outflank to do so. However, I think it should be noted that in reserves you can attach an IC to a unit- and then you roll for the unit. This would seem to be the same thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2239016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilmerlin Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Regarding the Thunderwolf Mounts, since the +1 Toughness is now ruled to be be T5 for the Wolf Lord, would that also mean that he is a straight up S5 and would generate S10 Powerfist/Thunderhammer hits? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2239017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Yes, I think that that would follow evilmerlin, as it states the adjustments are directly to the base statline... so 5x2=10, as opposed to 4x2+1=9. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2239018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ominous Anonymous Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 TWM + Power Fist = S10, I agree No, its not. Its a change in the table that is used for outflank, as they must outflank to do so. The rule specifies a Wolf Scout squad in particular, without mention of an attached IC's ability to outflank. RaW says that unless an IC is given the OBEL special rule, he cannot join a Wolf Scout squad in using the modified roll, and at most both IC and squad would be able to Outflank normally thanks to both of them having the Infiltrate special rule. RaP (Ruled as Precedented) would say the same thing with regards to the Fleet example. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2239031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Nah, fleet is covered under the "move at the slowest speed" rule, and since one model cant move at all in the assault phase, the rest are stuck too. As it is, this is a bit of a grey area still... since it doesnt cover ICs in here. OBEL isnt an optional rule, if you use outflank you OBEL. Thus, I feel that ICs would be bound to it aswell if they are attached to the unit, as you roll for the unit as a whole when it comes to reserves, that much is clear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2239035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ominous Anonymous Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Just doesn't feel right, though. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2239039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Just doesn't feel right, though. ^_^ There are other examples though- like a command squad giving a captain FNP as an example. But its a grey area... Im not going to hunt you down for playing it differently than I do.... or will I? :P Seriously though, its cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189118-so-did-the-sw-faq-answer-your-questions/page/3/#findComment-2239049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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